Why do so many people think Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan was good?

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Cold Fusion was the power source for the device, not the method that it used to freeze lava.

Why doesn't anybody stop to think about that? It just seems really obvious to me.
 
I admit it was poorly written, as a lot of people in the audience would think that cold fusion would mean "a method of freezing lava" without knowing any better. But I would still like to give the benefit of the doubt that cold fusion device simply refers to it's power source.
 
I admit it was poorly written, as a lot of people in the audience would think that cold fusion would mean "a method of freezing lava" without knowing any better. But I would still like to give the benefit of the doubt that cold fusion device simply refers to it's power source.

WIth that way of thinking, we should call a TV remote a battery.

Also, that was no cold fusion device. It was an unlicensed nuclear accelerator.
 
Also, that was no cold fusion device. It was an unlicensed nuclear accelerator.

ghostbusters_elevator.PNG


:lol
 
WIth that way of thinking, we should call a TV remote a battery.

Or maybe... just maybe... we could pay it no mind. You know... Like Saavik crying, or Starfleet being the military, or forgetting to beam the Genesis device off the Reliant, or mistaking one planet for another.


Kevin
 
Or maybe... just maybe... we could pay it no mind. You know... Like Saavik crying

Why would we want to pay that no mind? I supposed we should pay this no mind as well?

emotionalspock_zpsb5752531.jpg


I actually find these two characters showing emotion to be a nice parallel. Both are not fully human, but as Spock says, nobody's perfect.
 
Didn't they mention they could try to beam over and deactivate it but David said it was too late?

Yup. Kirk wanted to "beam aboard and stop it" (meaning turn it off). David replied "you can't." So Kirk tells Scotty they need warp drive or they're all dead.

Nothing to indicate beaming was unavailable, they just didn't think of it.

But who cares right? "Not" trying to beam Genesis off the Reliant gave us one of the best death scenes on film!

If anything (if there "has" to be an answer) I atribute it to human error... Even though Spock isn't human and didn't think of it either. ;)

It simply is case of the writers "not thinking of everything." I'll give them that they tried- David says that Genesis is on a build up to detonation and Kirk could have just went right to telling Scotty about the warp drive (without even mentioning beaming over)...

But the writers "tried" to think that someone might ask "why didn't they just beam over and turn it off?" And so Kirk has his "let's beam over line". But the writers didn't think to kill two birds with one stone by stating you "couldn't beam over", they just said you couldn't turn it off.

But like I said, I can live with the writing flub because I like this movie.


Kevin
 
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Why would we want to pay that no mind? I supposed we should pay this no mind as well?

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/lordJeyl/emotionalspock_zpsb5752531.jpg

I actually find these two characters showing emotion to be a nice parallel. Both are not fully human, but as Spock says, nobody's perfect.

Pretty neat how you left the rest of my post out to focus on one thing to counter argue... which has absolutely nothing to do with the point of my arguement. But I expect no less from you.


Kevin
 
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Pretty neat how you left the rest of my post out to focus on one thing to counter argue...which has absolutely nothing to do with the point of my arguement. But I expect no less from you.

And I thought the whole point of this thread was to showcase how little things like this don't bother you. I mean, Michael Bergeron and Bryancd were the first to talk about only one thing from that same response. Your response to them was a nice discussion piece, where as when I try to explain one of your points with a bit more explanation on how it fits into the overall narrative, you decide to mock me instead of discussing it. TWOK's story may not be dictated by flaws, but your responses certainly are.
 
Listen carefully to how I explain this:

My arguement in that post was that we should maybe pay the "cold fusion device" in STID no mind- just like we "already" pay the flaws in ST:II no mind.

Your counter arguement was not about what I was saying but rather (as usual) substituting a weaker arguement in its place that you then argue against.

Please look up Straw Man arguement once and for all and try to understand why I as well as others have difficulty having a discussion with you. Contrary to everything you might believe, we are not the problem.


Kevin
 
So beaming it off the Reliant wouldn't have solved their problem, they would still be in close proximity as transwarp being didn't exist.
 
Good point.

The series has shown that they could beam something far enough away if it threatened the ship (such as Nomad exploding). So the question now becomes: could they beam it far enough away that the creation of an entire planet would not affect the ship?

I guess that depends on the size of Genesis, and exactly how far away are they able to beam something.

According to Mr Scott's Guide to the Enterprise (because I'm pretty sure there is no mention of the maximum range of the transporters in the first two films or the series... so we really have nothing else to go on for reference) the maximum safe range is 19,500 miles or 31,200 kilometers.

The transporter would allow them to beam Genesis over 31,000km away. And while getting away the Enterprise had travel 4,000km at impulse. So say at best they could put 36,000km bewteen themselves and the explosion.

How big was Genesis? Again there is no mention of it in the films, so going on that it appears to at least have the same gravity of Earth, let's say it is about the same size which is 12,742km. How about making it easy and rounding it up to 13,000.

So really they would only have to escape half that distance because they would need to be outside of half the diameter, but let's say to avoid any debris or the shockwave itself, they would have to travel twice that distance- 26,000km.

Exvept there is no real way to know what the "safe" distance truly was, AND the transporters were not working at optimum capacity. Scotty said he "barely" had transporter power before Kirk and company beamed down to Regula, and they had only restored partial main power when they returned.

Maybe they "could" have beamed it far enough away, but it is just as likely that they could not have, and the risk would be too great if they were wrong.

So going on this... I would say that Bryan and Michael are right that "not attempting" to beam Genesis off the Reliant, and concentrating on restoring warp drive "was" the right descision by Kirk!

**** that's awesome! :D


Kevin
 
My arguement in that post was that we should maybe pay the "cold fusion device" in STID no mind- just like we "already" pay the flaws in ST:II no mind.

"Pay no mind"

Did it ever occur to you that the reason I only picked that one point about Saavik crying was because that scene was actually written, planned out and shot the way it was because it's actually about something? If you love JJ's new take on Star Trek so much, two films that have Vulcans acting emotional all the time, why are you treating Saavik's scene as though it's a flaw? If you're going to bring up Saavik acting emotional at Spock's funeral, why didn't you bring up Spock acting emotional at the sight of Scotty holding his dying nephew? Maybe the film makers understood that Vulcans do have emotions and that there are instances where they cannot control them. It happened in the original series, and it happened in the movies.

These two instances are not flaws that should be overlooked. They're actual character moments that need to be understood.
 
You truly have no idea what I mean, when I say that having a discussion with you is an excercise in frustration do you?

You are arguing against something I wasn't arguing about. That is every post you make in a nutshell. :thumbsdown


Kevin
 
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