That makes no sense. Otherwise there was no reason to get rid of the original EU if they were going to pick and choose.
STAR WARS Rebels new animated series!
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That makes no sense. Otherwise there was no reason to get rid of the original EU if they were going to pick and choose.
i believe it was season 4 episodes 22-21-20-19. obiwan fakes his death and takes the form of the murder and gets arrested to find out the master mind behind the assassination attempt on the chancellor. i think there was 2 or 3 episodes with him wearing this helmet
What made me even happier was how the man was introduced: "Rako Hardeen, the marksman from Concord Dawn." Dave Filoni really is on the side of the fans.
As for canon... *sigh* The old EU isn't gone, so much as in abeyance. They are picking and choosing. For instance, the new issue of the comic has Luke reading Obi-Wan's journal, specifically an incident during his hermitage on Tatooine that takes place after and dovetails so perfectly with the currently-Legends novel Kenobi that I can't believe it wasn't deliberate -- and hopefully indicative of said novel being moved over to canon after the Story Group finishes deliberating. It was one of the last pre-EU-nullifying-announcement books written, and thus already had the Story Group ensure its fit.
I'm just really, really surprised that's not extending to games, when they'd said it would...
--Jonah
As for canon... *sigh* The old EU isn't gone, so much as in abeyance. They are picking and choosing. For instance, the new issue of the comic has Luke reading Obi-Wan's journal, specifically an incident during his hermitage on Tatooine that takes place after and dovetails so perfectly with the currently-Legends novel Kenobi that I can't believe it wasn't deliberate -- and hopefully indicative of said novel being moved over to canon after the Story Group finishes deliberating. It was one of the last pre-EU-nullifying-announcement books written, and thus already had the Story Group ensure its fit.
I'm just really, really surprised that's not extending to games, when they'd said it would...
--Jonah
maybe you can help me, though its alittle off topic. while watching those videos of kenobi under cover when ever he called yoda and windu he refereed to himself as "ben" was this code name given to him? i dont remember them talking about it. i was curious if his middle name was always ben, or if it was a code name in jail so if anyone over heard the conversation they were covered
if so this explains how he carries over the ben name while in hidding
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
First of all, the old EU is not "gone", it's simply "no longer canon". All those books, comics, etc... Are still being sold but the reprints are now under the "Legendary" label indicating they are the old and now non-canon EU.
And it is not "picking and choosing." You have to compartmentalize. While stories ( books, comics, series) are products, not all products are stories. Unless the item is question is in a story, it's not yet canon. For instance, a Japanese toy company are making Star Wars figures like vader and troopers in samurai stylized armor. Are you insisting that because such an item is allowed to be released, that item is now canon? Where does the line get drawn? Is my Star Wars lounge pants now canon? Does the fact that a Lego Han Solo has no knees mean that the character has no knees? Does the Star Wars poster with characters standing in front of a giant Vader head in the background now mean that Vader's head is actually 20ft tall and without a body?
Did you really think that Star Wars Angry Birds was part of the old canon? Even in the old EU, stories came out that were never part of the canon, such as the Infinity comic series, and continuing reprinting and comic release of Splinters of the Mind's Eye and games like Masters of Teräs Käsi.
astroboy
Master Member
Awesome! I didn't even notice that. That was a great arc. Lots of fun and some great tension with anakin
Infinities and Legends make it plain on the package that they're not part of the canon. Splinter has always been problematic (I'm hoping for an anniversary tweaking of it by ADF and the Story Group, where most of it happens as shown, but the confrontation with Vader is a tangible Force-vision, a la what happened to Luke on Dagobah). Lego and the Hasbro action figures are representations of elements from the story (although the Yoda Chronicles are problematic). Masters of Teras Kasi and the miniatures games are non-story out-of-narrative representations of elements from within the story, and as such are presumed to reflect the canon story they are derived from. Since there's nothing on X-Wing that says "Legends", and is being published post-reset, the presumption that can be derived from that is that any ships/pilots that FFG haven't pulled are from the canon. *shrug*
--Jonah
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
So you're basically saying that if my Falcon gets destroyed in battle during the game, that is now canon? Of course you're not saying that because that would be stupid. It's stupid because the FFG is not a story. It has nothing to do with the story of Star Wars. When we speak of canon, we are talking about story. Now at some point those ships might be reintroduced into the story/canon but until the items turn up in the new comics, series, movies or novels, it is not canon.
Riceball
Master Member
I don't think that's what IP is trying to say, what he's trying to say is that things like the games, while not themselves canon, are derived from the canon so the various characters and vessels seen in the games, esp. X-Wing, are canon. So you're using canon elements to create non-canon events.
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
I know, I am just trying to make a point. The key point is; When we speak of canon, we are talking about story.
And the things and people that appear during it. If the Dark Horse comics (except Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir) are Legends, and so is the Star Wars: Galaxies MMORPG, then FFG should have pulled the Imperial Aces 2-pack, as the 181st, Soontir Fel, Kir Kanos, and the red-painted Royal Guard TIE Interceptor are elements from those stories and haven't appeared in the new canon. By having them and Keiyan Farlander and Tycho Celchu and the HWK-290 and so forth alongside ships and pilots that are definitively from the canon -- including the new stuff from Rebels -- the implication is that those other elements are canon, too. Hence this whole sidebar.
--Jonah
--Jonah
Riceball
Master Member
I think that the X-Wing game now occupies a weird grey area where it has both canon and Legends elements in it due to the fact that it came out (I think) before the whole EU being declared non-canon. I imagine that going forward it's only going to be pulling from elements that have been declared to be officially canon in order to avoid confusion amongst fans, assuming that most players of the game actually care one way or another if their piece or character card is canon or not; I imagine that most players aren't going to care, all they're going to care about is how a given piece or card affects the game, whether it's useful, OP, or plain useless.
Pretty much. But it's a point of confusion Lucasfilm could have easily rectified by having FFG pull the Legends content. Yes, that's difficult and expensive, and some compensation would have to go around, but a minor expense, in my opinion, to retain the full viability of a currently-published resource. Or at least publish an errata booklet saying which pilots and ships are "Legends" until further notice, should people want to play canon-only games. That'd be far cheaper.
And on top of that, when the Story Group gets round to canonizing Baron Fel and the 181st and the Royal Guard TIE Interceptor, they'll already be in existence.
--Jonah
And on top of that, when the Story Group gets round to canonizing Baron Fel and the 181st and the Royal Guard TIE Interceptor, they'll already be in existence.
--Jonah
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
But FFG games are not story and therefore do not require a Legends or Canon status.
I am not sure why a product like a game piece is all the sudden a target for canon conversation. Whenever someone here is in debate about a story element and they state a canon reference, no one ever says, "Well this action figure..." or "If you look at this snaptite model.." It's usually a movie, episode, novel, or comic... You know... story materials. Because once again.... When we speak of canon, we are talking about story.
Lastly, I think the biggest reason for these debates is that there are some people who are just holding onto old EU elements so tight, they look for any reason to argue it is now canon.
Honestly, I just don't see why people are not understanding this concept. It seems pretty straight forward,
I am not sure why a product like a game piece is all the sudden a target for canon conversation. Whenever someone here is in debate about a story element and they state a canon reference, no one ever says, "Well this action figure..." or "If you look at this snaptite model.." It's usually a movie, episode, novel, or comic... You know... story materials. Because once again.... When we speak of canon, we are talking about story.
Lastly, I think the biggest reason for these debates is that there are some people who are just holding onto old EU elements so tight, they look for any reason to argue it is now canon.
Honestly, I just don't see why people are not understanding this concept. It seems pretty straight forward,
So if you took away the spaceships and people, how you gonna tell that story?
I was just having a conversation with a friend earlier today about the August plate for the 2015 Star Trek Ships of the Line calendar. It's a piece showing the Enterprise-A and Reliant in a joint operation some several years after the events of Star Trek II. He did a similar piece with those ships in last year's calendar, stating it was n alternate timeline showing the ships in cooperation rather than combat. Except it doesn't work. The only reason there was an Enterprise-A was to honor Kirk who had just saved the Earth in a Romulan Bird-of-Prey he'd commandeered from the Klingons who'd stolen it, after he'd been forced to destroy the refit original Enterprise to defeat the Klingons who had only been able to damage it that badly because it had been cripplingly damaged by the Reliant earlier when Khan had hijacked the latter and Spock had died in the process of keeping the Enterprise from being destroyed, which was why Kirk was there to retrieve his body in the first place and not on Earth to be as helpless as everyone else when the Whalesong Probe showed up. Too many interwoven threads. Unless the artist intended Khan to hijack some other ship, but that wasn't his premise.
All the probably-Legends content of the X-Wing game is story-relevant. Baron Fel was one of the best Imperial pilots and his group the only one that could consistently stand up to the Rebellion's pilots. Plus, he was married to Wedge's sister. And later defected to the Rebels, himself. The HWK-290 owes its existence to Dark Forces, and that class of ship hasn't been shown in any canon source yet. I'm not saying because the miniature of the basic ship class is in the game that Kyle Katarn and the Moldy Crow and all the events of that game (and maybe its sequels) took place in canon, but the ship class is a story element. I don't see how you're trying to divorce story from the people, places, and things used to tell it. Similarly, I'm not seeing how a game containing canon elements but not telling a canon story is so hard to understand.
--Jonah
I was just having a conversation with a friend earlier today about the August plate for the 2015 Star Trek Ships of the Line calendar. It's a piece showing the Enterprise-A and Reliant in a joint operation some several years after the events of Star Trek II. He did a similar piece with those ships in last year's calendar, stating it was n alternate timeline showing the ships in cooperation rather than combat. Except it doesn't work. The only reason there was an Enterprise-A was to honor Kirk who had just saved the Earth in a Romulan Bird-of-Prey he'd commandeered from the Klingons who'd stolen it, after he'd been forced to destroy the refit original Enterprise to defeat the Klingons who had only been able to damage it that badly because it had been cripplingly damaged by the Reliant earlier when Khan had hijacked the latter and Spock had died in the process of keeping the Enterprise from being destroyed, which was why Kirk was there to retrieve his body in the first place and not on Earth to be as helpless as everyone else when the Whalesong Probe showed up. Too many interwoven threads. Unless the artist intended Khan to hijack some other ship, but that wasn't his premise.
All the probably-Legends content of the X-Wing game is story-relevant. Baron Fel was one of the best Imperial pilots and his group the only one that could consistently stand up to the Rebellion's pilots. Plus, he was married to Wedge's sister. And later defected to the Rebels, himself. The HWK-290 owes its existence to Dark Forces, and that class of ship hasn't been shown in any canon source yet. I'm not saying because the miniature of the basic ship class is in the game that Kyle Katarn and the Moldy Crow and all the events of that game (and maybe its sequels) took place in canon, but the ship class is a story element. I don't see how you're trying to divorce story from the people, places, and things used to tell it. Similarly, I'm not seeing how a game containing canon elements but not telling a canon story is so hard to understand.
--Jonah
Mara Jade's Father
Master Member
Sorry, I found the old EU to be mostly crap. Too many authors going after the cool factor to lure in fan boys and make their own little mark on Star Wars. When Disney announced they bought the franchise and we're going to do new movies that included origin cast, I prayed that it would mean wiping out the EU. And they did and I was so very happy. It's gone and I could care less if any of it comes back. And if whatever does comeback, I hope it is used better in new stories.
Riceball
Master Member
So if you took away the spaceships and people, how you gonna tell that story?
I was just having a conversation with a friend earlier today about the August plate for the 2015 Star Trek Ships of the Line calendar. It's a piece showing the Enterprise-A and Reliant in a joint operation some several years after the events of Star Trek II. He did a similar piece with those ships in last year's calendar, stating it was n alternate timeline showing the ships in cooperation rather than combat. Except it doesn't work. The only reason there was an Enterprise-A was to honor Kirk who had just saved the Earth in a Romulan Bird-of-Prey he'd commandeered from the Klingons who'd stolen it, after he'd been forced to destroy the refit original Enterprise to defeat the Klingons who had only been able to damage it that badly because it had been cripplingly damaged by the Reliant earlier when Khan had hijacked the latter and Spock had died in the process of keeping the Enterprise from being destroyed, which was why Kirk was there to retrieve his body in the first place and not on Earth to be as helpless as everyone else when the Whalesong Probe showed up. Too many interwoven threads. Unless the artist intended Khan to hijack some other ship, but that wasn't his premise.
All the probably-Legends content of the X-Wing game is story-relevant. Baron Fel was one of the best Imperial pilots and his group the only one that could consistently stand up to the Rebellion's pilots. Plus, he was married to Wedge's sister. And later defected to the Rebels, himself. The HWK-290 owes its existence to Dark Forces, and that class of ship hasn't been shown in any canon source yet. I'm not saying because the miniature of the basic ship class is in the game that Kyle Katarn and the Moldy Crow and all the events of that game (and maybe its sequels) took place in canon, but the ship class is a story element. I don't see how you're trying to divorce story from the people, places, and things used to tell it. Similarly, I'm not seeing how a game containing canon elements but not telling a canon story is so hard to understand.
--Jonah
Thing is, it really doesn't matter much for the X-Wings game where it pulls elements from, like I said before, for most players whether something is canon or not isn't going to matter, all that matters is that the piece and its card work. It's definitely in FFG's interest to be able to pull from both established canon and Legends, it frees them from the same constraints that their Star Trek counterpart has in that they can only use ships and capabilities actually seen on screen along with named characters seen on said ships. By being able to pull from all sources FFG can greatly expand the number of ships and characters that they can utilize giving them virtually unlimited expansion set possibilities.
While pulling all Legends ships, characters, and abilities from the game is possible it would be a daunting task, I don't think that they're set up to determine what is and isn't currently canon. Furthermore, by doing so would only serve to **** off players since I don't think that any players are playing canon pure, or if there are it's only very few, While it won't matter one bit for your home game between you and your buddies, or the ad-hoc games at your local comic book/hobby shop it sure is going to matter for tournament play where players go in with pre-built fleets, by declaring only canon ships area allowed in tournament play you'd be forcing players to totally rework their fleet builds and probably really **** off a number of who have spent a lot of money buying non-canon ships that form a good part of their fleets. If canonicity becomes a factor the best thing for FFG to do would be to have the occasional canon pure tournament game where only canon pieces are allowed, sort of like the Star Trek game where they sometimes have faction pure games. The only problem with this is deciding what is and isn't canon without FFG releasing something stating which pieces are and which aren't canon.
OldKen
Master Member
Thank the maker!!!
Youshin vong?
Just the name alone screams Star Trek...
The stories...
Really nothing I really ever cared for.
Shadows of the empire was kinda cool. But I don't want Xixor as cannon either...
Youshin vong?
Just the name alone screams Star Trek...
The stories...
Really nothing I really ever cared for.
Shadows of the empire was kinda cool. But I don't want Xixor as cannon either...
What I meant, referring to the ships, is that I thought basic parts of those things would be made canon. Obviously if I played SW Battlefront and teabag Darth Vader that's not canon. I can't see why assets, like ships, planets, weapons, etc. in a game wouldn't become canon.
Other than the Republic Commando and X-Wing novels, I agree. Everything else was pretty crappy. I can guarantee you that nothing will change with the new books other than all the crap will rise to the top since it will be canon. You aren't going to be able to just ignore it like The Crystal Star (regarded as THE worst EU novel). There's no way to guarantee every book that comes out will be on par with the films. So when all the talking Disney bunny aliens are wrote into a book, which will happen, they will be the same level of canon as Luke...
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