How I Met Your Mother

Well yeah, a NDA which likely had a massive fine if they spoiled it would keep their traps shut. Lyndsy claimed previously to have forgotten what had been filmed.

Solo4114 said:

How I Met Your Mother Alternative Ending - YouTube

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This is the ending I'm going to keep permanently etched in my brain.

Same. I'm not sure if I'm going to count Barney and Robin's divorce in my head canon or not.

dascoyne said:

The show never fails with constructing insightfully poignant moments.
I trust the writers to concoct a satisfying closure to his relationship with Robin. Since it's a whole new season then almost anything is possible (possimpible?).
Maybe Ted is telling them this because his wife died many years ago (when they were babies?). Maybe he's been a single dad ... or married to Robin who is their stepmom after a divorce with Barney.

But then they call her "aunt Robin" so forget that latter part.

Or she's just divorcing Barney and he's explaining why he's hooking up with aunt Robin.

The more I think about it the more certain I am that the real mom dies.

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That was September 2013

I called it!!!

Solo4114 said:

Ted will not end up with Robin.

Period. End of story. It's NOT going to happen. I realize people can't see past this, but I'm hopeful that after tonight, we'll start to see a change in that.



Anyway, I went back and re-watched seasons 3-7 this summer, and I have to say that I'm in a considerably better frame of mind now. Also, more info has been revealed re: the direction of this season, and it's confirmed that we will indeed see much of the Mother and Ted together after they've met.

I do see SOME character growth with Ted, and I see the through-line of what had to change around him for him to change himself. Also, I have to say that I think in some ways the Ted-spinning-his-wheels thing is pretty true to life. Sometimes it takes a period of prolonged wheel-spinning before you have a great leap forward. Here's hoping that's what we see this season.

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Do you want 5 quick slaps now or 10 at random intervals?

dascoyne said:

That was September 2013

I called it!!!



Do you want 5 quick slaps now or 10 at random intervals?

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I've been thinking on this since Monday without leaving a comment. As a person who has followed this show since it first aired I have to admit that I've been displeased by the past 2+ seasons and I really didn't like the series finale. I don't have a problem with the plot near as much as I do the execution of it. I think there were many ways to better the plot they had written, and I think the fact that they'd executed it so poorly over this season really is what turned me off.

I suspect the ending would've been unsatisfying either way for me, but I think had they managed the plot and pacing and character development a lot better, it would at least have felt "earned."

Really, though, I think a lot of the problem stemmed from an attempt to tell a story that simultaneously was about Ted working towards this one shining moment where he found true love, while also selling us on the notion that he wanted to be with Robin. I don't think they found the balance -- and I question whether such a balance point exists -- between Ted finding his lebenslangerschicksalschatz and Ted realizing that the whole story was about him loving Robin.

And that's the problem. They lied about what the story was about. Bottom line. It was a bait and switch. Was it true to life? Poignantly real? Maybe. But even if it was....so ****ing what? The writers conned the audience and hid behind "Oh, but it's ART," as their justification for why it's ok to have spent 9 years BSing the audience.

I showed my girlfriend the video of the modified ending that was posted. Actually, I told her "Watch the episode, and when you get to the point where Lily toasts, pause it and watch this video instead. If you want to see the originally aired ending, then go back and watch it." She did as I suggested, and decided that the video version felt more natural, whereas the ending from the aired version felt very tacked on. I think that basically says it all.

Solo4114 said:

And that's the problem. They lied about what the story was about. Bottom line. It was a bait and switch. Was it true to life? Poignantly real? Maybe. But even if it was....so ****ing what? The writers conned the audience and hid behind "Oh, but it's ART," as their justification for why it's ok to have spent 9 years BSing the audience.

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My wife and I had a love/hate relationship with the last three seasons or so and probably only watched about half the episodes, often wondering why we were watching at all. We really didn't like what they'd done with Robin and Ted had just become a hapless schmuck. We somewhat reluctantly watched the finale and were pretty much sorry we did. For something that had been planned for so long it was executed poorly.

The only positive thing was they left out that the reason the wife got sick is because Ted slowly poisoned her after finding out Robin and Barney had filed for divorce. Then waited six years to pursue her, not out of guilt, but out of fear that it would look bad and might raise suspicions about how his otherwise healthy wife suddenly became ill.

Joosh said:

My wife and I had a love/hate relationship with the last three seasons or so and probably only watched about half the episodes, often wondering why we were watching at all. We really didn't like what they'd done with Robin and Ted had just become a hapless schmuck. We somewhat reluctantly watched the finale and were pretty much sorry we did. For something that had been planned for so long it was executed poorly.

The only positive thing was they left out that the reason the wife got sick is because Ted slowly poisoned her after finding out Robin and Barney had filed for divorce. Then waited six years to pursue her, not out of guilt, but out of fear that it would look bad and might raise suspicions about how his otherwise healthy wife suddenly became ill.

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So you're saying that all of his years in the Mosby Boys allowed him to compile a list of chemicals which would leave no evidence in a toxicology report, and would otherwise mimic the signs of degenerative illness. Sinister. Very sinister. And probably what happened.

All along, this wasn't a sitcom or a tale about love. It was a tale of obsession, madness, and murder. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

two days later... I still hate it.

I've been with my wife for over 10 years. She's the love of my life and I can't imagine my life without her. Any girl I met before her is like a faded memory in the corner of my mind that is blurry and hard to envision. That is the kind of love that we were sold on Ted finding. and he should have had that with the Mother, but then we're made to accept that 6 years after she dies, he can finally be happy with who he rally wanted to be with, the woman who dumped him and repeatedly told him she didn't love him.

Was it made clear whether Robin was still globetrotting in 2030? If she is then the hook-up between Ted and her is doomed since he can't go with due to the kids and there's no way they'd be able to maintain a long distance relationship. She got divorced rather than give up all that traveling, so there's no way she'd make that sacrifice for Ted.

Ted obviously never really got over Robin and lied to the kids about it so they wouldn't resent him for settling for Tracy. The problem is that Robin did get over Ted, but started to fancy him after her marriage fell apart exactly because he wasn't available anymore. They both have this rose-colored view of each other and the relationship that had failed repeatedly before. It's an attempt by the writers to let Ted have his cake and eat it too, but even in his propagandist tale to his kids painting Robin as the most awesome future stepmother ever they're clearly incompatible in the long term. In reality it's probably an even worse idea that he subtly admits when he's conning his kids.

Even leaving aside the problems I have with the story being a bait-and-switch, the last season was poorly handled. Rather than waste an entire season stalling to get to a wedding that's undone in 10 minutes spend no more than half the season on the wedding and the rest of it on the next 17 years to better build on what happened after the wedding. Spreading 56 hours of story over 22 episodes then 17 years over two is terrible pacing.

I think if you rewatch the series knowing the outcome you'll recognize that this was always a plausible.

In fact there were things about the story that never sat well with me until I saw where it was going.

I never got the sense Ted ever had absolute closure with Robin. It bothered me that he was wrestling with this still throughout the last season. Even when "closure" was represented it still seemed mysteriously unconvincing. I thought of many ways they could have done it better if they wanted Ted to have truly moved on. Now it makes sense to me.

I don't think that detracts from the relationship he had with his wife.

I also felt Barney also never achieved a perfect connection with Robin. Until the finale, "I will always be honest", seemed pretty weak sauce for a personal pledge. Now it makes sense.

If they had stretched out the events of the finale over several episodes it would quickly become predictable, and it would diminish the ultimate impact.

I always considered this as possible, and I never saw a completely compelling development that would eliminate it as a plausible outcome.

For me it works.


The breakneck pace of the finale did create problems, though. It was a little unnerving but I can't see how they could have done it otherwise.

Barney's bonding with his baby was a great idea, but the story never had enough time to sell it properly.

I think a better solution would have been either a two hour treatment or ... a feature film. I think a movie would have served the story best. But it still works for me.

dbuck said:

This is the ending I'm going to keep permanently etched in my brain.

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I'm right there with you. I am so going to show this to my wife.

I see it as the weiters trying to be smart and writing themselves into a corner. If this ending aired in like season 5, I would say it would have worked well. A unique twist on the sappy love story.

The problem is, the series went on much longer and we got so much more evidence that Robin/Ted was wrong. I like both characters but they are wrong for each other and Robin said she doesn't love Ted. In Platoonish, that episode was heartbreaking because Ted emotionally is in the gutter.

Now the writers dropped hints that there was something off near the end. Ted says he wants those extra 45 days in Time Travellers, he cries with the mother in Vesuvius. So something bad is implied. However, the mother figure is depicted as Ted's perfect partner and for all intents, she is the one (Christi did a great job).

Now Im not angered by the fact the mom died but ny Ted going back to Robin. We made alternate ending theories like the mom died and Ted is telling his kids the story, or is divorced and his kids tell him to try to get back together. A great one that came up was tjat Ted was suffering from early onset Alzheimers and wanted to tell the greatest love story before he forgot it (and would also explain the times he messes up the story and is an unreliable narrator). Going back to Robin undermines one of his major character growth arcs, letting go of the one that never was "the one."

Here's something I realized about the show.

The creators are good writers. The creators are not good storytellers.


They can write a compelling scene that makes you crack up or pulls at your heartstrings or any number of other things. But they have shown, particularly in the latter seasons, no facility for plotting or pacing or telling a story as a whole. HIMYM has had a whole range of amazing scenes. But HIMYM is not a particularly well-told story, regardless of whether one likes the eventual outcome or hates it.

The other thing that I've noticed about them is that they seem way more impressed with themselves and their ability to play with storytelling gimmicks like telling a story about an event from three different perspectives in a 22 minute bloc (e.g., The Burning Beekeeper), or layering stories upon stories (e.g., The Platinum Rule), or telling a story entirely in rhyme (e.g., Bedtime Stories), or telling a story in almost-real-time (e.g., Season 9). Frankly, gimmickry doesn't impress me in the slightest, but I gather it really impresses them or at least really entertains them. I actually found all of the examples above except The Platinum Rule to be some of the absolute worst episodes of the show because they were so clearly about just using the gimmick. Save that **** for your screenwriting class, pal, and don't waste my ****ing time.

To be fair to the writers, as Wes grads themselves they may have been inspired by Joss Whedon and his experiments with Buffy episodes. There was one that was completely in song in Buffy and HIMYM in a way does give a framework to experiment a little.

In terms of storytelling, it does make sense that the pacing can be off as each episode is a short story that Ted the narrator finds memorable. But I completely agree that the pacing was terrible. The early seasons had decent pacing with the threat of cancellation looming but the later seasons were really slow. Maybe they never expected Cristi to be so good but I would have preferred the wedding end mid season and the later half Ted getting to know the mother.

Given the huge amount of press on the finale, Im wondering if this was the right decision in terms of ratings.

Solo4114 said:

Here's something I realized about the show.

The creators are good writers. The creators are not good storytellers.


They can write a compelling scene that makes you crack up or pulls at your heartstrings or any number of other things. But they have shown, particularly in the latter seasons, no facility for plotting or pacing or telling a story as a whole. HIMYM has had a whole range of amazing scenes. But HIMYM is not a particularly well-told story, regardless of whether one likes the eventual outcome or hates it.

The other thing that I've noticed about them is that they seem way more impressed with themselves and their ability to play with storytelling gimmicks like telling a story about an event from three different perspectives in a 22 minute bloc (e.g., The Burning Beekeeper), or layering stories upon stories (e.g., The Platinum Rule), or telling a story entirely in rhyme (e.g., Bedtime Stories), or telling a story in almost-real-time (e.g., Season 9). Frankly, gimmickry doesn't impress me in the slightest, but I gather it really impresses them or at least really entertains them. I actually found all of the examples above except The Platinum Rule to be some of the absolute worst episodes of the show because they were so clearly about just using the gimmick. Save that **** for your screenwriting class, pal, and don't waste my ****ing time.

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I agree about the "gimmick-iness" but it seems that just about every long running sitcom inevitably dabbles in this. In that respect I've seen it done worse in other shows and I believed they showed sufficient restraint that I never felt it was going to jump the shark. I agree they're characteristically superfluous, but the strengths easily protect the integrity if HIMYM.

As you mention the writers are adept at constructing emotionally resonant moments. I believe if you wait a few months then watch the finale again you'll find does have that same quality. I don't think it takes away from the significance of the Tracy arc.

HeartBlade said:

To be fair to the writers, as Wes grads themselves they may have been inspired by Joss Whedon and his experiments with Buffy episodes. There was one that was completely in song in Buffy and HIMYM in a way does give a framework to experiment a little.

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The difference is that Joss' gimmicks work within the context of his narrative overall, and Joss' seasons were all very well structured. The song episode is the result of a demon arriving who makes everyone sing and dance like they're in a musical. The silent episode, Hush, was again because demons did it. When gimmicks were used, they were used in a way that made sense. Moreover, the show Joss was making could have ended at any single season without really feeling unfinished. Each season was an arc unto itself. And even when Buffy died in Season 5's finale, the death felt earned rather than "Wait, WTF?!" So, while the writers of HIMYM might've been inspired by Joss' work, they certainly weren't up to the task of replicating it.

In terms of storytelling, it does make sense that the pacing can be off as each episode is a short story that Ted the narrator finds memorable. But I completely agree that the pacing was terrible. The early seasons had decent pacing with the threat of cancellation looming but the later seasons were really slow. Maybe they never expected Cristi to be so good but I would have preferred the wedding end mid season and the later half Ted getting to know the mother.

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In the universe of the show, sure it makes sense that Ted tells a story he thinks is meaningful for whatever reason. But we don't live in the universe of the show. the show is supposed to be telling a story, and it's one that I think the show ultimately did not tell particularly well. Pacing and plotting matter. Josh Radnor pointed out the "in-universe vs. audience" experience in a post-finale interview, where he discussed how the kids' reaction made sense...in-universe. But for the audience, there was, what, 30 seconds between finding out the mother died and the kids being like "Go for it!"

The writers committed one of the cardinal sins of screenwriting: they told; they did not show. You can't build up 9 seasons of "moving towards meeting the Mother," have them meet, and then a few scant minutes after inform the audience that (a) she died, and (b) the kids are fine with it, and (c) Ted and Robin have been hanging out for years after so Ted should go for her. You certainly can't do that just by having the kids say "You've done all these things for years off-screen, so go for Robin!"

I mean, this is basic, basic stuff here. You have to show that happen. You have to give the audience time to process it and make sense of it. Unless you're trying to shoehorn a twist-ending in for the sake of a twist-ending (again, gimmickry), you just don't do that. It's bad storytelling, plain and simple.

Given the huge amount of press on the finale, Im wondering if this was the right decision in terms of ratings.

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Ratings for the finale? I don't think it mattered much, except perhaps on the West coast. But as far as the success of HIMYD? That show is DOA, I'd bet. As pissed as a significant portion of the fan base is, I doubt very much that they're up for another go at a similar story.

dascoyne said:

I agree about the "gimmick-iness" but it seems that just about every long running sitcom inevitably dabbles in this. In that respect I've seen it done worse in other shows and I believed they showed sufficient restraint that I never felt it was going to jump the shark. I agree they're characteristically superfluous, but the strengths easily protect the integrity if HIMYM.

As you mention the writers are adept at constructing emotionally resonant moments. I believe if you wait a few months then watch the finale again you'll find does have that same quality. I don't think it takes away from the significance of the Tracy arc.

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I'm not gonna bother to re-watch it. I have no desire to watch HIMYM at this point. Like, at all. Not even the older stuff. Endings matter. They matter a LOT to me, probably more than many people. An ending, for me, colors my view of the work as a whole. And when the ending . I think the real problem is that they had major structural issues with their story. The gimmickry for me is less of a problem with individual episodes here and there, but it's really a problem in the larger sense of how the narrative was often misserved by the decision to "challenge themselves" with gimmick episodes, or in the case of Season 9, a gimmick season. Or, I suppose, in the case of the entire narrative of the show itself, a gimmick story where "Surprise!! She's dead!! Aren't we so CLEVER?!"

I think the end result -- with the Mother dead, Barney and Robin divorced, and Ted and Robin together -- could have worked if it had been developed better, but that would require a huge rewrite of, basically the last 2-3 seasons.


Really, I think a huge problem with the show, particularly by Season 7 and beyond, came because the writers were trying to do two things at once.

1. They were trying to tell the story of how Ted grew to be the guy who could fall in love with the Mother.

2. They were trying to tell the story of how Future Ted has been in love with Robin.

Those two goals are diametrically opposed to each other, because narratively speaking, they work at cross-purposes. If you move Ted towards getting over Robin and being ready to meet the Mother, you undermine #2. If you showcase Ted being perpetually in love with Robin, you undermine #1. You could maybe do them both, but if you do, you need to show the relationship with the Mother after the meeting and how that truly was a wonderful romance for Ted, as well as the aftermath of the Mother's death in much longer form. You'd need to show Ted as a broken man after the Mother dies. You'd need to show him spending time with Robin over the years after her death, gradually reconnecting with her and growing closer to her. You'd need to see the kids happy that their father is obviously connecting with Robin, and that Robin and he are both sufficiently different now as people than they were in their 20s and 30s, that they can actually make it work. Only after doing that would it make sense to have the kids reactions be "No worries, dad. Mom's been gone for six years and you and Robin get on like a house on fire. Go for it!" Instead, they just told you all of that info in a minute or two and then completely reversed Ted's character growth from the last nine seasons.

They write good scenes and good jokes, and good individual episodes. They do not write a good story overall.

Solo4114 said:

Those two goals are diametrically opposed to each other, because narratively speaking, they work at cross-purposes. If you move Ted towards getting over Robin and being ready to meet the Mother, you undermine #2. If you showcase Ted being perpetually in love with Robin, you undermine #1. You could maybe do them both, but if you do, you need to show the relationship with the Mother after the meeting and how that truly was a wonderful romance for Ted, as well as the aftermath of the Mother's death in much longer form. You'd need to show Ted as a broken man after the Mother dies. You'd need to show him spending time with Robin over the years after her death, gradually reconnecting with her and growing closer to her. You'd need to see the kids happy that their father is obviously connecting with Robin, and that Robin and he are both sufficiently different now as people than they were in their 20s and 30s, that they can actually make it work. Only after doing that would it make sense to have the kids reactions be "No worries, dad. Mom's been gone for six years and you and Robin get on like a house on fire. Go for it!" Instead, they just told you all of that info in a minute or two and then completely reversed Ted's character growth from the last nine seasons.

They write good scenes and good jokes, and good individual episodes. They do not write a good story overall.

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Nail......Head......Hit like a mofo!!!!

You verbalized everything I've been trying to get out about my problem with the show. Its like when you see a great premise for a movie just executed badly in g production values and acting or great acting ruined by bad storytelling. When you miss that final element of a being great you feel even more cheated.

This is why I like the Netflix model of House of Cards. Theres a succinct story in place, its mapped out, you have great acting. Boom success.