Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

For the narrative purposes of the new films and the interesting directions the story and characters can go, I think it's a better creative choice to have the troopers be distinct individuals.
I can understand that and appreciate it.

From what I understand and saw of the Clone Wars series (and even in the movies although not nearly as substantial), there was quite a bit of Clonetroopers as individual and distinct characters. Did them being clones take away from that?

I also wonder if you base that on the rumor that Boyega will be a Stormtrooper in VII? ...and if the idea (that's apparently now abandoned) that a mixture of Clone/non-Clones is really limiting their being distinct individuals? Also seeing that ST have had little to no really characterization in the films up to this point.

...maybe I also missed a comment from you, Bryancd about this, but do you think that ST were at one time meant to be Clones? I think you pretty much wrote off the head bump as evidence, but there were statements from GL (and others?) that STs were at least meant to be a mix at one point.

Let me add this for discussions sake, too. It seems you have a real appreciation for Filoni - would it matter if this is contrary to Lucas and done simply as a tool to move VII forward? (ie, let the "new guys" do whatever they want and Filoni and others have to keep the company line and adjust).
 
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Sorry if you feel that was a personal attack. I haven't disparaged any of your opinions on the facts, but debating just for the point of debating, while it may be fun at times, doesn't add to the discussion.

It just seemed like your approach to all the discussions have been to be the guy to argue for the sake of arguing. It just seems to drag down the spirit of the discussion.
Feel that way? I think it's quite obvious that this is personal to you and I don't think it warrants you singling me out.

I went back several pages to reread posts and while there was a lot of actual discussion with real opinion and explanations. Just because you didn't like it, doesn't mean it warrants attacking me like this.

I'd suggest putting me on ignore.

Moving on...
 
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I can understand where JD is coming from,...I remember somewhere in my collection of books & mags that there was mention that they were clones....going back to '77 and thats how I also considered them

......but I like the idea of the troopers being individual and am happy with this direction

I also like the idea (mentioned in the Rebels book) that they are also women in the legion,.....in the 'Rinzler Making of Star Wars' book, Lucas explains that "Some of the stormtroopers are women, but there weren't that many women assigned to the Death Star. We can assume that there are quite a few elsewhere"

I think having the Stormtoopers as a mixture just expands the possibilities

J
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Feel that way? I think it's quite obvious that this is personal to you and I don't think it warrants you singling me out.

I went back several pages to reread posts and while there was a lot of actual discussion with real opinion and explanations. Just because you didn't like it, doesn't mean it warrants attacking me like this.

I'd suggest putting me on ignore.

I don't ever want to ignore anyone, or stick my head in the sand to avoid them or their ideas. I'll just not respond to you individually. Again, no offense directed to you. I'm not this community, I'm only a part of it. My posts were just to say, 'Dude, OK we get it.'. If we were sitting around a living room discussing this, that's what I'd have said. I'm just not a fan of circular arguments when they're based on opinion. That's all.

Again, sorry for any offense.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I can understand that and appreciate it.

From what I understand and saw of the Clone Wars series (and even in the movies although not nearly as substantial), there was quite a bit of Clonetroopers as individual and distinct characters. Did them being clones take away from that?

I also wonder if you base that on the rumor that Boyega will be a Stormtrooper in VII? ...and if the idea (that's apparently now abandoned) that a mixture of Clone/non-Clones is really limiting their being distinct individuals? Also seeing that ST have had little to no really characterization in the films up to this point.

...maybe I also missed a comment from you, @Bryancd about this, but do you think that ST were at one time meant to be Clones? I think you pretty much wrote off the head bump as evidence, but there were statements from GL (and others?) that STs were at least meant to be a mix at one point.

Let me add this for discussions sake, too. It seems you have a real appreciation for Filoni - would it matter if this is contrary to Lucas and done simply as a tool to move VII forward? (ie, let the "new guys" do whatever they want and Filoni and others have to keep the company line and adjust).

No, the efforts to individualize the clones in CW was very effective and well done. They had very distinct personalities so you really thought of them as disparate characters with different motivations. You kind of stopped even thinking if them as clones. It's a very different take away then from the PT where the clones are pretty much depicted as automotans for all intents and purposes.

Also, I not putting the idea of ST in the new films being individuals to fit the Boyega rumor but it does jibe with what we gave heard about that potentiality.

In regards to my childhood feeling regarding ST, I always thought they were individuals, not clones. Watching the films, they all seemed different, in height, in voice, in action. Certainly Luke and Han in ST disguise still retained their distinct voices and no one seemed to notice in the detention block. If anything there is more onscreen to suggest ST are individuals then clones, including a casual chat between two troopers. The reference to the Clone Wars seemed like something that happened far in the past.

Finally, I don 't believe for a moment that Dave would intentionally steer Rebels in a direction that GL wouldn't approve if. I actually feel that way about the entire LF team, they are respectful of his vision and that will continue to inform the SW universe.
 
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Thanks, @Bryancd - I think the only point I have to make on your thoughts above is that it doesn't include the possibility of a mixture of clones/non-clones in SW - which, as stated was (apparently) previously canon.
 
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I'd have to say that both would be true to a degree. A span of 18 years will not remove all traces of clones from the ranks. Not to mention, there's no indication Kamino was shut down during the PT. I imagine it went under in the interim since it was never heard from again (and yes, that's because it's idea wasn't conceived until many years after the OT :). Still, some of the trooper were likely clones, but by that time, loyal people had joined the ranks and possibly even dominated the ranks.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

See, I felt that Kamino was one of the loose ends that Palpatine would try to distance himself from. He had already made it to look as if the Jedi had been responsible for the army to begin with. As was mentioned before, the clones had accelerated aging built into their development. Granted, that was probably able to be halted by programming too. In either case, most clones seemed to be in the peak physical condition before they were put into service. Let's say that would be 23-28 years old. That'd put the OT-era clones between 40-50ish. A good age for higher ranked soldiers, but not for your main fighting force.

Which brings up another point. There was no longer a war going on. The Emperor's rule was absolute, & the troopers were more of a policing force than actual army. Kinda how there are troop drawdowns during peace time in our universe. It would make much more financial sense to conscript troopers, plus you have the added advantage of putting fear into the hearts of the people.

"You don't like our rule? Well, we'll just take all the young men & women from your planet & put them into Imperial service."
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Don't forget that in Star Wars Luke was dying to join the Academy to get off Tatooine

J

While I'm firmly in the ST as regular people or a combination of people and clones Luke's statement about joining the Academy doesn't really say much, at least not about Stormtroopers. The way that I've always interpreted the line was that he was joining the Academy to become either a line officer onboard a Star Destroyer or other ship, or to become a TIE pilot, not once did I ever think that his intentions were to join the Stormtrooper corps.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

While I'm firmly in the ST as regular people or a combination of people and clones Luke's statement about joining the Academy doesn't really say much, at least not about Stormtroopers. The way that I've always interpreted the line was that he was joining the Academy to become either a line officer onboard a Star Destroyer or other ship, or to become a TIE pilot, not once did I ever think that his intentions were to join the Stormtrooper corps.

Yeah, sorry I didn't mean that.....just that posibly a lot of stormtroopers probably aspired to be there just like Luke, Biggs & his mates were looking to get into the 'Air Corp' (or Wings)

J
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I never did think that made a great deal of sense. Luke flat out says he hates the Empire and yet wants to join the academy... Has canon ever officially connected the academy to the Empire or is that just something we assume?
 
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII

At the academy you learn to be a pilot, then just before you graduate you jump ship and join the rebellion, its what Biigs did, but most of that is from deleted scenes and the novelization.

Even Han went to the academy.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I'd assumed it was just kind of flight school... Maybe akin to the Naval academies training the merchant marines as well as future military.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Yeah the cut scenes have Biggs telling luke they're jumping ship to join the alliance "Something they had always talked about"...

I figured I could find the scenes on youtube, but no such luck. If you're not lazy, you could probably find them online somewhere... I first saw them on some extras DVD WAAAY back.

and if you get the right scene, I swear, there's a scene where a caped Biggs walks behind Luke and grabs his butt. Luke actually jumps up like he's shocked about it.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Yeah the cut scenes have Biggs telling luke they're jumping ship to join the alliance "Something they had always talked about"...

I figured I could find the scenes on youtube, but no such luck. If you're not lazy, you could probably find them online somewhere... I first saw them on some extras DVD WAAAY back.

and if you get the right scene, I swear, there's a scene where a caped Biggs walks behind Luke and grabs his butt. Luke actually jumps up like he's shocked about it.


Has the audio of what you describe, video leaves much to be desired.
 
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Yeah I believe it goes on longer... where it's mentioned that this isn't the first time they've talked about joining the rebellion...

I did find out it was from the "Behind the Magic" CD rom

CD rom... that's why I remember it looking so crappy!
 
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