Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I have so much frustration with discussions nitpicking the details of Jedi culture/dogma, the blurred lines of dark vs light force, etc. None of that was ever necessary within the OT. Jedi were benevolent heroes; the force was ambiguous. It worked best that way, and still does.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Jedi-72 said:
I always thought that Luke's confrontation with Vader in ESB was his "trial".
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Yes. He repeated the same thing in the Prequels. Fighting Darth Maul was Obi Wan's trial and afterwards he was a Jedi Knight. So apparently it's something that really tests a Jedi, maybe not necessarily a fight though.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Jedi-72 said:
The fight in ROTJ was a rehash of Empire. Same temptation, different day. Lucas' lazy approach to writing was in full force by this time.
.
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No. Luke went into the fight with completely different frame of mind knowing Vader was his father and wanting to turn him back to the good side. That is what brought balance to the force and ended the saga. How this is lazy writing is boyond me. People hate on Jedi but it has some of the most dark and important scenes in the trilogy.

Ben
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Also it's my belief that Yoda and Ben needed Vader defeated and used the "only a Jedi once he faced Vader" thing against Luke so he had to face him. They were desperate.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

gizmo said:
No. Luke went into the fight with completely different frame of mind knowing Vader was his father and wanting to turn him back to the good side. That is what brought balance to the force and ended the saga. How this is lazy writing is boyond me. People hate on Jedi but it has some of the most dark and important scenes in the trilogy.

Ben
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His mindset may have been different but the dynamic was very similar..."Give yourself to the Dark Side", which is how Luke bests Vader in the battle. He GIVES into the dark side and his anger defeats Vader, but he ultimately resists Palpatine's temptation, which is an echo of Vader's from ESB. It's the same darn thing... "Fulfill your destiny and take your father's place at my side." versus "You can destroy the Emperor and together we can rule the galaxy as father and son". Two different dudes making the same offer.

And the weakest point in that fight is that Vader has been hoping that Luke would join him and that together they could defeat Palps. Luke makes the move to do exactly what Vader wants him to, and Vader blocks the blow, thus stopping him from embracing the dark side. Yet, throughout the entire damn fight he's trying to get Luke to give himself to the dark side. HE WAS JUST THERE! :facepalm:lol I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Jedi-72 said:
His mindset may have been different but the dynamic was very similar..."Give yourself to the Dark Side", which is how Luke bests Vader in the battle. He GIVES into the dark side and his anger defeats Vader, but he ultimately resists Palpatine's temptation, which is an echo of Vader's from ESB. It's the same darn thing... "Fulfill your destiny and take your father's place at my side." versus "You can destroy the Emperor and together we can rule the galaxy as father and son". Two different dudes making the same offer.

And the weakest point in that fight is that Vader has been hoping that Luke would join him and that together they could defeat Palps. Luke makes the move to do exactly what Vader wants him to, and Vader blocks the blow, thus stopping him from embracing the dark side. Yet, throughout the entire damn fight he's trying to get Luke to give himself to the dark side. HE WAS JUST THERE! :facepalm:lol I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!
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Well you could see it that way or you could take it that Vader really is in turmoil exactly as Luke thinks.Thus Luke does make him turn back to the good side. And do you honestly think the Emperor would just let Luke strike him down.Come on man. The most powerful person in the galaxy and he just makes it that easy.He's messing with both of them. That's what he does. All three of them are playing mind games on each other Especially the emperor. The only one in the fight with clear intentions is Luke.


Ben


Ben
 
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII

gizmo said:
Well you could see it that way or you could take it that Vader really is in turmoil exactly as Luke thinks.Thus Luke does make him turn back to the good side. And do you honestly think the Emperor would just let Luke strike him down.Come on man. The most powerful person in the galaxy and he just makes it that easy.He's messing with both of them. That's what he does. All three of them are playing mind games on each other Especially the emperor. The only one in the fight with clear intentions is Luke.
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No doubt. Palpatine is in total control and just making his puppets dance. But, I don't think Vader is really THAT conflicted. There are some pangs, sure. But, I don't think Vader was completely turned just by Luke's impending death. He'd just watched the Emperor egg Luke on to kill him and replace him as his right hand man. Palps abandoned him for the next big thing which probably went a long way in facilitating Vader's turn to protect his son. It wasn't all a surge of love for his son. It was probably as much about revenge against Palpatine as it was about saving Luke.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Solo4114 said:
As for Tom Cruise making an appearance....no. Just....no. Leave it alone. I don't care that he's a fan. Being a fan doesn't get you a role in the films. Being able to play a role necessary to the story gets you in. You want people in the film? Hire character actors, not A-listers.
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I agree with this 100%. I feel the same way about Samuel Jackson. He was put in simply because he was a fan. I can't stand Mace Windu. Has Samuel Jackson ever played anyone but Samuel Jackson?
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Laspector said:
I agree with this 100%. I feel the same way about Samuel Jackson. He was put in simply because he was a fan. I can't stand Mace Windu. Has Samuel Jackson ever played anyone but Samuel Jackson?
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I thought he did a fantastic job of playing a piece of shark bait in Deep Blue Sea. :) Also, he definitely did NOT play "Samuel L. Mother****ing Jackson" in GoodFellas.

I didn't really "mind" him in that role, but it just struck me as...I dunno. Stunt casting, I guess. It was cool in the moment, but looking back, it pulled focus. He wasn't used enough to effectively disappear into the role the way, say, Liam Neeson or Ewan McGregor did. So, it ends up being "With Samuel L. Jackson as a badass Jedi."

To be fair, my concern isn't really about Cruise himself. I actually think that Tom Cruise is a talented actor when given a good role (Lestat or Ron Kovic, for example). But the problem with a lot of true A-listers is that their celebrity, their A-list identity, eclipses their performance, so they end up being "Tom Cruise playing a secret agent" rather than "a secret agent." This is why I prefer lesser known actors or actors who really can disappear into a role.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Solo4114 said:
I thought he did a fantastic job of playing a piece of shark bait in Deep Blue Sea. :) Also, he definitely did NOT play "Samuel L. Mother****ing Jackson" in GoodFellas.

I didn't really "mind" him in that role, but it just struck me as...I dunno. Stunt casting, I guess. It was cool in the moment, but looking back, it pulled focus. He wasn't used enough to effectively disappear into the role the way, say, Liam Neeson or Ewan McGregor did. So, it ends up being "With Samuel L. Jackson as a badass Jedi."

To be fair, my concern isn't really about Cruise himself. I actually think that Tom Cruise is a talented actor when given a good role (Lestat or Ron Kovic, for example). But the problem with a lot of true A-listers is that their celebrity, their A-list identity, eclipses their performance, so they end up being "Tom Cruise playing a secret agent" rather than "a secret agent." This is why I prefer lesser known actors or actors who really can disappear into a role.
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He was also good in Jurassic Park, not an Oscar worthy performance by any means but certainly not his usual bombastic self.

I think that the problem with actors like Tom Cruise and Samuel L. is that a lot of times why we see them in only certain kind of roles is because the producers want them for that. They want to see Samuel L being Samuel L or Tom Cruise being Tom Cruise because that's what they believe that audiences want to see and so will make the movie a hit. Now me personally, I like seeing actors going against type and I'd love to make a movie where the hero of the story is played by somebody who normally plays the villain and vice versa for the villain and start it off making you believe the villain is the hero and the hero is the villain because of the casting.

Like I said previously, Tom Cruise in Ep VII wouldn't be the end of the world for so long as his role is contained to just a cameo. Let him walk around on screen in the background a bit, just enough to be spotted but no more, no lines or close ups. Basically, if they keep it to less than Christian Slater's cameo in ST VI then it should be fine.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Riceball said:
He was also good in Jurassic Park, not an Oscar worthy performance by any means but certainly not his usual bombastic self.

I think that the problem with actors like Tom Cruise and Samuel L. is that a lot of times why we see them in only certain kind of roles is because the producers want them for that. They want to see Samuel L being Samuel L or Tom Cruise being Tom Cruise because that's what they believe that audiences want to see and so will make the movie a hit. Now me personally, I like seeing actors going against type and I'd love to make a movie where the hero of the story is played by somebody who normally plays the villain and vice versa for the villain and start it off making you believe the villain is the hero and the hero is the villain because of the casting.

Like I said previously, Tom Cruise in Ep VII wouldn't be the end of the world for so long as his role is contained to just a cameo. Let him walk around on screen in the background a bit, just enough to be spotted but no more, no lines or close ups. Basically, if they keep it to less than Christian Slater's cameo in ST VI then it should be fine.
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That's a fair point. Also, I'd be fine with the kind of cameo mentioned, since...I was unaware of the cameo in the first place. :lol If Cruise is in a "blink and you'll miss it" cameo with no lines? No problem. Particularly if I can't really see him.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Since things are a little slow here, did anyone catch Corvette Summer on TV the other day? I love that little movie and as a kid I thought that car was bitching!! Seems gaudy now but back then it was too-cool-for-school!!

I think Mark is a very under rated actor.
 
Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Ok, I know this is a 'pics or it didn't happen' situation, but I am gonna put myself out there and tell you a friend showed me 2 pics of items in Episode 7. One of the pics gives away a setup/plot point of the film.

I don't have the pics, as he flatly refused to give them to me.

I want to say what I saw, but I can't figure out how to do the 'Spoiler' tab in a post.....or does it matter?
 
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