Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII
No, the previous EU will be called the Legend Series and will still be in print (we'll see how long that lasts) but they exist outside of canon. The new books won't be EU, they will be STAR WARS canon.
No, the previous EU will be called the Legend Series and will still be in print (we'll see how long that lasts) but they exist outside of canon. The new books won't be EU, they will be STAR WARS canon.
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Unless otherwise stated. They can always fall back on the movies.
Unless otherwise stated. They can always fall back on the movies.
rodneyfaile
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I think this should definitely be canon.
I think this should definitely be canon.
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I was kinda joking but thanks for making sense of it though. I don't think Disney saying canon means anything really and I guess what ever goes into a movie is canon at the end of the day. I guess a book written about Tarkin 30 or so years after the character died in a film is neither canon or not canon it all depends on who owns the intellectual rights to Tarkin, as its Disney then they can call it canon as its under there umbrella, but in the real world its just a book about Tarkin and either a fun read or not, depending on what you want out of a Movie franchise, I get that people love this stuff but just doesn't rock my boat. I'll get over it in a few days just gets me the level of in-depth over analysis of meh! things..
Then again its just as bad as rivet counting and I'd never do that either , cough !!! backs away to a dark corner!!!
I was kinda joking but thanks for making sense of it though. I don't think Disney saying canon means anything really and I guess what ever goes into a movie is canon at the end of the day. I guess a book written about Tarkin 30 or so years after the character died in a film is neither canon or not canon it all depends on who owns the intellectual rights to Tarkin, as its Disney then they can call it canon as its under there umbrella, but in the real world its just a book about Tarkin and either a fun read or not, depending on what you want out of a Movie franchise, I get that people love this stuff but just doesn't rock my boat. I'll get over it in a few days just gets me the level of in-depth over analysis of meh! things..
Then again its just as bad as rivet counting and I'd never do that either , cough !!! backs away to a dark corner!!!
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
The way I see it is anything made since ROTJ has been fun but until we know when/if there was more after it we really are only doing what amounts to fan fics-NOW that there's defiantly going to be more we'll just have to set the EU aside as what it should be a large amount of "what if?"
In a way while I hate to rag on the guy Lucas is to blame for this fan nonsense as he's ether been squirrelly as hell,or just plain wishy-washy about just what he wanted to do after ROTJ-until fifteen years ago when he said surprise! we're gonna do the first three films now!!! then he said after EpIII "no more! you hate me! go die in a fire!! SW is done!!"....then he sold the rights and whoopy-ding-dong now we're gonna do seven through nine.....
So SW is getting to be a giant arse pain,but still I'm ready for something new and I'm actually excited (believe it or not) for whatever comes.
In fact from 1983 to 1999 I only read the old 80's Marvel comics a bit,then the prequels,then I got sick of all the crap they tossed out and nearly gave up and now I'm here for the new series.
The EU should stay for those that enjoy it,but realize that it's just fiction....of fiction.
The way I see it is anything made since ROTJ has been fun but until we know when/if there was more after it we really are only doing what amounts to fan fics-NOW that there's defiantly going to be more we'll just have to set the EU aside as what it should be a large amount of "what if?"
In a way while I hate to rag on the guy Lucas is to blame for this fan nonsense as he's ether been squirrelly as hell,or just plain wishy-washy about just what he wanted to do after ROTJ-until fifteen years ago when he said surprise! we're gonna do the first three films now!!! then he said after EpIII "no more! you hate me! go die in a fire!! SW is done!!"....then he sold the rights and whoopy-ding-dong now we're gonna do seven through nine.....
So SW is getting to be a giant arse pain,but still I'm ready for something new and I'm actually excited (believe it or not) for whatever comes.
In fact from 1983 to 1999 I only read the old 80's Marvel comics a bit,then the prequels,then I got sick of all the crap they tossed out and nearly gave up and now I'm here for the new series.
The EU should stay for those that enjoy it,but realize that it's just fiction....of fiction.
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
You read something different than I did. It said they can use any of the EU. Anything that contradicts the new story will obviously be wiped clean. So any of the main characters' marriages or kids could be in the air. So pretty much everything from Episode 7's time period on will be wiped (hopefully that means the whole New Jedi Order crap is gone for good). If it doesn't contradict anything than is seems like it will stay EU canon. So basically Mara is on the market again and possibly still breathing.
For clarification, every time someone says they would like the EU included in the movies, that doesn't mean they want adaptations of the books at all. There's just no reason not to use characters, vehicles, locations, etc. if they fit the story. All that stuff is right there and they have access to it without having to have a room full of designers making it up. If it doesn't fit then you don't use it. I would much rather they have Kyle Katarn in Episode 7 than Jar Jar in any movie. I don't think it's going to ruin your viewing of the movie if an EU ship flies by.
You read something different than I did. It said they can use any of the EU. Anything that contradicts the new story will obviously be wiped clean. So any of the main characters' marriages or kids could be in the air. So pretty much everything from Episode 7's time period on will be wiped (hopefully that means the whole New Jedi Order crap is gone for good). If it doesn't contradict anything than is seems like it will stay EU canon. So basically Mara is on the market again and possibly still breathing.
For clarification, every time someone says they would like the EU included in the movies, that doesn't mean they want adaptations of the books at all. There's just no reason not to use characters, vehicles, locations, etc. if they fit the story. All that stuff is right there and they have access to it without having to have a room full of designers making it up. If it doesn't fit then you don't use it. I would much rather they have Kyle Katarn in Episode 7 than Jar Jar in any movie. I don't think it's going to ruin your viewing of the movie if an EU ship flies by.
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Mara Jade has almost zero opportunity to appear. GL never liked her and to include such a major EU character, which I feel I need to repeat I am a HUGE EU fan and reader, would commit the screenwriters to adhering to a character they did not create. There is zero, and I stress Zero, chance that Disney, LF, or JJ would want to go down that road. The rest of the EU could be mined for minor stuff, but are youn hanging your canon hat on that?
Mara Jade has almost zero opportunity to appear. GL never liked her and to include such a major EU character, which I feel I need to repeat I am a HUGE EU fan and reader, would commit the screenwriters to adhering to a character they did not create. There is zero, and I stress Zero, chance that Disney, LF, or JJ would want to go down that road. The rest of the EU could be mined for minor stuff, but are youn hanging your canon hat on that?
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Oh I know that I was just mentioning the way characters would be changing. I think at most we may get a cameo or minor character the way Aayla was put in the Prequels. For example, if there's a scene with a bunch of Jedi, it would easy to slip in some recognizable characters in the gathering.
Oh I know that I was just mentioning the way characters would be changing. I think at most we may get a cameo or minor character the way Aayla was put in the Prequels. For example, if there's a scene with a bunch of Jedi, it would easy to slip in some recognizable characters in the gathering.
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I bet you a million dollars not one member of the crew from the top down has even bothered looking at the EU at any length or at all, they're just writing a star wars movie based on what they think will work from the OT. I bet if you stood up in a production meeting and said Mara Jade they'd think it was a shade of Green in the new Dulux paint range at best!!! Lets be honest why would they not? It's also quite likely none of them would even know what lightsabers where made of or that R2 sees in Infa red and has a cloaking device ...no wait that was another film !!!
I bet you a million dollars not one member of the crew from the top down has even bothered looking at the EU at any length or at all, they're just writing a star wars movie based on what they think will work from the OT. I bet if you stood up in a production meeting and said Mara Jade they'd think it was a shade of Green in the new Dulux paint range at best!!! Lets be honest why would they not? It's also quite likely none of them would even know what lightsabers where made of or that R2 sees in Infa red and has a cloaking device ...no wait that was another film !!!
rodneyfaile
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Does anyone really want a movie version of a EU novel? I can hear the complaining already.
I'd rather go into Episode VII having absolutely no idea where the story is going.
They didn't have a book burning. The EU is still there for those who love it.
Canon is whatever I say it is.
Does anyone really want a movie version of a EU novel? I can hear the complaining already.
I'd rather go into Episode VII having absolutely no idea where the story is going.
They didn't have a book burning. The EU is still there for those who love it.
Canon is whatever I say it is.
JediG60racer
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I just hope it involves Ewoks. And midichlorians. And Jar Jar.
I just hope it involves Ewoks. And midichlorians. And Jar Jar.
joshvanrad
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
BURN THE WITCH!!!
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
BURN THE WITCH!!!
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
You've got to admire how the whole EU thing is being handled. Its really nothing to do with story lines in a universe far,far away, and everything to do with intellectual property rights in the real one.
It would been an absolute legal minefield for Disney to start tiptoeing across and use any characters from the EU. Their inclusion in any of subsequent new media would produce a ton of legal work based on " derivative" use of a character.
" Derivative work could be a new, original product that includes aspects of a preexisting, already copyrighted work. Also known as a "new version," derivative works can include musical arrangements, motion pictures, art reproductions, sound recordings or translations. They can also include dramatizations and fictionalizations, such as a movie based on a play.Other examples of derivative works include: Translating an English novel into Spanish, remixing previously released music, and creating a sequel to a film using characters and other elements from the original."
Baring in mind all the EU is based on the SW universe, but in some cases based on agreements made decades ago, if it were to be used in the New Universe you can see exactly what kind of chaos that will cause. Just think of the legal wrangles over character merchandising, screen credits ie based on a character, based on a .....based on... an original idea by George Lucas. You get the idea.
Remember Disney have now effectively made a stopping point beyond which they are totally free to do anything they want, unlike with Marvel where the story universe is to a large extent prexistant And that means ALL the merchandising rights, which will be one imagines, considerable, are theirs without any costly negotiations and extra payments. Lets face it they have paid enough for the rights all ready.
So "Its a whole New World" for them and us, bright with possiblities with out the need to beholden to anything previously dictated AFTER ROTJ except what GL advices them is roughly in line with what he imagined, which is to say by all the evidence I've seen ,not well known and, like his original drafts, very open to alteration.
Never has any franchise been so freshly available to "reinvent" without taking the wheels off the wagon. This is a huge opprtunity for Disney and Lucasfilm and I should add ,the rest of us. Interestingly ,as I said in my last post ,there seems to be a huge effort to put everything back on the OT track with Rebels. The "new" version of the OT books for "younger audiences" support that even more strongly. And remember, not only have they got a huge universe to play with going forward from SW7, but they also have three decades of events to "infill" between ROTJ and that. What an opportunity to please us older fans !!!!!!
You've got to admire how the whole EU thing is being handled. Its really nothing to do with story lines in a universe far,far away, and everything to do with intellectual property rights in the real one.
It would been an absolute legal minefield for Disney to start tiptoeing across and use any characters from the EU. Their inclusion in any of subsequent new media would produce a ton of legal work based on " derivative" use of a character.
" Derivative work could be a new, original product that includes aspects of a preexisting, already copyrighted work. Also known as a "new version," derivative works can include musical arrangements, motion pictures, art reproductions, sound recordings or translations. They can also include dramatizations and fictionalizations, such as a movie based on a play.Other examples of derivative works include: Translating an English novel into Spanish, remixing previously released music, and creating a sequel to a film using characters and other elements from the original."
Baring in mind all the EU is based on the SW universe, but in some cases based on agreements made decades ago, if it were to be used in the New Universe you can see exactly what kind of chaos that will cause. Just think of the legal wrangles over character merchandising, screen credits ie based on a character, based on a .....based on... an original idea by George Lucas. You get the idea.
Remember Disney have now effectively made a stopping point beyond which they are totally free to do anything they want, unlike with Marvel where the story universe is to a large extent prexistant And that means ALL the merchandising rights, which will be one imagines, considerable, are theirs without any costly negotiations and extra payments. Lets face it they have paid enough for the rights all ready.
So "Its a whole New World" for them and us, bright with possiblities with out the need to beholden to anything previously dictated AFTER ROTJ except what GL advices them is roughly in line with what he imagined, which is to say by all the evidence I've seen ,not well known and, like his original drafts, very open to alteration.
Never has any franchise been so freshly available to "reinvent" without taking the wheels off the wagon. This is a huge opprtunity for Disney and Lucasfilm and I should add ,the rest of us. Interestingly ,as I said in my last post ,there seems to be a huge effort to put everything back on the OT track with Rebels. The "new" version of the OT books for "younger audiences" support that even more strongly. And remember, not only have they got a huge universe to play with going forward from SW7, but they also have three decades of events to "infill" between ROTJ and that. What an opportunity to please us older fans !!!!!!
seelsa73
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
All novels with the Star Wars stamp on it, no matter who they're written by, are the intellectual property of Lucas liscensing, owned by Lucasfilm, owned in turn by Disney, and they can use none, any or all content written within those novels as they see fit with or without the permission of the authors. The authors know this before they write a single word, so this "legal minefield" you speak of does not exist.
All novels with the Star Wars stamp on it, no matter who they're written by, are the intellectual property of Lucas liscensing, owned by Lucasfilm, owned in turn by Disney, and they can use none, any or all content written within those novels as they see fit with or without the permission of the authors. The authors know this before they write a single word, so this "legal minefield" you speak of does not exist.
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
"All novels with the Star Wars stamp on it, no matter who they're written by, are the intellectual property of Lucas liscensing, owned by Lucasfilm, owned in turn by Disney, and they can use none, any or all content written within those novels as they see fit with or without the permission of the authors. The authors know this before they write a single word, so this "legal minefield" you speak of does not exist."
Yep,I don't disagree as I stated in the post " based on a character, based on a .....based on... an original idea by George Lucas. You get the idea."
But ,given some of the cases that already exist about intellectual copyright ownership I would absolutely bet there would be some claims made to restitutional payments percentage wise for authors work if whole storylines and characters were lifted completely and used in the new series, regardless of past agreements, if ,as seems suddenly likely, millions of dollars of revenue were to be made from the film and merchandise. There will always be somebody wanting to claim otherwise on unfair contracts and others willing to support such arguments ,however weak or strong the case is if there is money to be made, and there have been some costly examples of that already. Given that the entire series was supposed to be completed and even GL swore there would be never be any continuation of SW series up to a comparitively short time ago ,there may or may not have been plenty of legal arguments now the ownership has transferred and the series continued if anything was used. I'm no lawyer, but it seems extremely sensible to me that by clean slating the entire forward storyline post ROTJ then there really is absolutely nothing anyone could do with such a fresh start, given the volume of work that has matured , legitimately or otherwise in the last three plus decades between.
Even detailed timelines for the EU exist in fairly grounded work like "The Star Wars Chronicles" (go look) and now that is all "history" and I cannot say I'm disappoinited by that. Remember this was really ALL we were ever going to get from the SW universe until GL suddenly stunned everyone by releasing his hold over it . I can understand why some people want it to survive and Disney has wisely not "crushed" that spirit but gently but firmly shoved it to one side, thats why I said I admired the way they are handling it. They are going out of their way NOT to upset the fan community or anyone who has contributed to the mythology, and they seem very even handed with the way everyone is being treated at the moment. They are after all brilliant marketing strategists.
And I would expect some firm announcements about the series to be made very soon given there are some very important anniversary dates coming up in the very near future and the ground work is now well established.
"All novels with the Star Wars stamp on it, no matter who they're written by, are the intellectual property of Lucas liscensing, owned by Lucasfilm, owned in turn by Disney, and they can use none, any or all content written within those novels as they see fit with or without the permission of the authors. The authors know this before they write a single word, so this "legal minefield" you speak of does not exist."
Yep,I don't disagree as I stated in the post " based on a character, based on a .....based on... an original idea by George Lucas. You get the idea."
But ,given some of the cases that already exist about intellectual copyright ownership I would absolutely bet there would be some claims made to restitutional payments percentage wise for authors work if whole storylines and characters were lifted completely and used in the new series, regardless of past agreements, if ,as seems suddenly likely, millions of dollars of revenue were to be made from the film and merchandise. There will always be somebody wanting to claim otherwise on unfair contracts and others willing to support such arguments ,however weak or strong the case is if there is money to be made, and there have been some costly examples of that already. Given that the entire series was supposed to be completed and even GL swore there would be never be any continuation of SW series up to a comparitively short time ago ,there may or may not have been plenty of legal arguments now the ownership has transferred and the series continued if anything was used. I'm no lawyer, but it seems extremely sensible to me that by clean slating the entire forward storyline post ROTJ then there really is absolutely nothing anyone could do with such a fresh start, given the volume of work that has matured , legitimately or otherwise in the last three plus decades between.
Even detailed timelines for the EU exist in fairly grounded work like "The Star Wars Chronicles" (go look) and now that is all "history" and I cannot say I'm disappoinited by that. Remember this was really ALL we were ever going to get from the SW universe until GL suddenly stunned everyone by releasing his hold over it . I can understand why some people want it to survive and Disney has wisely not "crushed" that spirit but gently but firmly shoved it to one side, thats why I said I admired the way they are handling it. They are going out of their way NOT to upset the fan community or anyone who has contributed to the mythology, and they seem very even handed with the way everyone is being treated at the moment. They are after all brilliant marketing strategists.
And I would expect some firm announcements about the series to be made very soon given there are some very important anniversary dates coming up in the very near future and the ground work is now well established.
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