Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII
HAHAHAAHAHA!
And we must all worry if we hear Christopher Lloyd gets signed on to Episode 7!
HAHAHAAHAHA!
And we must all worry if we hear Christopher Lloyd gets signed on to Episode 7!
Lost21stJedi
Well-Known Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Couldn't he just slingshot around the sun. Of course, with Luke on board now, he would have to adjust for the additional weight, velocity would no longer be a constant :rolleyes
Couldn't he just slingshot around the sun. Of course, with Luke on board now, he would have to adjust for the additional weight, velocity would no longer be a constant :rolleyes
Solo4114
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Question:
Why?
Why does Ep. VII-IX have to have anything to do with the characters or specific events of Eps. I-VI?
This is the kind of myopia to which fans (and executives) fall prey. "But...it's Ep. VII. It kinda HAS to be about the previous characters."
No it doesn't. It has to be about the same universe, and there has to be A connection to the previous films, but that doesn't necessarily mean the same characters or events. It could be about the great grandchildren of the Skywalker family. It could be about the gradual breakdown of order two generations hence when the government becomes corrupt. It could be about a split in the new Jedi order, leading to a Jedi civil war three hundred years in the future. These could all reference back to the events of the previous films and the characters who appeared in them, but there's no need for a connection beyond that.
Eps. I - VI were, arguably, a single story. That story is told and finished. Ep. VII does not NEED to be some continuation merely because it has "Episode VII" in the title. The more tightly tied to the originals these new films are, the less room they have to maneuver.
And really, what further tales NEED to be told with the OT heroes or the characters from the PT? The bad guys lost, the good guys won, and they lived happily ever after. That's the message in Ep. VI. The story is done. Telling new stories is fine, but there's no NEED for those stories to be about the old characters, or event to involve them in anything other than some oblique reference, like Luke appearing in a holographic recording, or a reference to the Leia Organa-Solo Memorial Hospital For Diplomats or whatever.
I'll put it this way. If they were to include the characters from the previous films, the only way I'd want to see them are the way that Bilbo Baggins is included in LOTR. Namely, not really at all, or only for about 5 minutes total. An important 5 minutes, sure, but it's a cameo appearance and then off you go. The ONLY character I could see serving any larger role is Luke. And even then, I'd want him to be a smaller role and preferably NOT some obvious "I'll be like Obi-Wan, train the new generation, and then get killed."
We've done that. We did it with Qui-Gon, we did it with Obi-Wan. We don't need to do it with Luke. That's just the obvious repetitive crap that fans come up with.
Those films may not happen if the new trilogy is a failure. And anyway, the new trilogy can and should do ALL of that. All the exploration of new stuff, all the capitalizing on the rich background the universe provides, all of that should be in the new trilogy, not relegated to subsequent films.
The OT and PT as a six-episode cycle is finished. Nothing more needs to be told. The appearance of numbers in the title doesn't necessitate that Luke Wan Kenobi does the same crap we saw before, or that Han Solo has anything more than 3 minutes of screen time in the entire new trilogy. Or anyoen else from the OT for that matter.
We can do better. We SHOULD do better. Make it about new characters in new situations, but take into account the state of the galaxy 30 years past the defeat of the Empire IF YOU MUST (And I don't think you must, anyway.) The impact of the OT heroes could still be felt even if they never appeared in the new films at all.
Question:
Why?
Why does Ep. VII-IX have to have anything to do with the characters or specific events of Eps. I-VI?
This is the kind of myopia to which fans (and executives) fall prey. "But...it's Ep. VII. It kinda HAS to be about the previous characters."
No it doesn't. It has to be about the same universe, and there has to be A connection to the previous films, but that doesn't necessarily mean the same characters or events. It could be about the great grandchildren of the Skywalker family. It could be about the gradual breakdown of order two generations hence when the government becomes corrupt. It could be about a split in the new Jedi order, leading to a Jedi civil war three hundred years in the future. These could all reference back to the events of the previous films and the characters who appeared in them, but there's no need for a connection beyond that.
Eps. I - VI were, arguably, a single story. That story is told and finished. Ep. VII does not NEED to be some continuation merely because it has "Episode VII" in the title. The more tightly tied to the originals these new films are, the less room they have to maneuver.
And really, what further tales NEED to be told with the OT heroes or the characters from the PT? The bad guys lost, the good guys won, and they lived happily ever after. That's the message in Ep. VI. The story is done. Telling new stories is fine, but there's no NEED for those stories to be about the old characters, or event to involve them in anything other than some oblique reference, like Luke appearing in a holographic recording, or a reference to the Leia Organa-Solo Memorial Hospital For Diplomats or whatever.
I'll put it this way. If they were to include the characters from the previous films, the only way I'd want to see them are the way that Bilbo Baggins is included in LOTR. Namely, not really at all, or only for about 5 minutes total. An important 5 minutes, sure, but it's a cameo appearance and then off you go. The ONLY character I could see serving any larger role is Luke. And even then, I'd want him to be a smaller role and preferably NOT some obvious "I'll be like Obi-Wan, train the new generation, and then get killed."
We've done that. We did it with Qui-Gon, we did it with Obi-Wan. We don't need to do it with Luke. That's just the obvious repetitive crap that fans come up with.
Those films may not happen if the new trilogy is a failure. And anyway, the new trilogy can and should do ALL of that. All the exploration of new stuff, all the capitalizing on the rich background the universe provides, all of that should be in the new trilogy, not relegated to subsequent films.
The OT and PT as a six-episode cycle is finished. Nothing more needs to be told. The appearance of numbers in the title doesn't necessitate that Luke Wan Kenobi does the same crap we saw before, or that Han Solo has anything more than 3 minutes of screen time in the entire new trilogy. Or anyoen else from the OT for that matter.
We can do better. We SHOULD do better. Make it about new characters in new situations, but take into account the state of the galaxy 30 years past the defeat of the Empire IF YOU MUST (And I don't think you must, anyway.) The impact of the OT heroes could still be felt even if they never appeared in the new films at all.
jme3
Sr Member
Too Much Garlic
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
And because it is part of a series of movies that is about the Skywalker family and pretty much connected around a certain time-frame within the Star Wars universe. Would be insane to call it 7-9 if you set it hundreds of years into the future with no real connection to what came before... then why call it 7-9. Makes no logical sense.
You don't know that. You could easily say that the story stops after ep3. There was really no need for 4-6 (even though they came first). You just assume the story is finished. Doesn't mean it is. All that is finished is Anakin's story. Now we get to see Luke's story finish.
And because it is part of a series of movies that is about the Skywalker family and pretty much connected around a certain time-frame within the Star Wars universe. Would be insane to call it 7-9 if you set it hundreds of years into the future with no real connection to what came before... then why call it 7-9. Makes no logical sense.
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Yeah, I think it's reasonable to make certain assumptions based on this being referred to by Disney and LucasFilm as Ep VII that they are drawing a direct link to the previous six films. Had they simply said new SW films, then that would seem to imply stories removed from that Skywalker saga. So although it's true they don't have to continue that narrative, I don't think it's myopic at all to assume that's the intent. And as that would be my personal preference I am very excited at the prospect.
I'm sure they will do separate film content with new stories as well.
Yeah, I think it's reasonable to make certain assumptions based on this being referred to by Disney and LucasFilm as Ep VII that they are drawing a direct link to the previous six films. Had they simply said new SW films, then that would seem to imply stories removed from that Skywalker saga. So although it's true they don't have to continue that narrative, I don't think it's myopic at all to assume that's the intent. And as that would be my personal preference I am very excited at the prospect.
I'm sure they will do separate film content with new stories as well.
Solo4114
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Except for the fact that, you know, we started with Eps. IV - VI and they were based on a particular backstory. Thus, showing that backstory made sense within the narrative framework established. By contrast, the story ends at the end of Ep. VI. Bad guys lose, good guys win, end of story. And then what happened? Well, everyone got old and died. The end. Now go to bed.
Why?
Because someone stuck numbers on the title? You really can't conceive of a new story with entirely new characters that still plays off of the events or context of the original films?
Next you're gonna tell me they can't make anything relating to Star Trek without Captain Kirk.
Connected to the original movies, sure. But that's the thing that it seems no one can see. They're "connected" by virtue if being set in the same universe.
I mean, I'll grant you, if Star Wars was called "The Adventures of the Skywalker Clan" then, yeah, calling it Episode VII and then having it be about some random guy who had no connection to them would be stupid. But they're called "Star Wars." Not "Skywalker Wars." You can make them about any damn thing you want as long as it takes place in that universe, and you can call it "Episode VII" too. Why? Because the story of the Skywalkers is told.
You can continue to add to it, but you don't NEED to. And frankly, I hope they don't, or at least don't in any significant fashion. The OT characters (or some of them) having 3-minute cameos or being only tangentially connected? No problem. Give them as much prominence as Jimmy Smitts or Samuel L. Jackson got in the PT and I'm happy. Because that, in my opinion, is about the degree of involvement they should have. Any more than that, and you're setting an Admiral Ackbar-sized trap for yourself.
I just don't trust the film industry to be able to so closely tie these new films with the old films and have them feel like anything other than warmed over stuff that we've already seen. And you know what? Frankly, I'm tired of the same old Star Wars. The magic will not be recaptured nor recreated. It must be created anew.
Except for the fact that, you know, we started with Eps. IV - VI and they were based on a particular backstory. Thus, showing that backstory made sense within the narrative framework established. By contrast, the story ends at the end of Ep. VI. Bad guys lose, good guys win, end of story. And then what happened? Well, everyone got old and died. The end. Now go to bed.
Why?
Because someone stuck numbers on the title? You really can't conceive of a new story with entirely new characters that still plays off of the events or context of the original films?
Next you're gonna tell me they can't make anything relating to Star Trek without Captain Kirk.
Connected to the original movies, sure. But that's the thing that it seems no one can see. They're "connected" by virtue if being set in the same universe.
I mean, I'll grant you, if Star Wars was called "The Adventures of the Skywalker Clan" then, yeah, calling it Episode VII and then having it be about some random guy who had no connection to them would be stupid. But they're called "Star Wars." Not "Skywalker Wars." You can make them about any damn thing you want as long as it takes place in that universe, and you can call it "Episode VII" too. Why? Because the story of the Skywalkers is told.
You can continue to add to it, but you don't NEED to. And frankly, I hope they don't, or at least don't in any significant fashion. The OT characters (or some of them) having 3-minute cameos or being only tangentially connected? No problem. Give them as much prominence as Jimmy Smitts or Samuel L. Jackson got in the PT and I'm happy. Because that, in my opinion, is about the degree of involvement they should have. Any more than that, and you're setting an Admiral Ackbar-sized trap for yourself.
I just don't trust the film industry to be able to so closely tie these new films with the old films and have them feel like anything other than warmed over stuff that we've already seen. And you know what? Frankly, I'm tired of the same old Star Wars. The magic will not be recaptured nor recreated. It must be created anew.
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
That's true, but not accurate. There is a clear INTENTION to have these three films, not any other films they are planning, to be connected to the PT and OT by virtue of their using what has become an undeniable part of this film franchise, the use of these numbers to delineate parts of THIS story. And who's to say the Skywalker story is over. Your argument in favor of creativity seems to have it's own limitations. :lol
That's true, but not accurate. There is a clear INTENTION to have these three films, not any other films they are planning, to be connected to the PT and OT by virtue of their using what has become an undeniable part of this film franchise, the use of these numbers to delineate parts of THIS story. And who's to say the Skywalker story is over. Your argument in favor of creativity seems to have it's own limitations. :lol
Too Much Garlic
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Well, so far, yes.Next you're gonna tell me they can't make anything relating to Star Trek without Captain Kirk.
Solo4114
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Don't be facetious. My argument in favor of creativity is to step beyond the bounds of the Skywalker story.
And choosing to try to tell a story involving the OT characters set some 30 years after ROTJ IS limiting on many levels. Even removing the OT characters from the story and simply setting things 30 years farther on is limiting.
To me, the reliance on the OT and the PT speaks of timidity and a lack of vision. Given how the film industry works nowadays, I just have very little faith that a property relying on such branding conventions will be all that well made.
Don't be facetious. My argument in favor of creativity is to step beyond the bounds of the Skywalker story.
And choosing to try to tell a story involving the OT characters set some 30 years after ROTJ IS limiting on many levels. Even removing the OT characters from the story and simply setting things 30 years farther on is limiting.
To me, the reliance on the OT and the PT speaks of timidity and a lack of vision. Given how the film industry works nowadays, I just have very little faith that a property relying on such branding conventions will be all that well made.
Too Much Garlic
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
And that's what the standalone movies are for.
And that's what the standalone movies are for.
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Then don't be so pedantic. What you consider timidity and lack of vision others consider to be the story they are most enthused to see. The problem with your argument is that it assumes seeing a continuation of the stories already told is universally undesirable, it is not. It is the most logic direction to take this recently acquired film franchise from a business standpoint, one which I make my career analyzing. It's important to ground these stories in the original six films as a gateway for both previous and new fans to to the franchise. Your welcome to complain about it all you like, though it will not alter the outcome. :behave
Then don't be so pedantic. What you consider timidity and lack of vision others consider to be the story they are most enthused to see. The problem with your argument is that it assumes seeing a continuation of the stories already told is universally undesirable, it is not. It is the most logic direction to take this recently acquired film franchise from a business standpoint, one which I make my career analyzing. It's important to ground these stories in the original six films as a gateway for both previous and new fans to to the franchise. Your welcome to complain about it all you like, though it will not alter the outcome. :behave
Zombie_61
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Hey man... What does the yellow light in my X-Wing mean?
:lol
Hey man... What does the yellow light in my X-Wing mean?
:lol
Zombie_61
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
(Translation: "Slow down.")
R2-D2: Beep boop bebeep whistle.
(Translation: "Slow down.")
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I think a lot of it comes down to fan hype and expectation.
NOTHING, and I mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, will ever come close to the success or generation shifting magic that was the first Star Wars trilogy. Films are so much a product of their time, and those films as much as they are timeless, are also very much tied to the era in which they were made and released. They say so much about what films could be, and that potential is one of the things that we love so much about them.
As far as the new trilogy being tied with 1-6, I think it's pretty obvious that they will be directly linked. If you wanted to get completely blunt about it, Episode 4: A New Hope was the only film that needed to be made. It was a complete story. Anything else, and I mean anything else, was simply a sequel.
I think that the only realistic expectation any fan should have for what's to come is to just be open. We can't go into the theater expecting to be blown away the way we first were as kids. That alone will utterly guarantee that we'll be let down. As amazing as our age of internet and high speed connectivity is, perhaps one of the BEST ways that they could try and recapture some of the magic would be to keep the production under an airtight wrap. Imagine going in with absolutely no clue about it. Even those who try and keep spoiler free for movies risk having the beans spilled by hearing something in public. What if NO ONE outside the production knew a thing? How amazing would that be?
I think a lot of it comes down to fan hype and expectation.
NOTHING, and I mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, will ever come close to the success or generation shifting magic that was the first Star Wars trilogy. Films are so much a product of their time, and those films as much as they are timeless, are also very much tied to the era in which they were made and released. They say so much about what films could be, and that potential is one of the things that we love so much about them.
As far as the new trilogy being tied with 1-6, I think it's pretty obvious that they will be directly linked. If you wanted to get completely blunt about it, Episode 4: A New Hope was the only film that needed to be made. It was a complete story. Anything else, and I mean anything else, was simply a sequel.
I think that the only realistic expectation any fan should have for what's to come is to just be open. We can't go into the theater expecting to be blown away the way we first were as kids. That alone will utterly guarantee that we'll be let down. As amazing as our age of internet and high speed connectivity is, perhaps one of the BEST ways that they could try and recapture some of the magic would be to keep the production under an airtight wrap. Imagine going in with absolutely no clue about it. Even those who try and keep spoiler free for movies risk having the beans spilled by hearing something in public. What if NO ONE outside the production knew a thing? How amazing would that be?
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Re: Star Wars Episode VII
spoiler alert:
not going to matter what they make it will all look like a brilliant looking video game which is where the disconnect comes in from the OT to the PT in which the OT many loved it so much because you could picture yourself there it was real and still holds up as where the PT is so full of effects it just looks like a glorified video game and blue screen mania
all star wars fans will be curious and see it but it just won't ever be the same as the OT was and that is where the magic is and stays forever
spoiler alert:
not going to matter what they make it will all look like a brilliant looking video game which is where the disconnect comes in from the OT to the PT in which the OT many loved it so much because you could picture yourself there it was real and still holds up as where the PT is so full of effects it just looks like a glorified video game and blue screen mania
all star wars fans will be curious and see it but it just won't ever be the same as the OT was and that is where the magic is and stays forever
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