Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)
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Lutso
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
The thing that I want to know is - since there is NO mention of Han Solo, Hasbro, Star Wars, etc. anywhere in that listing - how the hell you found that thing in the first place.
Guess you were just browsing Barbies on eBay?
:lol
The thing that I want to know is - since there is NO mention of Han Solo, Hasbro, Star Wars, etc. anywhere in that listing - how the hell you found that thing in the first place.
Guess you were just browsing Barbies on eBay?
:lol
Zombie_61
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
And that, in my opinion, is the biggest "problem" with the Prequel Trilogy. In Star Wars Obi-Wan/Ben describes Anakin as a "cunning warrior" and a "good friend", but we see little or no evidence of either in the PT. He appears to be capable with a lightsaber, but otherwise he's just whiny, impulsive, and immature. It's a shame we have to watch The Clone Wars to get the information that should have been in the Prequel Trilogy.
I hadn't put much thought into it but, after reading this, I have to agree. By Revenge of the Sith Palpatine/Sideous clearly had more influence over Anakin than the Jedi, who in many ways left Anakin feeling unwelcome.
Jedi-72
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Actually, those facts came straight out of an international study that was released earlier this year. I know that facts are another phenomenon in many places, certainly in the U.S., that are readily ignored and discarded in deference to "belief". But, as they say, the facts are the facts. They do all the "painting". They don't need any help from me.
And you're right. Every generation has said the same of the younger generations because it was true. Little by little there has been a steady degredation, kind of like the spread of cancer, of the quality of people we produce. It has conintually worsened from one generation to the next. But, there has been a rocket-propelled acceleration of the downward spiral, at least in the U.S., over the past 40 years or so. People can and do
argue with that. But it's always in denial of a fact-based reality. They can also argue that the world is flat. Doesn't make it so. It is what it is.
Actually, those facts came straight out of an international study that was released earlier this year. I know that facts are another phenomenon in many places, certainly in the U.S., that are readily ignored and discarded in deference to "belief". But, as they say, the facts are the facts. They do all the "painting". They don't need any help from me.
And you're right. Every generation has said the same of the younger generations because it was true. Little by little there has been a steady degredation, kind of like the spread of cancer, of the quality of people we produce. It has conintually worsened from one generation to the next. But, there has been a rocket-propelled acceleration of the downward spiral, at least in the U.S., over the past 40 years or so. People can and do
argue with that. But it's always in denial of a fact-based reality. They can also argue that the world is flat. Doesn't make it so. It is what it is.
Westies14
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
"Yes, every generation has said the same thing since the beginning of recorded history, but my generation is right!"
Where are the unbiased facts that support this? Polls that account for all possible factors and influence, which sample an undeniable percentage of the population in an effort to determine the quality of our offspring? It's an impossible measurement - it's opinion by it's nature.
By studying human history, through reading the stories of ancient civilizations and relatively recent ones, it's very clear that human nature is human nature and we continue to exist in about the same measures of kindness, ambition, arrogance, ego, hubris, and aggression.
Societal values change, and our inflexibility leads each generation to claim that the attitudes of the next will be the end of civilization. Abolishing slaveryresses above the knees didn't do it, neither did swing music or rock and roll, nor did women's suffrage, nor the Civil Rights movement, nor did heavy metal or grunge, nor will gay marriage or reality TV. Well, maybe reality TV...
I don't know if you have kids, but I know mine (and many of their friends) are better people than I. I see more to like in their generation than in mine or the generation before me. They're more tolerant and accepting; they're more articulate at an earlier age; they have the tools to explore so many interests more thoroughly than anyone before them and will likely produce more exceptional talents and successes by working with them from such an early age.
We hear about war and violence and terror more than ever before due to our increasingly connected world, but statistically violence of all kinds is on the decline. That's gotta count for something, and is actually a measurable fact which I'll give our generation and the next some credit for.
"Yes, every generation has said the same thing since the beginning of recorded history, but my generation is right!"
Where are the unbiased facts that support this? Polls that account for all possible factors and influence, which sample an undeniable percentage of the population in an effort to determine the quality of our offspring? It's an impossible measurement - it's opinion by it's nature.
By studying human history, through reading the stories of ancient civilizations and relatively recent ones, it's very clear that human nature is human nature and we continue to exist in about the same measures of kindness, ambition, arrogance, ego, hubris, and aggression.
Societal values change, and our inflexibility leads each generation to claim that the attitudes of the next will be the end of civilization. Abolishing slaveryresses above the knees didn't do it, neither did swing music or rock and roll, nor did women's suffrage, nor the Civil Rights movement, nor did heavy metal or grunge, nor will gay marriage or reality TV. Well, maybe reality TV...
I don't know if you have kids, but I know mine (and many of their friends) are better people than I. I see more to like in their generation than in mine or the generation before me. They're more tolerant and accepting; they're more articulate at an earlier age; they have the tools to explore so many interests more thoroughly than anyone before them and will likely produce more exceptional talents and successes by working with them from such an early age.
We hear about war and violence and terror more than ever before due to our increasingly connected world, but statistically violence of all kinds is on the decline. That's gotta count for something, and is actually a measurable fact which I'll give our generation and the next some credit for.
rodneyfaile
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
Once you slaughter a school full of Jedi younglings, I don't think you can come back from that. Sure, maybe you can reach a point where you understand just how horrible a thing you have done, and experience true regret and sorrow, but I don't think there is anything you could do to ever be considered "good" again.
That part of the prequels really ruined Vader for me. That is not an evil villain, that is sick.
Once you slaughter a school full of Jedi younglings, I don't think you can come back from that. Sure, maybe you can reach a point where you understand just how horrible a thing you have done, and experience true regret and sorrow, but I don't think there is anything you could do to ever be considered "good" again.
That part of the prequels really ruined Vader for me. That is not an evil villain, that is sick.
Edwardowan
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I agree. to have Vader end it all in RofJ to save luke and somewhat redeem himself was just enough. he was still evil vader that turned to the dark side and killed many and genocide... Yoda and Obiwan certainly didn't need to help or gift him with being able to return from the netherworld as a force ghost. let him rest and thank Luke for using vader as a tool as a means to the end. We sholuld never have felt any sympathy for Vader other than maybe that he was betrayed, tricked and enslaved... but Anakin still chose to do what he did... if he was a great Jedi then he would have sacrificed himself and tried to destroy Palpatine much sooner than he did. He was so close to palpy... even if he knew he couldnt' overpower and destroy sidious he would have at least died trying.
I agree. to have Vader end it all in RofJ to save luke and somewhat redeem himself was just enough. he was still evil vader that turned to the dark side and killed many and genocide... Yoda and Obiwan certainly didn't need to help or gift him with being able to return from the netherworld as a force ghost. let him rest and thank Luke for using vader as a tool as a means to the end. We sholuld never have felt any sympathy for Vader other than maybe that he was betrayed, tricked and enslaved... but Anakin still chose to do what he did... if he was a great Jedi then he would have sacrificed himself and tried to destroy Palpatine much sooner than he did. He was so close to palpy... even if he knew he couldnt' overpower and destroy sidious he would have at least died trying.
jme3
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
In this case the scripts had little to nothing to do with it; Sam Jackson simply was wrong for the part and George Lucas's reluctance to say "no" to his request to be in the movie created trouble. Sam Jackson is better at playing somebody from the 'hood, not a Jedi Knight. The dialog involved in that kind of character just sounded wayyyy too funny coming out of his mouth...
In this case the scripts had little to nothing to do with it; Sam Jackson simply was wrong for the part and George Lucas's reluctance to say "no" to his request to be in the movie created trouble. Sam Jackson is better at playing somebody from the 'hood, not a Jedi Knight. The dialog involved in that kind of character just sounded wayyyy too funny coming out of his mouth...
Edwardowan
Sr Member
seelsa73
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
This goes by the assumption that what you think a Jedi Master is supposed to be is exactly what they were intended to be. But the fact is you just don't really know cuz they didn't specifically say in the movies. Now the Clone Wars is explaining that you don't have to be a Master to train an apprentice.
Master would be an honorary title meaning that you have become a master of the Force, not necessarily a Master to an apprentice.
This goes by the assumption that what you think a Jedi Master is supposed to be is exactly what they were intended to be. But the fact is you just don't really know cuz they didn't specifically say in the movies. Now the Clone Wars is explaining that you don't have to be a Master to train an apprentice.
Master would be an honorary title meaning that you have become a master of the Force, not necessarily a Master to an apprentice.
Too Much Garlic
Master Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
And that's where the logic fails. If you are still in training, you are not fit to train someone else.
And that's where the logic fails. If you are still in training, you are not fit to train someone else.
seelsa73
Sr Member
jme3
Sr Member
jme3
Sr Member
thumbsup
Monkey67
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I can't stand Samuel L Jackson. I think he is a terrible actor that can only play one role. There is a reason i call him the "the angry Black man". All he ever plays is a guy that is mad n upset. I'm sick of him all together as a person n actor. He thinks he is the greatest actor of ages. I can't believed that he thinks he should have been up for an Oscar for playing the guy in D'jango. What ya do? You was in it for 20 minutes and played a angry black dude..that really acted like uncle Ruckus from the boondocks cartoon. Sorry dude, you're not special and will always be tight casted as a angry black dude in movies. Sorry, but at least you're getting paid well.
That's just my thoughts on him.
I can't stand Samuel L Jackson. I think he is a terrible actor that can only play one role. There is a reason i call him the "the angry Black man". All he ever plays is a guy that is mad n upset. I'm sick of him all together as a person n actor. He thinks he is the greatest actor of ages. I can't believed that he thinks he should have been up for an Oscar for playing the guy in D'jango. What ya do? You was in it for 20 minutes and played a angry black dude..that really acted like uncle Ruckus from the boondocks cartoon. Sorry dude, you're not special and will always be tight casted as a angry black dude in movies. Sorry, but at least you're getting paid well.
That's just my thoughts on him.
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
See that's the thing though, if they had better defined what it meant to be a Jedi master, then sure, Anakin having an apprentice would have made sense. I guess it would have worked for the cartoon. I don't know.
No one could have made the Mace Windu character any good. He simply wasn't a well written character. That was my point. It had nothing to do with Samuel L. Jackson. ANYONE could have taken that role, and it still would have sucked. I think he's a talented actor, but even his screen presence couldn't make that part interesting.
I have more issue with the writing of the PT. There were no dynamic characters that really stood out. Sure the designs were great, and I loved the costumes and props, but the story just plain blew.
See that's the thing though, if they had better defined what it meant to be a Jedi master, then sure, Anakin having an apprentice would have made sense. I guess it would have worked for the cartoon. I don't know.
No one could have made the Mace Windu character any good. He simply wasn't a well written character. That was my point. It had nothing to do with Samuel L. Jackson. ANYONE could have taken that role, and it still would have sucked. I think he's a talented actor, but even his screen presence couldn't make that part interesting.
I have more issue with the writing of the PT. There were no dynamic characters that really stood out. Sure the designs were great, and I loved the costumes and props, but the story just plain blew.
Edwardowan
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
exactly... the characters were dull and lifeless. in New Hope Han and Leia were fire and spunky! Luke at least had a sense of wonder and amazement and Obi Wan was even sly and daring creeping around the cantina looking for a pirate and cutting an arm off. The PT characters needed a little more oomph.
exactly... the characters were dull and lifeless. in New Hope Han and Leia were fire and spunky! Luke at least had a sense of wonder and amazement and Obi Wan was even sly and daring creeping around the cantina looking for a pirate and cutting an arm off. The PT characters needed a little more oomph.
Lutso
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
It's interesting that you bring this up. I actually think a big part of this problem was the issue that the PT tried to over-explain alot of things.
Just look at the character of Jango Fett. Just like Boba Fett in so many ways, but...we see his face. We hear him talk. We know where he lives. We know what he does. We know what his goal in life is. We know what type of person he is. If you read the comic about him you know what his past is like too. We know pretty much everything about him ever.
And in the process, this actually makes Boba a lot less interesting himself, since now we see where he came from. Boring...
To make a really good set of characters, you need to find a perfect balance of giving them enough of a background and personality (i.e. Han and Leia) without explaining things too deeply (Jango Fett).
Qui-Gon had absolutely no substance whatsoever, whereas Anakin had too much baggage and backstory. Jango Fett was too overdone, whereas General Grevious almost seemed like an afterthought, with little attention to his existence at all. Count Dooku was fairly well set up as far as information goes but had such little importance in the story itself that we quickly forget about him.
Obi-Wan at least approaches something that I would consider interesting. We know enough of his history that we care about him, but not enough (excluding the books) to make him boring. Unfortunately, this premise falls short because his writing is so dry and robot-like that he may as well have been shot in black and white.
The only character that remains truly intriguing is Palpatine.
It's interesting that you bring this up. I actually think a big part of this problem was the issue that the PT tried to over-explain alot of things.
Just look at the character of Jango Fett. Just like Boba Fett in so many ways, but...we see his face. We hear him talk. We know where he lives. We know what he does. We know what his goal in life is. We know what type of person he is. If you read the comic about him you know what his past is like too. We know pretty much everything about him ever.
And in the process, this actually makes Boba a lot less interesting himself, since now we see where he came from. Boring...
To make a really good set of characters, you need to find a perfect balance of giving them enough of a background and personality (i.e. Han and Leia) without explaining things too deeply (Jango Fett).
Qui-Gon had absolutely no substance whatsoever, whereas Anakin had too much baggage and backstory. Jango Fett was too overdone, whereas General Grevious almost seemed like an afterthought, with little attention to his existence at all. Count Dooku was fairly well set up as far as information goes but had such little importance in the story itself that we quickly forget about him.
Obi-Wan at least approaches something that I would consider interesting. We know enough of his history that we care about him, but not enough (excluding the books) to make him boring. Unfortunately, this premise falls short because his writing is so dry and robot-like that he may as well have been shot in black and white.
The only character that remains truly intriguing is Palpatine.
jme3
Sr Member
Re: Star Wars Episode VII
That and the fact that he's the only character with a clear motivation.
I think what you're referring to is that the peripheral characters were too far developed, playing a larger role in the story than was necessary, where major characters weren't developed enough so that we knew why they acted the way they did.
Luke wanted to get off the farm and have an adventure.
Leia wanted to make sure the Death Star plans made it to the rebels.
Han wanted to pay off his debt to Jabba, but was ultimately caught up helping the rebel cause.
Obi-Wan wanted to train Luke to become a Jedi with the hope that Luke would ultimately defeat Vader.
All examples of clear character motivations.
That and the fact that he's the only character with a clear motivation.
I think what you're referring to is that the peripheral characters were too far developed, playing a larger role in the story than was necessary, where major characters weren't developed enough so that we knew why they acted the way they did.
Luke wanted to get off the farm and have an adventure.
Leia wanted to make sure the Death Star plans made it to the rebels.
Han wanted to pay off his debt to Jabba, but was ultimately caught up helping the rebel cause.
Obi-Wan wanted to train Luke to become a Jedi with the hope that Luke would ultimately defeat Vader.
All examples of clear character motivations.
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