Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Pre-release)

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Solo4114 said:

That ship sailed in 2009.

Click to expand...

True. But now we will have to see a Star Wars film that looks and feels EXACTLY the same.

heiro5 said:

Super 8 doesn't look or feel like his Star Trek, I doubt his Star Wars will, either.

Click to expand...

No, It looked and felt like a Spielberg film.

While I feel Abrams has some talent I find his films somewhat formulaic and overly commercialized. I think he will make an entertaining Star Wars film but not a unique or memorable one.

I really wish Kasdan was writing and directing the first film in the new series. He would have set a unique tone and style for the films to follow.

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Pwrsrce said:

Hey Dan...Not calling you out or anything, but I've seen several people echo your same thoughts, and I'm honestly curious...

Exactly how did Abrams Trek seem in any way like Star Wars? I don't think they were anywhere close to the same vibe. Nothing in the production design reminded me of Star Wars...The ships were clean, the costumes were Trek all the way, the settings and locations looked like future earth and other Trek like locations...To me the whole thing was classic Trek, but more exciting.

In fact, the ONLY thing that remotely could have invoked Star Wars in my head was the fact that the ships actually moved faster than my grandmother in a wheelchair...Plus, there was action and humor... :cool

Jason

Click to expand...

No prob. I'm happy to explain.


The pacing is probably the biggest aspect. Trek films -- traditional Trek films, anyway -- don't have that kind of roller-coaster pacing where you're going from one action-packed scene to another. That's more a hallmark of the Star Wars films. Trek films are usually far more deliberate and have far fewer action sequences.

Then there's the pacing of the action itself. Everything in Trek '09 was "faster." The ships, the fights, hell, even the nature of the phasers. Instead of shooting concentrated beams that have to be held on a target for a second, they shoot pulses like Star Wars blasters. The fights with the ships feel less like naval battles and more like dogfights. The characters themselves, too, were fairly unlike their "previous continuity" counterparts. Yes, Kirk kicked butt in the previous films, but you never got the sense that he was this reckless daredevil. Some of that has to do with the actors' ages, but it also has to do with the characterization.


Basically, I see it like this. Trek films are usually a LITTLE more (not tons, but a little) character and plot-driven, rather than basically being roller-coaster rides. Trek '09 and the Star Wars films are absolutely roller-coaster rides that take us from action sequence to action sequence. That's not to say they don't have a central story, but the Star Wars films are very much about cool vignettes, whereas Trek films are a lot slower paced.

I'd also say that the Star Wars films are traditionally HEAVILY about the f/x. Trek films HAVE f/x, but they're less of an excuse to showcase the f/x. There are some momentary exceptions (e.g., in TMP when the Enterprise first goes to warp speed), but for the most part, the f/x aren't why you're there. In a Star Wars movie, at least PART of why you're there is the amazing f/x. (And in some cases, that's the only redeeming quality.) Trek '09 was very much an f/x showcase.


None of this is to say that Trek '09 wasn't entertaining as a movie, but to me it didn't "feel" like a traditional Trek movie. And that was kind of the point. They wanted to break the tradition, and so they went far more in the direction of the "feel" of a Star Wars film.

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

There are points to both sides of this, the haters and the lovers. Die hard Trek fans that were disappointed in the way Trek 09' was handled, and others that found a renewed appreciation for the Star Trek universe all be it because of the Star Wars flare that was added.

There were those of us that loved Lost, and were addicted to Fringe. And a great deal of us that felt like kids again when we watched Super8, and were thankful to both Spielberg and Abrams for that moment.

Granted, there are many of us that disliked all of the above, and everyone is entitled to an opinion. This is a discussion thread after all, what a boring place this would be without a variety of opinions.

Yes, there are many people that think this is a poor choice, and that there are many other directors out there that would have been a better fit to helm the new movies. But i guess what baffles me is this; Is there anyone, on either side of the fence, that is simply happy there will be more Star Wars in our lives?

I guess what this little rant boils down to is, I'm just happy there are some more movies coming our way, and I'll sit back and enjoy the ride. Because guys, right now . . . It doesn't suck!

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Right here! Very happy!

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Solo4114 said:

No prob. I'm happy to explain.

None of this is to say that Trek '09 wasn't entertaining as a movie, but to me it didn't "feel" like a traditional Trek movie. And that was kind of the point. They wanted to break the tradition, and so they went far more in the direction of the "feel" of a Star Wars film.

Click to expand...

Bravo sir. I will say that i was a huge fan of Trek 09' but that is largely due to the fact that I am more a Star Wars fan than Trek and you are correct in how the two were nearly joined in that film. (due to style and pace)

That being said, you are the first person to post an intelligent and well thought out reason as to why you as a "Trek" fan were somewhat disappointing in the film.

I have absolutely no reserve getting behind you on this, and seeing a valid point from someone who understands the Trek universe, and can articulate why the new film would have be a let down in continuity, character, and story.

Thank you for not simply saying, "JJ's Star Trek Sucks" and offering us a thought out perspective!

Brian

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Thanks Dan...That is indeed a very thought through explanation, and it makes sense to me. As I said in my original post, I can see how the speed and pacing would better recall Star Wars, but I had wondered if people actually thought they were starting to "look" the same...From the standpoint of how they actually...well...look.

I'm definitely not a "us vs. them" guy in relation to Wars or Trek...But I admittedly lean much more towards that galaxy far, far away.

Bottom line...I'm excited to have a new Star Wars film that is being directed by a guy that grew up loving the original trilogy...It should be a fun ride.

Jason

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Fuzzual said:

Bravo sir. I will say that i was a huge fan of Trek 09' but that is largely due to the fact that I am more a Star Wars fan than Trek and you are correct in how the two were nearly joined in that film. (due to style and pace)

That being said, you are the first person to post an intelligent and well thought out reason as to why you as a "Trek" fan were somewhat disappointing in the film.

I have absolutely no reserve getting behind you on this, and seeing a valid point from someone who understands the Trek universe, and can articulate why the new film would have be a let down in continuity, character, and story.

Thank you for not simply saying, "JJ's Star Trek Sucks" and offering us a thought out perspective!

Brian

Click to expand...

I'm actually more a Star Wars fan, myself, but I appreciated Trek for what it was and how it was different and consider myself a fan of that, too. So, while I enjoyed the movie as a roller coaster ride (certainly more than the average summer blockbuster), I was disappointed in it as a continuation of the Trek series. It felt to me like they'd given up part of what made Trek different. So, as a generic movie, it was entertaining. Can't deny that. But as a Trek film...yeah, a bit disappointing.

Pwrsrce said:

Thanks Dan...That is indeed a very thought through explanation, and it makes sense to me. As I said in my original post, I can see how the speed and pacing would better recall Star Wars, but I had wondered if people actually thought they were starting to "look" the same...From the standpoint of how they actually...well...look.

I'm definitely not a "us vs. them" guy in relation to Wars or Trek...But I admittedly lean much more towards that galaxy far, far away.

Bottom line...I'm excited to have a new Star Wars film that is being directed by a guy that grew up loving the original trilogy...It should be a fun ride.

Jason

Click to expand...

I think if you're a Star Wars fan who only really got on board Trek with the '09 entry, it makes perfect sense, and you have every reason to be excited about Abrams directing Episode VII. I think he'll be quite capable AS a Star Wars director, since that seems to be his sensibilities.

The look of the two universes is still different in many ways, but there's still a little bit of overlap. Obviously, the design of the ships and such remains very much in the Trek world (and the Apple store... ) but the way much of it is shot and the types of sequences are absolutely Star-Wars-esque to me.

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Apple store...hehehe...True dat!

Oh...And one other note on Trek. My cousin is married to a gentleman that worked on the original series...In fact, buried in his collection of memorablia is a miniature filming model of one of the alien ships. It's tiny, but cool...And you should hear some of the stories he has to share from the set! Wow!

Now...A little more to topic...I am curious as to why there has been no "official" confirmation of this announcement... 24 hours later and nothing... Complete radio silence.

Jason

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Solo4114 said:

No prob. I'm happy to explain.

Click to expand...

Actually, I think it can be summed up much more simply.

Traditionally, Star Trek is about ideas. Star Wars is about action.

That's why 2009 Trek felt more like a Star Wars film. After the very brief, but very Trek "duty over family" dilemma in the pre-credits scene, the one Big Idea presented (the almost genocide of an entire race) was glossed over and turned into little more than a plot device to "compromise Spock's emotions" and get Kirk in the captain's chair.

Now that the simple explanation is out of the way, time for the inevitable "but."

But...

The "idea" aspect of Star Trek has always worked MUCH better in the televised short form. The Motion Picture is a perfect example of that. It would have made a FANTASTIC episode, but it miserably fails as a film by virtue of being about an hour and a half too long.

What Trek needed in the films was "enough" action to satisfy a movie audience, while enough cerebral content to keep the Trek spirit.

Wrath of Khan nailed it. Space battles, revenge, aging, good of the many/few.

I think this is why it's been so difficult to get consistently good Star Trek films. Maintaining the right balance of heavy ideas with movie-worthy action is NOT easy. And when it goes wrong, it goes VERY wrong (Trek V, for example).

Star Wars, conversely, gets itself into big trouble when it tries to be too much about ideas. That's why there was no soul to the prequels. Lucas was preaching politics to us and forgot that his inspiration was Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon.

What I think people want out of Star Wars is a good adventure story with some nice good versus evil action. Theoretically, that should be much easier to produce than a Trek-worthy "idea" story. And it's much more up Abrams' alley.

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I'm not a JJ fan but it's true it could have been MUCH worse. Think Bay or Schumacher...

Here's the key... It has to have the same FEEL as the OT. That atmosphere, that universe. That's the biggest thing they lost in the PT. The OT didn't have great scripts, it was the atmosphere and concept that really sold it.

SO. Give me that lived in universe and we're good. Leave the glossy and pristine to Star Trek where it belongs (another franchise I love).

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

JJ Abrams is a hack film maker, that destroyed Star Trek. We're talking about a guy that can't even keep a camera still and he can't even keep light flares out of the filming process. There's some tech out there that makes it possible to make a movie without light flare why won't he use it? He will make Star Wars even worse. RIP Star Trek RIP Star Wars.

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Mark1701 said:

JJ Abrams is a hack film maker, that destroyed Star Trek. We're talking about a guy that can't even keep a camera still and he can't even keep light flares out of the filming process. There's some tech out there that makes it possible to make a movie without light flare why won't he use it? He will make Star Wars even worse. RIP Star Trek RIP Star Wars.

Click to expand...

:lol :lol I love well thought out posts, and intelligent discussions like this!

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Bigdaddy said:

:lol :lol I love well thought out posts, and intelligent discussions like this!

Click to expand...

I think he just signed up to post that, probably been working on this bit of hyperbole for weeks as well. :lol

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

I'm not a fan of the lens flares either but it was a stylistic approach, not a lack of camera savy on the part of the DP.

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Haha...Now THAT'S the kind of post I love to see. :rolleyes

Not only did he fail to keep flares out...Get this...He added them on purpose. They were supposed to be there. As was the camera motion.

Let's be honest...There is not a director living that will be able to totally recapture the magic of the original Star Wars trilogy. I get that. It was a different time, different place. But if there is anyone that will tackle it with zeal and do his best to make it feel like that again, I believe JJ could be that guy.

People begging for a Christopher Nolan Star Wars or Del Toro Star Wars just don't get it...Those guys are great at what they do, but that's not Star Wars. JJ is one of a very small list of current directors that could actually make this work. IMHO.

Jason

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

And to JJ's credit he acknowledged the lens flare in STAR TREK was a bit too much.

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Bryancd said:

And to JJ's credit he acknowledged the lens flare in STAR TREK was a bit too much.

Click to expand...

A *BIT*??? :lol

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Michael Bergeron said:

A *BIT*??? :lol

Click to expand...

That was a far as he was willing to concede. :lol

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

Bryancd said:

That was a far as he was willing to concede. :lol

Click to expand...

thumbsup

Re: Star Wars Episode VII

My only question about JJ Abrams directing Ep. VII is, will he be able to focus on Star Wars long enough to do a good job. Love him or hate him you have to admit that the man has what a friend of mine likes to call creative ADD, the man always seems to be juggling several different projects at one time. He starts a TV series only to start writing and/or directing a movie, all the while developing another TV series, only to start on another movie or two while thinking about his next 2 or 3 tv/movie projects. Just this year alone he has, according to IMDB, Person of Interest, Revolution, Star Trek Into Darkness, Wunderkind, Believe, and also has a sequel to Cloverfield in the works or at least planned. That's 4 different TV series or movies he's working on at various stages of production with another that he's at least in the initial brainstorming stage and who knows how many projects he'll have the rest of the year don't mention 2014 and he's already onboard for Mission Impossible 5 in 2015. I sincerely hope that he has enough creative focus to devote to Ep. VII while juggling the myriad of other projects he's bound to be working on at the same time as he's directing Ep. VII.