Thoughts on Studio Scale Elitism Disease (and treatment options)

ralphee said:

Then, there is the opinion, of the master pattern build group, of whether the model, really is a kit at all.
I recall having Jamie Farthing stomping up and down like a grumpy old troll because i called the Red Jammer kit......a kit...... :lol........if you figure that one out, let me know, im sure its a life lesson :facepalm.

lee

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Yeah, i believe that was a kit too. I do not recall people stating that they received all of the original parts from various commercially offered kits that ILM kit-bashed to make the Y-Wing instead of resin cast parts...and even parts that were cast together to make building easier.

BTW - I have no problem with kits at all. I own several and have even offered one.

Shadowknight said:

Yeah, i believe that was a kit too. I do not recall people stating that they received all of the original parts from various commercially offered kits that ILM kit-bashed to make the Y-Wing instead of resin cast parts...and even parts that were cast together to make building easier.

BTW - I have no problem with kits at all. I own several and have even offered one.

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Yeah, it was a kit, TJ, that wasnt really a kit, i think he tried to patent "labor intensive scratchbuild that took 15 years to make, then cast in tooling resin" as a tag.....but it wasnt very catchy......so we rudely labelled it a Garage Kit :lol.

lee

I guess I'll need to add the term "kit" to the list of things to say if you want to start a fight.

It is kind of like saying "grid" to a TOS modeler who insists there isn't a grid on the Enterprise. Just walk in, yell "GRID!" and watch the fun as you leave.

Im just equally satisfied looking at what everyone builds. I dont discriminate because I dont recognize judgement in the first place. I think that scratch build stuff like the Betty from IED is the same as someone that builds a one off original from crap lying around their house. It all falls under the same umbrella of imagination, pride and creation. Sure there are some huge builds but then stuff like the Top Gun Buzzing the tower diorama is just as awesome.

This whole thread is kind of messed up. I dont know where the Eletism thing came from. Its well known by some that i prefer Scratch build threads. so what. and really could care less if there in the SS section or general section. i enjoy watching some one take a flat piece of styrene or what ever and turn it into a cool model.

Ive built small models and yeah the Betty is huge. i build what people want. if tomorrow i get a job for a small tie fighter ill build that. because i love to build. Im just not a fan of the 20th resin X wing thread. but hey i dont bad mouth the guy for doing it. Its just not my cup of Tea. Does that mean your Eletist for prefering one type over another. you guys can decide.

JMChladek said:

It is kind of like saying "grid" to a TOS modeler who insists there isn't a grid on the Enterprise. Just walk in, yell "GRID!" and watch the fun as you leave.

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Now Jay, you just had to go there.....:facepalm

If you went there, you must clarify the grid TYPE - are you talking a pencil line grid on top (Yes), or scribed grid on top (no)??? lol:lol

Grids!

REL said:

A lot of times the repairs and modifications people do to build a resin kit will give them the required skillset to tackle a stand alone scratchbuild, so it's not all bad.

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This is how I learned... But I still kinda suck :$. There is definitely an aptitude for it, and I'm sure TONs of practice. I've mastered the scratch built relatively simple part... building everything from scratch and I'm screwed... But I can kitbash like a demon now and there is nothing that I'm afraid to "fix" on a kit :thumbsup

Jedi Dade

I just like seeing people build models. dont mind showing one or two when I get around to to it either.

Thats why I am here. Dont care about the rest.

Ozzy

Any size, any materials...I just enjoy the builds.
As a kid, I remember building a tiny Enterprise out of a poker chip and a chair caning peg (can't remember what I used for nacelles!). I believe it was my first attempt at a scratch build ever. I'd hate to think what might have happened if someone came along and told me I wasn't "doing it right"!:unsure

I can certainly appreciate someone thoroughly researching an original model and replicating the process themselves. Everyone also has different inspirations and ambitions, so their materials and goals will vary.

The only thing that worries me is the thought of someone being dissuaded from building because of a perception that there are "correct" ways and "incorrect" ways to go about it. One gains (especially as a kid) great tactile skills in doing things with their hands, and I'd hate to see absolutely everyone just playing video games instead.

If someone wants to make a ping-pong ball death star, or even something non-movie like a Henry Ford Quadricycle, I say "awesome!" The loss of something that could be to that which never will be, for whatever reason, would be a sad day to me.

Just as conventional wisdom "demands" that guys eat pizza and drink beer while watching Sunday football, I say go ahead and eat fruit roll-ups and drink rye and gingers if that is what you wish. Life is a non-ending flood of do's and don'ts, and a hobby like this is one chance to just be yourself and do your thing. That individual inside you will be all the better for it!

t2sides said:

If you went there, you must clarify the grid TYPE - are you talking a pencil line grid on top (Yes), or scribed grid on top (no)??? lol:lol

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Well, there was one guy where it didn't really matter what type of "grid" it was. Say it and it was like a four letter word to him. I'm not naming names, but he tended to label a person like me and some others as "kit assemblers" because we didn't carve our kits out of stone or other such nonsense. I admit the guy had a load of talent, but he also had an ego that rivaled Harlan Ellison's.

Rhymes with Schmerriman?

Off The Sprue...

That guy is a HOOT.

Yeah... the name kind of sounds like that.

I have loved building model kits and drawing ,painting sci if art from the age I first saw a new hope, the last time a built anything was over 12 years ago the age of my eldest child . I now have a chance with a bit more time available and with the next generation of Star Wars films coming and my son will be the approx age I was when I saw Star Wars, exciting times ( although he has seen much better quality films so his water mark is a lot higher than mine was when I saw Star Wars at age seven in March 1978 (back then we had to wait on the film to be shipped , not like now where we will see age of ultron before the states ))
back then the only real way to glean any model building techniques was sci fi and fantasy modelling magazine , cinefex , making of documentaries and movie large format books.
I recently received a model that has reignited my love of modelling, but coming across the Replica Prop Forum has been truly humbling. The amount of information shared here is amazing and even if I didn't build anything I love to watch skilful , artful builds being documented here.
i am very thankful with the openness shown here and thank you all.

as a newbie I know I have come In all Guns blazing so to speak and posted in others build treads and it has taken time to realise that maybe that wasn't following the ethics of the threads. Once I realised I started my own build thread ( in the wrong section ) LOL
Also being new to studio scale builds I was not aware of just how long some people have worked to glean the information they have, now I see when a new member ploughs in and asks a question like what is this diameter on a particular movie scale model, I understand it from the studio scale builders now how inappropriate these questions can seem to someone spending years to build something and the individual has not even attempted to try and calculate it themselves. AWKWARD I do wish there was a tumbleweed icon

I think forums in general and peoples reactions to the written word and misunderstanding the response that causes the biggest problems, I am a long serving member of a car forum and literally gave up even viewing it about 6 months ago because seeing the back and forth and posturing was exhausting. People asking questions were only hearing one individuals thoughts , no free speech really bad...... I don't think we can every solve this problem.

This forum is very, very good and probably the only reason there are problems is when a new fish is dropped into the shark tank LOL.

So I would say
newbies , wait a month , read the WHOLE thread and related threads before asking a single question , and if someone won't answer your question , there is a very good reason , either ask someone else or reread the WHOLE thread.......you've missed something

oldies take a breath before responding(we were all new once) and pm if were doing something stupid,

I agree with moffeaton if you don't like something (I don't mean accuracy or aesthetically ) don't answer

we ALL need encouragement with projects as they stall , so keep it light

Well said! I lurked for HALF A YEAR on the RPF in '98 before I posted. This place was HORRIFYING back in those days, lol.

+1. I lurked for months before posting something I happened to know the answer to. +10 on the read the whole thread before asking a question even if the thread is 100 pages long. If you are so special or important you can't then I'm so special or important not to bother responding if I do know the answer. Your time is no more special or important than mine is. Reading through will most likely give you way more than the answer to your question but answers to questions you haven't even thought of. And more importantly, a well founded perspective on the whole project.

Interesting to see this thread 'pop to the surface' after so long, but even more so close aboard my recent irritable-self sparring with MT about a perceived 'slight that smelled of elitism' comment. Firstly, Moffeaton your starting post was quite spot-on and reflects well your analytical skills beyond the modeling realm. Not being on board at the time, I nonetheless appreciate where you're coming from as I was many years ago myself taken to task for being a judgmental A-hole RE: another's work. Ah, wisdom! Now I see beyond the model to the modeler & his efforts in kinship to my own.

Also an interesting find here is JMChaldek's comment re: D. Meriman, which I have found typical of folks exposed to his public persona. Although certainly imbued with plenty of confidence and of strong & certain opinion, David, whom I consider a personal friend, is in my judgment always a man of context. Remove his commentary from its context and you easily lose any balanced picture of him & probably will "miss the point". Unfortunately, this is sometimes an obstacle to many - although I myself find it rather amusing.

Over many years, I found there is no doubting his enthusiasm for sharing the 'modeling arts' while also being capable of engaging with the efforts of others (meaning he is an avid student as well.) His many presentations (usually involving slideshows) to our local modeling clubs - composed primarily of 'kit assemblers, explaining practical 'real modeling' techniques is ample evidence of his true bent. The sometimes edgy wrapping is undoubtedly due to his background as a career sailor, a Navy diver no less & likely the source of his low tolerance for what he deems 'foolishness'. Even if many have found him less palatable because of it, I feel it lessens him not a whit since he can always back up his "BS".

Admittedly, as a lifelong modeling 'piddler' (aka, easily distracted), I am at the opposite end of the modelers' spectrum and perhaps subject to derision of my own. But even I have achieved many personally satisfying results often in no small measure to his ready encouragement and inspiration. I certainly have no fear of any modeling task in part through my exposure to him. So, if nothing else, I would submit that DM shouldn't be judged solely by his online persona - not that he would care about it any case - but rather given his due as a talented, skilled and enthusiastic modeling-brother-in-the-art.

Which is, incidentally what Moffeaton-san was getting at - understanding & tolerance of our fellow modeling brethren as members all struggling with 'the muse'.

A-hem, that went a bit long... well, I've never been accused with brevity.

Regards, Robert

We should have a motto for this hobby:

"Nobody is perfect, and you don't have to be a dick about it, sheesh"

:cool

Ha! Now that is concise!
R/ Robert

Okay let me say I have more or less been a lurker here for a long time. I saw some of the those old arguments here and how nastey they got and just decied to stay out of it. This was even when I was working as a profesioanl model maker. I had people on-line argue with me about projects I worked on. To have sometone tell me you are dead wrong when you are the guy who chose the part and glued it on the model was a bit much for me. Though I can not remember it that actually happend here. I did see it happen here. It has only been recently that I have started to post with any regularity.

Jason you are on the guys who I have followed for a long time and I love your work and have sent you messages over the years saying so. You have alos been a very level headed guy for the time I have been folowing you. Your talent is somewhat intimadating to me you are so good. but this palce is full of guys whos work is just amazing. and now that I am getting back in to building for myself I am still in awe of you guys.

it was funny that JMChladek mentiond David M I can remember his artilces in modeling magizines from when I was just a teenager. When I discovered him on line he seemed to be more then a bit of a troll. It kind of took me back a bit. I even sent him some messages asking him why be so nasty about this stuff. It has only been with time that i realized that those old artilces may have been sprinkelde with just as much that sort of elitest trolling he seemed to do on-line, but the editors had taken it all out. Leaving rather informitive articles. I read every article and post I could find by him and always found it funny how after a tirade about real modelers use profesional tools and supplys would be followed by a story of how he or his wife were injuried seriously by one of this home made, and rather unsafe tools. He may be a nice guy in real life, but it is very hard for me to think of him that way by the way he acts online.

I think modeling is modeling and that we can all learn from each other. I can learn from someone who just does this as a hobby if I keep my mind open about things. I have seen guys show up at club meetings that are just kids with amazing talent that can show guys that have been doing it for years a thing or two. So I for one embrace this new less acerbic fourm. I welcome any advice you guys can give me on the projects I am taking out of moth balls. Which will be some studio scale stuff and some old plastic and resin kits.

Best
Jeff