Phoenix225
New Member
Yeah, the whole theme park thing is because people aren't aware of the safety risks involving ANY of these high end costumes/props. These sabers are harder than a baseball bat, and can be considered actual weapons.
Ultra Sabers experience
- Thread starter Zendragon
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Well, I'm glad we have people like you out there looking out for everyone's best interests. Please continue with your campaign to shut people down with your letters and emails on copyright infringement and safety concerns. I'm sure the prop community as a whole will thank you.
No, the safety reasons are because people can think that when we're dressed up at a theme park like Disney, we can be confused for cast members, and people will think you work there. Whats the danger in that? What if you start cussing in front of the kids, or if you make rude body motions, and the visitors think you're representing Disney? Then you've given Disney a bad look, and offended Disneys visitors. It has NOTHING to do with copyright or danger with props being used as actual weapons. To say that the reason we can't dress up as characters at theme parks because of reasons like copyright laws is only taking away our creativeness as fans.
Phoenix225
New Member
I never said that you can't dress up because of copyright laws. I honestly don't give a crap about what disney does to those who dress up at the theme parks. The copyright laws have become a weapon that is usable against ultrasabers. That is all they are.
Phoenix225
New Member
IF you want to take down FX, why dont you do that. I have no problem with FX. Ultrasabers however is a blight to every customer and the entire community.
A quick look at their forum and member roster kinda refutes that. But whatever, "haters gonna hate". Like I said earlier, continue on with your crusade....:facepalm
I own two Ultrasabers, and their customer service defies the laws of physics by managing to both suck and blow at the same time. This is primarily the fault of Emory. I've never met the man in person, but every correspondence with him has had a heavy tinge of smugness and superiority. Ultra himself is far more even-keeled.
Their prices are exorbitant, bordering on highway robbery. I have it on good authority that they have a machinist that mills and lathes all their parts in large batches at a time, so there's no real reason why one of their sabers should be so expensive, nor does it explain the 2-3 weeks fabrication and shipping time. If you have all the parts there in your shop, it shouldn't take you any more than twenty minutes to locate parts and assemble a basic saber body. I will concede a 3-4 hour window to allow for the electronics to be assembled and placed in the hilt and/or for specialty items like covertec wheels or adding of parts not typically found on that style of saber (such as claws or whatnot).
No, what they have is an assembly line process of interchangeable parts (many using the MHS system blatantly stolen from TCSS) that allows them to use real resources to create new ideas, such as the Totally-Not-A-Sword-Of-Omens (an absolutely horrendous design and a complete waste of resources. I personally think it was just a fantasy in Emory's head that he was finally able to realize).
That said, folks, do not go and harass the guys at saberforum. While it may be owned by Ultrasabers, the only people there who work for Ultrasabers are Ultra and Deep (Emory's username). The rest of the folks there (myself included) do not work for them and don't deserve to have crap lobbed at them.
Their prices are exorbitant, bordering on highway robbery. I have it on good authority that they have a machinist that mills and lathes all their parts in large batches at a time, so there's no real reason why one of their sabers should be so expensive, nor does it explain the 2-3 weeks fabrication and shipping time. If you have all the parts there in your shop, it shouldn't take you any more than twenty minutes to locate parts and assemble a basic saber body. I will concede a 3-4 hour window to allow for the electronics to be assembled and placed in the hilt and/or for specialty items like covertec wheels or adding of parts not typically found on that style of saber (such as claws or whatnot).
No, what they have is an assembly line process of interchangeable parts (many using the MHS system blatantly stolen from TCSS) that allows them to use real resources to create new ideas, such as the Totally-Not-A-Sword-Of-Omens (an absolutely horrendous design and a complete waste of resources. I personally think it was just a fantasy in Emory's head that he was finally able to realize).
That said, folks, do not go and harass the guys at saberforum. While it may be owned by Ultrasabers, the only people there who work for Ultrasabers are Ultra and Deep (Emory's username). The rest of the folks there (myself included) do not work for them and don't deserve to have crap lobbed at them.
Phoenix225
New Member
I have to disagree with you here, anyone who is on saberforum.com who actually believes what is posted there deserves to have every drop of **** in the world dropped on their heads. They PURPOSELY remove all negative reviews of their products from those forums, like they did at FX at one point. Yup, thats right, Ultra (Alex) was a ****ing MOD.
Well, I'm going to step out of my shell here for a minute and say-
Damn dude, what is your problem? O.K. we get it, you don't like Ultra Sabers. You think they're dangerous weapons that fall apart and spew life threatening hot glue all over the place. And you have made it abundantly clear it is your goal in life to take the company down. Good luck with your quest. I'm moving on...
Damn dude, what is your problem? O.K. we get it, you don't like Ultra Sabers. You think they're dangerous weapons that fall apart and spew life threatening hot glue all over the place. And you have made it abundantly clear it is your goal in life to take the company down. Good luck with your quest. I'm moving on...
dday
Sr Member
Well, I must say, not being able to add 2 covertec clips to a fresh order is laughable. It is not like they have to make the clips as well. Toss em into the package, send a "top-up" bill and be done with it. Happy customers, happy business.
The responses by the UltraSaber employee to the OP is reprehensible. Unless this person is a founding member, owner or bound in blood to the owner, he should be fired. How he acted in this case and it seems others is inexcusable. If this person stays on the team, he should be removed from a customer facing role. A CS agent needs to be able to swallow their pride, because it is not about them or their product, it is about the customer.
It bodes well that the owner of the shop has admitted to their faults and is willing to work to do better. It is a start.
The responses by the UltraSaber employee to the OP is reprehensible. Unless this person is a founding member, owner or bound in blood to the owner, he should be fired. How he acted in this case and it seems others is inexcusable. If this person stays on the team, he should be removed from a customer facing role. A CS agent needs to be able to swallow their pride, because it is not about them or their product, it is about the customer.
It bodes well that the owner of the shop has admitted to their faults and is willing to work to do better. It is a start.
Phoenix225
New Member
The CS Agent that responds is a co-owner. Yes, a co-owner of the company treats customers like ****.
dday
Sr Member
This being the case, then this person needs to be removed from a customer facing role. They are way to attached to their brand. It's great to be proud of your product, but what he posted and the way he went about it was completely wrong. Unfortunately this world is full of people like this, we just hope to not have to deal with them very often :/
Phoenix225
New Member
This all started 3 years ago in a lenses vs reflectors thread over at FX. I did an experiment under controlled conditions. (Pitch black room, camera shutter on a VERY fast speed, exact same ISO settings, fstop, distance from sabers etc.) Turned on two IDENTICAL sabers on a saber stand (at different times), with identical configurations, except one had the ultrasabers stock configuration (reflector), the other had a lens to replace the reflector. The one with the lens let 3x more light up the blade.
Instead of taking this information and using it, Alex (Ultra) the ******* that he is, lost his mind and started posting doctored images of people holding his sabers in broad daylight with the sabers being brighter than any other sabers could ever be in daylight, saying that these sabers were done with reflectors, and that even though a LENS assembly was less than a quarter of the price, they use reflectors for efficiency. This, was a stupid move, because I was familiar with the people who's pictures he doctored and posted one of the originals. This set him off because he was caught, lying and doctoring images, and instead of being a human being about it and conceeding. I also showed him the specs sheets of the reflectors and the lenses, and it showed the reflectors had a higher angle of reflection, and about 20% less efficiency than the lenses. His response to trying to reason with him and prevent him from distributing doctored information was to lose his mind, post a picture of himself, and a picture of multiple people holding his sabers, and then rip an image of me out of a youtube video that I recorded (when I was across the room and very pixelated in the mirror), and start demanding my personal information, way beyond just a name, as if he wanted to attack me. He then started holding it all against the group I was with, refusing to do business with them. All of this occured because of the above image.
After his behavior, I started looking into them a lot more deeply. I found out that Alex at one point was an FX-Sabers Admin and had been deleting EVERY negative review of his sabers (and there were MANY). At the time of the original posting, it was believed that ultrasabers were throwaway sabers when they broke (it was believed that ALL parts were epoxied in), but then I decided to try to repair one for a friend and managed to take it apart. What I found was a MESS of hot glue, scotch tape, improper parts and junk, this was, and in some sabers still is their heatsink assembly:
That LED is a Luxeon 3. It reaches 300 degrees celcius in 5 minutes without heat dissipation. Its heat is being dissipated by hot glue (an insulator), with a hex nut (steel, not a very good heat conductor) glued to it, along with a cheap plastic reflector not meant for the LED. What happens when this is left on for a couple of minutes is the hex nut falls out of the back, then the glue heats up more, and becomes completely liquid. This glue can then easily shoot out of the front of the saber, and at that temperature can cause up to 3rd degree burns. Ultrasabers doesn't manufacture their blade holders to a tight 1 inch ID, so there's space between the blade and the metal that a liquid could easily pass through.
Then you have the issue of them trying to injure my friends by purposely overcharging a pair of unprotected lithium ion batteries. My friends went to the Ultrasabers Booth at Dragon Con in 2011, and showed off a pair of sabers I made in front of Alex and Emory. The sabers had easily 3 times the brightness of anything at the Ultrasabers Booth. Alex inquired as to who made the sabers, and my friend said "Our friend, Phoenix." My friends returned later and purchased sabers from ultra, a decision i'll never understand. Anyway, these batteries turn into fire bombs when overcharged and will eventually burst in a jet of flames out of either side of the battery. It's actually illegal to ship unprotected lithiums via Air Mail without declaring them, and the shipping standards for protected lithiums is that they be discharged to 3.7V. These were charged to 4.56V (0.36V above max charge, which is enough to make them swell). One of them exploded not 3 minutes after removal. The pressure change of an airplane would have caused explosion in both batteries during the flight. Anyway, they overcharged these batteries and sold them in a $270 value saber at 80% off. So for $60, they were given a pipe bomb waiting to explode. They weren't told the saber was rechargeable, nor were they given a charger. As well, in order to even overcharge these batteries, the batteries need to have no protection circuit and the charger needs to have safety devices removed or shorted out. This takes malicious premeditated intent, and Alex and Emory both had it.
Then you have the NovaStar Incident. Alex has the Obsidian Board manufactured, and had a deal with a contract with Novastar for Novastar to get paid for the sounds and the boards (Nova made all the sounds). Ultra broke the contract and stole all of Novastar's sound fonts, and is STILL giving them away for free. Oh, also the Obsidian board creates heat and its encased in Epoxy, an insulator.. Great job, that's like saying "its made to break".
Then you have their flouting of all the copyright laws on earth. They use the MHS system without permission. They make replicas against disney/lucas licensing (but they look away from that), but now they've stolen thundercats trademarks, Warner does not look away from that. Every time Ultrasabers does something wrong in business or in the saber building industry, they act like it's not a problem and either delete or ignore the complaint in some way. They have no care for their customers, only the money they get. Negative reviews don't stop them, an F from the BBB doesn't stop them. A violated contract doesn't stop them. Cancelled paypal transactions don't stop them. There have been many attempts to stop this guy from distributing the crap he distributes that could actually hurt people via many methods, all have failed.
However, with the thundercats saber, they've given the community a weapon that can be used against them. Warner Brothers takes IP infringement very seriously, and they have lawyers that Alex and Emory cannot defend themselves against. You use the weapons a company like ultrasabers gives you against them.
Okay, so you're saying that people who have had a positive experience with Ultrasabers products are somehow magically responsible for the bad things and should share the blame?
Seriously?
I found this on the ground. I think you may have dropped it:
I've never had an issue with the company itself, nor have I had an issue with Alex. Alex takes criticism as a chance to improve. Unfortunately, Emory handles most of the customer service and seems to take criticism as a personal insult to himself and his abilities. It wouldn't surprise me if half or more of the problems that Ultrasabers has are being kept from Alex. To be honest, as others have said already, Emory needs to step back from the Customer Service aspect and let Alex or someone else handle it.
If you reacted with ONE TENTH of the fire and brimstone vitriol you have displayed in this thread, I don't blame him for getting upset with you. I' be pretty pissed if you came after me like that, even if it was deserved. People do not react well to an attempted public shaming.
You're complaining about a saber built a while back. Your arguments would have more merit if you disassembled one from today, as technology has changed. Your arguments are about as effective as complaining about Windows Vista.
Yes, I'm sure that they talked amongst themselves and said "Hey, let's deliberately set out to sabotage our own products just because these two happen to know some guy that happens to have the same nickname as someone we had an argument a while back, just in case it's the same guy. Nevermind the fact that we're successful despite the allegations."
Stop dropping these things, man:
A device that has electricity passing through metal wires generates heat? SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!
Questionable business practices aside, the crux of your hatred seems to be geared from something that happened YEARS ago. Possibly because despite your best efforts, you can't seem to make them go away.
Let it go, dude.
Oh, and here's another to add to your collection.
Phoenix225
New Member
No, they're not responsible for the bad things ultrasabers does, but if they were able to SEE the negative reviews fairly, I guarantee you that they'd lose at least 1/3 of the customers they have.
Also, Emory does answer around 90% of their customer support requests, if you don't act like you're giving him head, he won't help you.
As for the 'public shaming', Alex actually shamed himself. When he posted the doctored images I responded by saying "Very nice, it's too bad those images are modified" and then posted the original image that was modified (I happen to be friends with one of the people in the pictures and had access to the original album). That triggered him to go nearly insane, caring more about finding out who I was and how he could do something to me rather than correcting his mistake.
It doesn't matter if that saber was built a while back. It shows their contempt for doing things properly, and as well, I have found that assembly in a few current sabers, bought within the last 6 months. I guess they have different people doing the electronics assembly too, and when emory does it, he still uses the 'old' methods.
Yes, they did deliberately sabotage that product. Too many coincidences for it to not have been done on purpose. First: They knew the two people were friends of mine, they knew I own Phoenix Sabers at the time, and it was made very clear that I was the one who made them. Second: They sold the saber for 80% off. Noone normally sells a saber for 80% off. Third: They used UNPROTECTED lithium ion batteries (that has to be done purposely). Fourth: they didn't let my friends know that it had lithiums, and led them to believe it was running on AAs. Fifth: The batteries were overcharged to over 4.5V. The only way to do this is with a charger that has been modified to do so, as all the chargers US sells have protection circuits. Sixth: the saber did in fact have an improper LED driver inside, meant for a flashlight to take 3xAAA batts normally, and it was being fed the power from 2 lithiums (2x 3.7-4.2V). Seventh: There was NO heatshrink on any of the wiring. Either they're SO incompetent that they made that many mistakes all at once in a single saber, or they did it purposely.
Now you say that the obsidian being encased in epoxy is not such a bad thing? Electricity going through metal is one thing, encasing a heat generating device in an insulator is another. Epoxy on a sound board actually causes more failures than it's worth, especially because it's powering devices that run on an Amp or more.
Who cares if my hatred for them comes from a year ago. They continue to exhibit questionable business practices. Alex at time, and Emory especially ATTACK those who don't agree with how they do things. At least ONE co-owner of the company continues to treat customers like ****, and they are still distributing stolen material. When is enough, enough? Do they have to take down a plane by shipping unprotected overcharged lithiums in a saber? Should we have to wait until their negligence gets a kid severely hurt?
Also, Emory does answer around 90% of their customer support requests, if you don't act like you're giving him head, he won't help you.
As for the 'public shaming', Alex actually shamed himself. When he posted the doctored images I responded by saying "Very nice, it's too bad those images are modified" and then posted the original image that was modified (I happen to be friends with one of the people in the pictures and had access to the original album). That triggered him to go nearly insane, caring more about finding out who I was and how he could do something to me rather than correcting his mistake.
It doesn't matter if that saber was built a while back. It shows their contempt for doing things properly, and as well, I have found that assembly in a few current sabers, bought within the last 6 months. I guess they have different people doing the electronics assembly too, and when emory does it, he still uses the 'old' methods.
Yes, they did deliberately sabotage that product. Too many coincidences for it to not have been done on purpose. First: They knew the two people were friends of mine, they knew I own Phoenix Sabers at the time, and it was made very clear that I was the one who made them. Second: They sold the saber for 80% off. Noone normally sells a saber for 80% off. Third: They used UNPROTECTED lithium ion batteries (that has to be done purposely). Fourth: they didn't let my friends know that it had lithiums, and led them to believe it was running on AAs. Fifth: The batteries were overcharged to over 4.5V. The only way to do this is with a charger that has been modified to do so, as all the chargers US sells have protection circuits. Sixth: the saber did in fact have an improper LED driver inside, meant for a flashlight to take 3xAAA batts normally, and it was being fed the power from 2 lithiums (2x 3.7-4.2V). Seventh: There was NO heatshrink on any of the wiring. Either they're SO incompetent that they made that many mistakes all at once in a single saber, or they did it purposely.
Now you say that the obsidian being encased in epoxy is not such a bad thing? Electricity going through metal is one thing, encasing a heat generating device in an insulator is another. Epoxy on a sound board actually causes more failures than it's worth, especially because it's powering devices that run on an Amp or more.
Who cares if my hatred for them comes from a year ago. They continue to exhibit questionable business practices. Alex at time, and Emory especially ATTACK those who don't agree with how they do things. At least ONE co-owner of the company continues to treat customers like ****, and they are still distributing stolen material. When is enough, enough? Do they have to take down a plane by shipping unprotected overcharged lithiums in a saber? Should we have to wait until their negligence gets a kid severely hurt?
Yet you advocate giving them as much crap as you think the company deserves... Nice.
Secondly, I believe I stated the same thing without resorting to crude language.
You're just begging for another tinfoil hat, aren't you?
Prove it. Show me evidence of this on a saber design they have released in the last six months. By the way, that would a Scorpion or an Omen.
Eigth: They deliberately risked lengthy prison sentences in order to exact petty revenge over words on a computer screen by someone else from a year previous.
Do you realize how utterly bat-guano insane that sounds? It seems like you have a persecution complex more than anything else.
Did I? You might want to go back and reread what I wrote, chief. Don't put words in my mouth.
The board is going to fail one way or another. It's a sensitive electronic circuit board encased in a metal tube and exposed to extensive centripital force and impact jarring from combat, all of which can damage the connections. The coating protects it from the worst of these issues, at the expense of being an insulator. Truth be told, a circuit board of that voltage and amperage would have to be powered on 24/7 for a week or more before the heat would start to damage anything, even with the epoxy coating on.
Anyone who will listen will care about your feelings. Like it or not, no matter what legitimate concerns you may have, your attitude about it will be what people remember. Right now you are coming off as a raving madman with a personal vendetta. People tend to ignore raving madmen with personal vendettas.
Dude, you're not only on the crazy train... you're driving.
Phoenix225
New Member
I don't advocate giving their customers the crap the company deserves, but they should all have ACCESS to what the company has done.
It shouldn't be still being used in ANY of their saber designs, it doesn't matter if it was a scorpion or an omen. (It was actually in a prophecy V3, a pair of initiates, a liberator v3 and a few grab bag sabers.). That being said, it shouldn't be being used in ANY of their sabers, especially now that they have the new proper modules with proper heatsinks (and yes, they have 2 models of it, and one or the other fits in EVERY model of their sabers).
Fact of the matter is its a coincidence that can't be denied. There is NO way a lithium ion battery can get overcharged to the point of explosion without the batteries not having overcharge/undercharge protection boards AND the charger that they used being modified in a way to allow that to happen. (It actually takes removal and modification of more than one circuit.) Those batteries were overcharged on purpose, and the fact of the matter is, two people would be dead if they flew from Dragon Con back to NY rather than drove. One of the batteries exploded not 10 feet away from me, under safe conditions, shortly after I removed them from the saber. I managed to safely discharge the other one.
Now, yes, you say they risked lengthy prison sentences.... I don't think they care about prison or the law at all. They violate copyright law, they actually have a broken contract, and they give away pirated sound fonts. Considering the number of felonies they commit on a daily basis, they'd probably both be up for 25 years or more anyway. What's murder on top of that?
Okay, lets make it not personal, this is how Emory treated a customer who wasn't me. (Ultra sent him sabers that were scratched up).
Hey Guys,
I just received this lovely jewel from Emroy this morning. I should state for the record that I only sent him 3 emails in total along with pictures of my scratched up sabers. I wasn't rude, I simply told him that I wasn't happy with the quality of the product I received (in paying an excess of $550 for my items). Please do not buy from these fools, do yourself a favour and search around like I should have done...
Hello,
People like you are pathetic. Please waste your time "going out of your way" because that is exactly what you will be doing. People are going to keep buying our sabers because we make the best sabers sabers, at the best price, with the best service. It speaks for itself. I'm going to wake up tomorrow and there are going to be dozens upon dozens of orders in our queue. Because our product is great and people get better service and prices here than anywhere else. No one is going to care for the word of a fanatic that sends twenty emails in a row without bothering to wait for a response in regards to imaginary scratches and features on a saber you paid for that you didn't even bother to read about. You aren't the crazed and impractical consumer to go off on some rant like this and you won't be the last. And we will still be making great lightsabers today and tomorrow and people will keep buying them.
I'm sorry to aren't happy with your order. But your reasons are impractical and your methods are beyond impatient and rude. Don't expect me to respond with anything but in kind because I don't have to.
My customers know we are the best and they have experienced the great service we offer for themselves. And because of that the new customers will keep coming too. So please sit at your computer and go on your pathetic witch hunt against Ultrasabers. I hope it makes you feel better in the morning.
Enjoy your life. I'm off to have fun at this convention and sale a few thousand sabers while I'm at it.
Peace.
-Emory Harris
You'd be right about this if the board wasn't running a high output sound driver as well as driving one or more high LEDs. Those wattages cause much more heat generation than usual, encasing the board in solid epoxy is actually worse than hot glue on the LEDs. I've seen people screaming on other forums about them being blown out within the first few days of getting them, and claiming the epoxy looked like it was starting to melt off. I can't verify that story of course, but it does make sense.
Damn right I have a personal vendetta. This company's negligence has caused enough problems in the community as it is. You warn people ONCE and when their ultrasaber does break due to one of the reasons I warned them about, what do they do? Go out and buy another and keep fueling the machine. Everyone who's ever tried to fight back in some way or post negatively about them has been silenced in the past. It's sickening.
I'm sorry, what? Your previous post says otherwise...
Again, prove it. You SAY that you've seen the same thing, but I've yet to see you back it up. I can say all day long that I'm a millionaire triathlete male model who shares a bed at night with Emma Stone, Jennifer Lawrence, and Jenni Lee, but you've got no reason to believe my claims unless I can back them up.
Blah blah blah persecution complex.
Where is the felony?
Copyright infringement? As you have repeatedly stated, the SW folks don't particularly care about the sabers.
Broken Contracts are civil matters, not criminal.
Pirated sound fonts? You have to have a viable complaint that is worth the state's time.
Well... that escalated quickly...
Again, provided that this exchange is genuine (I have my doubts about any of your claims at this point), this would come down to Emory being a poor CSR. Emory. Not Ultrasabers.
By the way, Ultra himself did not send scratched-up sabers. The company did.
You seem to have a real issue with separating the people from the company.
Also, the tone of the non-Emory part of that exchange seems awfully familiar... Funny how you went out of your way to insist that the customer was not you, even though the vitriol makes it sound like you. I would also want to see the previous emails sent to Ultrasabers that sparked the tirade from Emory. All we're seeing here is one side of the story.
It doesn't matter, because the input and output voltage and amps are going to be the same, therefore the wattages will be the same or less (Watts = Volts x Amps). There is only so much heat that the board can generate, unless you're saying that Ultrasabers defies basic electrical laws by generating more heat than is possible given the energy and materials...
I know what your problem is. Alex and Emory have inflicted the worst kind of punishment upon you.
They treat you as if you are irrelevant.
- Status
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