SS TIE Fighter: Buildup of Nice-N Models Hero Kit
- Thread starter imaginager
- Start date
imaginager
Sr Member
I'd like to thank everyone for their comments and interest. Recently, I was contacted with regard to building a Nice-N Models Hero TIE on commission. I declined because commission work can be problematic. However, in considering my response it occurred to me that this thread may not be the best bellwether for the membership. Candidly, anyone who is interested in this kit should know that it requires significant skill. There are also some proportions to the model that may seem not to match subjective "visions" of the onscreen model. For informational purposes, here is a breakdown of the kits and their differences.
[attachmentid=10943]
As a matter of builder opinion, some may find that this kit has idiosyncrasies that I have not emphasized in the posts to my build-up thread. I do not want others to feel that my thread is misleading, so here is a rundown of what to expect.
The top and bottom hatches are not parallel when the model is viewed from the front or back. Instead, there is an angle between the two and the vertex of that angle is on the starboard side of the model.
A longitudinal measurement of the hull indicates that the starboard side of the hull’s ball is 3.5 – 4.0mm shorter than the port side. Obviously, 3-4mm isn't much. The angle between the hatches probably contributes to the hull's irregular look. However, this characteristic probably isn't noticeable to most.
The detail sides of the central hubs of all of the wingstars in my kit are crisp, but not flat. All of mine have a 3.0 – 5.0mm height difference between opposite sides of the hub. Again, this doesn't seem like a big deal until you are ready to attach the stars to the hull pylons. It may be necessary to shim the wingstars so that they are mounted perpendicular to the hull pylons. These pieces are individually poured, and are quite difficult to cast. There can be variations. Regardless, the builder will want to replace the t-rod on the strut tops.
Everyone will have their own subjective opinions of any kit. Some will see additional work, where others won't. Premium builds can result from either perception. As Ryan points out, the model is a replica of a filming miniature. It is not a replica of a real world vehicle. Buyers and builders need to understand that work, beyond mere assembly and painting, needs to be done to complete the kit according to the owner's "vision" of the iconic fighter.
I don't mean for that to sound conceited. Assembling models is mostly proper technique and patience.
[attachmentid=10943]
As a matter of builder opinion, some may find that this kit has idiosyncrasies that I have not emphasized in the posts to my build-up thread. I do not want others to feel that my thread is misleading, so here is a rundown of what to expect.
The top and bottom hatches are not parallel when the model is viewed from the front or back. Instead, there is an angle between the two and the vertex of that angle is on the starboard side of the model.
A longitudinal measurement of the hull indicates that the starboard side of the hull’s ball is 3.5 – 4.0mm shorter than the port side. Obviously, 3-4mm isn't much. The angle between the hatches probably contributes to the hull's irregular look. However, this characteristic probably isn't noticeable to most.
The detail sides of the central hubs of all of the wingstars in my kit are crisp, but not flat. All of mine have a 3.0 – 5.0mm height difference between opposite sides of the hub. Again, this doesn't seem like a big deal until you are ready to attach the stars to the hull pylons. It may be necessary to shim the wingstars so that they are mounted perpendicular to the hull pylons. These pieces are individually poured, and are quite difficult to cast. There can be variations. Regardless, the builder will want to replace the t-rod on the strut tops.
Everyone will have their own subjective opinions of any kit. Some will see additional work, where others won't. Premium builds can result from either perception. As Ryan points out, the model is a replica of a filming miniature. It is not a replica of a real world vehicle. Buyers and builders need to understand that work, beyond mere assembly and painting, needs to be done to complete the kit according to the owner's "vision" of the iconic fighter.
I don't mean for that to sound conceited. Assembling models is mostly proper technique and patience.
If you think your kit is difficult, you should see the gen 1 kit with the 2-piece fuselage. In his defense, Steve was very clear with me that this first gen version was not intended to be a kit - he just sold it unfinished to those who wanted it that way, with a caveat that it was a difficult build.
-RAJ
-RAJ
Great review. Glad it found the way into the hands of a true master. Cant wait to see it finished. Took some advise and am removing the "T" rod from the wing masters. Will buy a bunch from plastruct and include 24 pieces of ABS T rod with each wing set.
If you can give me a tracing of your wing center, I can have them laser cut and I could include the 1mm styrene centers as well. Looks like you got the ESB version nailed. What ever will make it easy for the builder.
We got some work to do on the hero. MSalzo has given me some pointers on how to mold the wings flat so i think I'm gonna givie it a try. Seems that is the biggest problem, its far from perfect thats for sure. Thanks Mike.
Allan keep up the inspiring work, maybe one day I'll build another and follow your lead.
Steve
If you can give me a tracing of your wing center, I can have them laser cut and I could include the 1mm styrene centers as well. Looks like you got the ESB version nailed. What ever will make it easy for the builder.
We got some work to do on the hero. MSalzo has given me some pointers on how to mold the wings flat so i think I'm gonna givie it a try. Seems that is the biggest problem, its far from perfect thats for sure. Thanks Mike.
Allan keep up the inspiring work, maybe one day I'll build another and follow your lead.
Steve
belleauwood
Well-Known Member
Alan,
Sorry if you feel you were not given "value" for your kit. I still think "flaws" and all, that it was a smoking deal and one hell of a starting off point, but thatÂ’s my opinion, and you have yours, and we'll just have to leave it at that. I do want to keep this civil, but it is hard. I've put way too much time in this, and I think that its all together possible that you may have one of the last HERO ties, as I know I'm pouring one more for myself and thatÂ’s that, I will not pour another. Steve can pour all he wants, but I'm done with these for sure.
All I'm gonna say is this . . . DO NOT Read between the lines and assume malice is there, its not, just pointing out some facts . . .
1. I never wanted to have the HERO as a kit, it was intended as an in house build-up for sale only. Yes, Steve sold a few. Yes, as the resin monkey, I was NEVER very happy with that decision, based on how much work I knew was going to have to go into getting a set of wing stars. Yes, I've pulled a lot of stars, and yes, out that "lot", I had only enough good ones for a *few* kits. Big waste of time, rubber (three different sets of molds, and still issues), and too much bad will because of delays.
2. The ILM wing stars AFAIR were naked, ie no greeblies. That was looked at as an option, but again, then we get into even more rubber, more pours, more time . . . So it was dismissed. I may be wrong on this, but thatÂ’s what I remember. So, with the level of detail, we were stuck in a compromise, either we could jacket the heck out of it and have 100% straight casting, but tons of air-bubbles as it will not fit in the pot for pressure as its poured flat and the pot is vertical, or a bubble free crisp detail with some possible deflection of the parts that should be able to be fixed by a builder. I guess we chose the wrong compromise for what you were looking for. Again, since this was intended originally for in house build ups only, that did not seem to be an issue.
3. No studio original, or for that matter, kit has ever been made that was 100% symmetrical. Yes, the ball may be off, and some other details accordingly. ThatÂ’s just the way they are. There are 2 schools of though on this, and I used to subscribe to the second, but now I go with the first, as its truer to the "studio scale" replica philosophy. To each his own, but I suspect you believe in #2 mostly, with some leanings toward #1 in you choice of pilot etc.
"The two school of though on Studio Scale Models.
School One: The original model was thrown together by a guy on a budget who had worked 80 hours that week trying to make deadlines, go home and get some sleep and a beer, and is a far from perfect model that will be hard pressed to stand up to any kind of scrutiny, but will look just fine on a camera pass. A "Studio Scale" replica of that includes ALL the flaws, the so called "Warts and all" belief.
School Two: This is a MODEL of an PHYSICAL SUBJECT, and a if full size, "real" item would not have these flaws, then they should not be on my studio scale model. This is not a replica anymore, but an "Idealized" model that happens to be in studio scale.
Semantics, I know, (hey I'm always up for some antics, oh wait . . .) but it DOES matter, as this was intended to be a Studio Scale Replica, not a in Studio Scale Model of a 100% perfect subject.
4. I know that any issue you may have had with the kit, and this applies to anyone, if we have been able to address it and help out, we would. If you were that unhappy with the wingstars, how come we find out now? Everybody loves to bash Steve for his communication skills, but that is a two way street when you are not happy with something. We cannot fix a problem we do not know exists. Not to say that itÂ’s going to be 100% perfect, it IS a kit, and any kit requires skills to finish, otherwise let me recommend a build up.
5. Let me say it again for clarity: The wing stars are a BITCH to cast, and have their own issues and compromises, and far too many of each. I will be doing only one more set, for myself, and thatÂ’s all I am ever going to pour of those bastards again. Can you tell I hate them? Steve may do more, he may not, that is wholly up to him. But I'm done with them.
On this somewhat related subject, let me say that Steve is not joking about closing shop, it has taken some persuasion to keep things afloat. It does not help with people getting kits, then say "I never got it", and we reship a kit for "free" plus shipping again, and then find out that person now has 2 kits, or worse yet, waits until the kit is in their hands and then reverses their paypal. Thanks, USPS, great job with tracking and confirmation . . . 'bout as worthless as . . .
Or, better yet, you do a product based on the demand, hard demand of an interest list, front all the costs so you are away from the bad practice of pre selling, and then only 1/4 of the people you were counting on to just break even and then get some money in for funding other projects are the only ones to buy . . . leaving you in the hole. NICE.
Yeah, I know, things you learn the hard way . . .
ANYONE who thinks this is a side business where you make a lot of money . . .
I have a bridge to sell you . . . CHEAP.
Ryan
Sorry if you feel you were not given "value" for your kit. I still think "flaws" and all, that it was a smoking deal and one hell of a starting off point, but thatÂ’s my opinion, and you have yours, and we'll just have to leave it at that. I do want to keep this civil, but it is hard. I've put way too much time in this, and I think that its all together possible that you may have one of the last HERO ties, as I know I'm pouring one more for myself and thatÂ’s that, I will not pour another. Steve can pour all he wants, but I'm done with these for sure.
All I'm gonna say is this . . . DO NOT Read between the lines and assume malice is there, its not, just pointing out some facts . . .
1. I never wanted to have the HERO as a kit, it was intended as an in house build-up for sale only. Yes, Steve sold a few. Yes, as the resin monkey, I was NEVER very happy with that decision, based on how much work I knew was going to have to go into getting a set of wing stars. Yes, I've pulled a lot of stars, and yes, out that "lot", I had only enough good ones for a *few* kits. Big waste of time, rubber (three different sets of molds, and still issues), and too much bad will because of delays.
2. The ILM wing stars AFAIR were naked, ie no greeblies. That was looked at as an option, but again, then we get into even more rubber, more pours, more time . . . So it was dismissed. I may be wrong on this, but thatÂ’s what I remember. So, with the level of detail, we were stuck in a compromise, either we could jacket the heck out of it and have 100% straight casting, but tons of air-bubbles as it will not fit in the pot for pressure as its poured flat and the pot is vertical, or a bubble free crisp detail with some possible deflection of the parts that should be able to be fixed by a builder. I guess we chose the wrong compromise for what you were looking for. Again, since this was intended originally for in house build ups only, that did not seem to be an issue.
3. No studio original, or for that matter, kit has ever been made that was 100% symmetrical. Yes, the ball may be off, and some other details accordingly. ThatÂ’s just the way they are. There are 2 schools of though on this, and I used to subscribe to the second, but now I go with the first, as its truer to the "studio scale" replica philosophy. To each his own, but I suspect you believe in #2 mostly, with some leanings toward #1 in you choice of pilot etc.
"The two school of though on Studio Scale Models.
School One: The original model was thrown together by a guy on a budget who had worked 80 hours that week trying to make deadlines, go home and get some sleep and a beer, and is a far from perfect model that will be hard pressed to stand up to any kind of scrutiny, but will look just fine on a camera pass. A "Studio Scale" replica of that includes ALL the flaws, the so called "Warts and all" belief.
School Two: This is a MODEL of an PHYSICAL SUBJECT, and a if full size, "real" item would not have these flaws, then they should not be on my studio scale model. This is not a replica anymore, but an "Idealized" model that happens to be in studio scale.
Semantics, I know, (hey I'm always up for some antics, oh wait . . .) but it DOES matter, as this was intended to be a Studio Scale Replica, not a in Studio Scale Model of a 100% perfect subject.
4. I know that any issue you may have had with the kit, and this applies to anyone, if we have been able to address it and help out, we would. If you were that unhappy with the wingstars, how come we find out now? Everybody loves to bash Steve for his communication skills, but that is a two way street when you are not happy with something. We cannot fix a problem we do not know exists. Not to say that itÂ’s going to be 100% perfect, it IS a kit, and any kit requires skills to finish, otherwise let me recommend a build up.
5. Let me say it again for clarity: The wing stars are a BITCH to cast, and have their own issues and compromises, and far too many of each. I will be doing only one more set, for myself, and thatÂ’s all I am ever going to pour of those bastards again. Can you tell I hate them? Steve may do more, he may not, that is wholly up to him. But I'm done with them.
On this somewhat related subject, let me say that Steve is not joking about closing shop, it has taken some persuasion to keep things afloat. It does not help with people getting kits, then say "I never got it", and we reship a kit for "free" plus shipping again, and then find out that person now has 2 kits, or worse yet, waits until the kit is in their hands and then reverses their paypal. Thanks, USPS, great job with tracking and confirmation . . . 'bout as worthless as . . .
Or, better yet, you do a product based on the demand, hard demand of an interest list, front all the costs so you are away from the bad practice of pre selling, and then only 1/4 of the people you were counting on to just break even and then get some money in for funding other projects are the only ones to buy . . . leaving you in the hole. NICE.
Yeah, I know, things you learn the hard way . . .
ANYONE who thinks this is a side business where you make a lot of money . . .
I have a bridge to sell you . . . CHEAP.
Ryan
Lynn TXP 0369
Sr Member
<div class='quotetop'>(imaginager @ Nov 8 2006, 03:58 PM) [snapback]1353523[/snapback]</div>
Your f$*%* Kidding right???? :confused :unsure :rolleyes :confused :eek
Being a little harsh don'tcha think?????
I built mine box stock and it is one of the best DAMN kits I own.........
You need to move on and build one of your own kits if you think it needs to be better.
I got your back Steve, your kit is GREAT in my book.
Lynn
<div class='quotetop'>(REL @ Nov 8 2006, 04:13 PM) [snapback]1353535[/snapback]</div>
Don't let this guy fool you or get you down...
This kits builds into one FINE NICE kit when done BOX STOCK...
I don't give a rats arse what his "opinions" are on it.
If he thinks he needs it to be changed he can go ahead and do one himself.
Lynn
Your f$*%* Kidding right???? :confused :unsure :rolleyes :confused :eek
Being a little harsh don'tcha think?????
I built mine box stock and it is one of the best DAMN kits I own.........
You need to move on and build one of your own kits if you think it needs to be better.
I got your back Steve, your kit is GREAT in my book.
Lynn
<div class='quotetop'>(REL @ Nov 8 2006, 04:13 PM) [snapback]1353535[/snapback]</div>
Don't let this guy fool you or get you down...
This kits builds into one FINE NICE kit when done BOX STOCK...
I don't give a rats arse what his "opinions" are on it.
If he thinks he needs it to be changed he can go ahead and do one himself.
Lynn
belleauwood
Well-Known Member
<div class='quotetop'>(REL @ Nov 8 2006, 09:13 PM) [snapback]1353535[/snapback]</div>
REL,
IIRC, Kurt bought only Standard TIES, these have the cast wings. They are a much easier build, wings mainly need just some small cleanup and paint, and you're good to go. No cutting coolshade, no wing stars (they're molded in to the coolshade, like I said, all one piece), so they go fast except for the masking.
I'm assuming ESB and ANH right? ANH colors are on the instruction .PPT, and the color Alan used here is my Favorite "American Accents by Rustoleum" Slate Blue. Its a damn good ESB/ROTJ TIE blue.
LMK if you need the colors, and the instructions, if they aren't up anymore through Steve we can email them to you.
Ryan
REL,
IIRC, Kurt bought only Standard TIES, these have the cast wings. They are a much easier build, wings mainly need just some small cleanup and paint, and you're good to go. No cutting coolshade, no wing stars (they're molded in to the coolshade, like I said, all one piece), so they go fast except for the masking.
I'm assuming ESB and ANH right? ANH colors are on the instruction .PPT, and the color Alan used here is my Favorite "American Accents by Rustoleum" Slate Blue. Its a damn good ESB/ROTJ TIE blue.
LMK if you need the colors, and the instructions, if they aren't up anymore through Steve we can email them to you.
Ryan
DARKSIDE72
Sr Member
Steve, Ryan,
You guys still sending my kit?
Jamie
You guys still sending my kit?
Jamie
Why is that when someone posts an opinion (and lets look at this folks....it is an opinion) that goes against popular thought or someone who is popular on this board....the wagons get thrown into a circle and we get offended, insulted, retreat to the mountains or toss those opinions out as fast as we can?
No reason to stop producing the kit. We know that a resin garage kit is going to need some work. No one is expecting a perfect kit that slaps together.
I think its good to hear others opinions. No need to get anyone's back here. Its not about that. We don't need to put of defensive structures and attack those opinions that we don't like.
Simply offer your own. Tell us about your building experience. Ya know something crazy might happen.
We might actually get some tips and ideas about how to solve some of the problems we may be having with similar kits. We may have a constructive discussion.
Nothing you work on looks nice unless you put the work and effort needed so it reaches your quality expectations.
No reason to stop producing the kit. We know that a resin garage kit is going to need some work. No one is expecting a perfect kit that slaps together.
I think its good to hear others opinions. No need to get anyone's back here. Its not about that. We don't need to put of defensive structures and attack those opinions that we don't like.
Simply offer your own. Tell us about your building experience. Ya know something crazy might happen.
We might actually get some tips and ideas about how to solve some of the problems we may be having with similar kits. We may have a constructive discussion.
Nothing you work on looks nice unless you put the work and effort needed so it reaches your quality expectations.
Jamie,
Call me or I'll call you.
JP05 I have no problem with the critique of the kit. Every one has there own level of quality I can appreciate that.
Jamie you and Jason will have the opportunity to show off the Hero TIE as well. I hope I can fix some of the problems Allan pointed out.
Steve
Call me or I'll call you.
JP05 I have no problem with the critique of the kit. Every one has there own level of quality I can appreciate that.
Jamie you and Jason will have the opportunity to show off the Hero TIE as well. I hope I can fix some of the problems Allan pointed out.
Steve
imaginager
Sr Member
Jesse knows best. :angel
There was some venom on my part that certainly wasn't productive.
------
Jamie and Jason,
I would enjoy seeing progress of your builds when you get to them. There is plenty I can learn, and you are two of the best builders. I will have mine done before the holiday. However, since I caused a big ol' dump in my own thread, I doubt it will be a welcome unveiling. So, please do post pics of yours.
Allan
There was some venom on my part that certainly wasn't productive.
------
Jamie and Jason,
I would enjoy seeing progress of your builds when you get to them. There is plenty I can learn, and you are two of the best builders. I will have mine done before the holiday. However, since I caused a big ol' dump in my own thread, I doubt it will be a welcome unveiling. So, please do post pics of yours.
Allan
No hard feelings here. Good luck on the rest of your awsome achievement.
Steve
Steve
Jestefarean
Sr Member
Good build up...good kit. I think I can comfortably say those statements in the same thread.
I love my Ties. I have a Gen 1, and a Gen 2. I plan on building them both..the Gen 1 with Koolshade. It will be a complete beotch to complete as my gen 1 stars are in rough shape...but I knew that when I bought them...and I enjoy the challange. I build garage kits because I like a challange, and I like knowing the results will be unique. When people ask me if they can work in resin I always say you have to be willing to work harder. If you want a perfect fit you need to by the Fine Molds stuff. If you want a kit that is "large and in charge" buy Steve's Tie. Built, it looks fantastic to 99% of the people who see it.
I've always felt I am blessed with a childs eyes. I don't look at a Tie or any other ship and see minute size errors, or parts being a hair off...I see a Tie fighter. A ship I grew up with...a ship that makes me smile every time I see it. I build these kits because it helps me relive my youth, and gives me something to share with my son and daughter. Stare long enough at anything and you will see flaws.
imaginager, I love your buildup and look forward to more tips (which I plan on using on my Ties) I think your criticism of the kit is fair, though perhaps over the top and backed by a little to much venom.
swpropmaker and belleauwood, love the kits and looking forward to more.
Cum-by-ya
I love my Ties. I have a Gen 1, and a Gen 2. I plan on building them both..the Gen 1 with Koolshade. It will be a complete beotch to complete as my gen 1 stars are in rough shape...but I knew that when I bought them...and I enjoy the challange. I build garage kits because I like a challange, and I like knowing the results will be unique. When people ask me if they can work in resin I always say you have to be willing to work harder. If you want a perfect fit you need to by the Fine Molds stuff. If you want a kit that is "large and in charge" buy Steve's Tie. Built, it looks fantastic to 99% of the people who see it.
I've always felt I am blessed with a childs eyes. I don't look at a Tie or any other ship and see minute size errors, or parts being a hair off...I see a Tie fighter. A ship I grew up with...a ship that makes me smile every time I see it. I build these kits because it helps me relive my youth, and gives me something to share with my son and daughter. Stare long enough at anything and you will see flaws.
imaginager, I love your buildup and look forward to more tips (which I plan on using on my Ties) I think your criticism of the kit is fair, though perhaps over the top and backed by a little to much venom.
swpropmaker and belleauwood, love the kits and looking forward to more.
Cum-by-ya
DARKSIDE72
Sr Member
Thanks Steve, I will call you ASAP, just been really busy. :confused
Allan, love your build-up and appreciate the pictures and information. Steve's Tie is something I look forward to building and showing off. I expect a few "issues" with the build but I don't expect any SS model to be easy to build. They're a rare breed of modeling and tweeking is normal.
Allan, love your build-up and appreciate the pictures and information. Steve's Tie is something I look forward to building and showing off. I expect a few "issues" with the build but I don't expect any SS model to be easy to build. They're a rare breed of modeling and tweeking is normal.
imaginager
Sr Member
Thanks for the kind words Steve.
Thanks, Jesse. Looking forward to seeing some builds by the pros.
Jamie, you'll knock it WAY out of the park...
I'm just a pinch hitter, the opening act, an hors d'oeuvre.
Thanks, Jesse. Looking forward to seeing some builds by the pros.
Jamie, you'll knock it WAY out of the park...
I'm just a pinch hitter, the opening act, an hors d'oeuvre.
imaginager
Sr Member
More progress today. I decided to make the wings removeable, so I pulled out some 1/16" brass rod and installed 2 per pylon as guides for the wings. The wings will be held in place with 8.5 lb. pull rare earth magnets. Some day I hope to make an asteroid damaged wing.
Initially, I planned to make a simple, flat roof over the cockpit so you couldn't see inside though the top hatch - since you can't on the studio models. I didn't want to go to the trouble of making something that actually looked like what I had photographed at the OMSI exhibit; too many odd radii and strange angles. Then, I got a little wild. Started out just killing time because I was waiting for FedEx to show up with the magnets for the wings. In the end, I decided to go ahead and use it. Also, I didn't want to seal up either of the accesses Steve designed into the model. So, I also finished the top hatch with a magnetic closure, like the aft engine cone.
Last, I re-masked each wing to finish painting out the H-beam frame trim.
Initially, I planned to make a simple, flat roof over the cockpit so you couldn't see inside though the top hatch - since you can't on the studio models. I didn't want to go to the trouble of making something that actually looked like what I had photographed at the OMSI exhibit; too many odd radii and strange angles. Then, I got a little wild. Started out just killing time because I was waiting for FedEx to show up with the magnets for the wings. In the end, I decided to go ahead and use it. Also, I didn't want to seal up either of the accesses Steve designed into the model. So, I also finished the top hatch with a magnetic closure, like the aft engine cone.
Last, I re-masked each wing to finish painting out the H-beam frame trim.
Last edited:
imaginager
Sr Member
Very similar to REL. Mine's a 5/8" steel sleeve over the coupler...also used 1/4" threaded rod. There's a 3/4" flat washer between the top of the sleeve and the bottom of the TIE, as well as on the inside bottom of the TIE hull. Without it, the sleeve wants to wander up inside the mounting hole on the TIE. I can't say enough good things about these mounts.
Allan
Allan
