Prometheus (Post-release)

It's interesting how people have this idea about how "professional scientists" are "supposed" to behave.

I can support this. Academics can be staggeringly narrowly focused and impractical. I mean, they can lack pieces of general knowledge and life skills that would be just basic to your average troglodyte. :lol

The rolling Juggernaut cricicism is a weird one. The scene as shot shows two women running for their lives with barely time for a glance behind them. Huge pieces of burning debris are falling on all sides and no one direction looks much safer than another from the *audience's* POV, let alone that of the characters. We do get one or two overhead shots which they don't. But we get a lot of shakycam running and screaming and falling stuff and a rolling wreck and etcetera. Anyone remember the huge debates over the cave troll fight scene in Fellowship of the Ring? It's like round two of that argument.

Your points about panic responses are dead on the money, but won't be heard. This aspect of the debate also reminds me of the tasers/no tasers debate we had here a while ago. On that occasion it seemed that it was impossible to explain the realities of the situations for which tasers are intended to folk who haven't witnessed or participated in a takedown of an "agitated" person.

Don't make excuses for the movie. We already know for a fact the movie itself is a hackjob of several scripts and scenes filmed.

How is that a strike against it? The same is true of Star Wars, Blade Runner, Alien and many other films we all love. We all make excuses for the dumb parts of our favourite films. The Falcon's hyperdrive thing in ESB? The stupid space worm? Completely forgiven, some people even think it's a better film than Star Wars.

You're trying to convince us that the movie is bad, and we're trying to convince you that it's not.

Well, I'm not. I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything, and I think it's a good movie trapped in the body of a bad one. :lol

Practically every other film in existence has these same flaws, and yet they're blissfully overlooked (just as we're doing, those of us that actually like Prometheus).

Again, not in my case. I really like it but I lament the many and major flaws.

And if you have EVER watched a sciance documentary on PBS or the like, you have see how "professional scientists" act.

Yeah, while there's a camera on them and they are trying to look good. :)
 
Actually, I just thought of something...

How many of you haters are going to buy the Blu-ray just so you can spend more time researching how horrible the film is?

At that point, opinion no longer matters, I think. Mission accomplished, say the film's producers.



Jedi - you can't shut down discussion of Prometheus just because you feel there are no problems worth mentioning. People have paid good money to watch a movie that's been very highly anticipated and have a right to fair comment - heck, it's only been a few weeks since release, it's hardly flogging a dead horse like the prequel debates.

I'm sure also there are people who enjoyed watching it, maybe even multiple times, and even plan on buying the DVD - I know I will - yet they also view it as significantly problematic in execution if not substance even outside of it's Alien connection - actually, even outside of it's Ridley Scott connection.

The fundamental flaw with Prometheus is it wants to be a movie of depth and intelligence - but for many, when we meet it on those terms, it doesn't pass muster.
 
I can see where jedi is coming from on this. Ive yet to see a recent film getting nitpicked by people like this one. And since it is not much point in argumenting about if its logical when its obviously symbolic, then surely there must be some pleasure in hating it. :)
 
Jedi - you can't shut down discussion of Prometheus just because you feel there are no problems worth mentioning.
As I pointed out earlier, I'm not saying the film doesn't have flaws. I'm just saying they don't matter nearly as much to me as they do to some other people. I acknowledge their existence, I just don't care. They don't get in the way of my enjoyment of the film, just as they don't get in the way of my enjoying plenty of other films. We watched Cowboys & Aliens last night, and we all loved it, and yet I know the general consensus of that one is that it was one of the worst pieces of drivel to ever hit celluloid. I also have all three of the Transformers movies on the shelf downstairs. I seem to have the unusual ability to enjoy films for what they are, as opposed to what I think they should be.

Some people are obviously very bothered by the flaws in Prometheus, I just think they're going a bit overboard in discussing them. They're repeating the same things over and over again, as if we didn't read it properly the first time.

Now, back to "making excuses": Regarding Holloway. The audience got a hell of a lot better view of that thing in his eye than he did, what with it being on the big screen, and in 3D, no less. His first reaction was to blink and look for it again.. he wasn't even convinced he'd seen what he thought he saw, and when he looked again, it wasn't there.. Then he got called away to go back into the pyramid. He had no reason to believe that he'd been "infected" by anything at all. He's an archaeologist, not an astronaut.

What exactly was he supposed to tell them? My eyes are red and I think I saw something moving in my eyeball after getting totally trashed the night before? I see entire rooms move when I get drunk, it doesn't mean I should worry about the building falling down.

Would it have made everyone feel better if there had been a brief scene of the doctor looking in his eye and saying "I don't see anything.. you're probably just hung over, here's an aspirin"? Movies that cover every little detail like that tend to be about four hours long. Kurosawa can do that. Scott can't.

People are putting forth their own knowledge of what was happening in the film, and assuming that the characters should know all this as well. At that point in the film, we knew that Holloway was infected, and we already knew that the black goo could affect and alter DNA and the physical makeup of a lifeform. None of the characters knew this at that point in the film.
 
There seems to be a lot of banter back and forth about the pro and cons of the quality, continuity, logic, details, progression, characters, motivations, sensibility, facts, knowns and unknowns:

The fact is that the film was extraordinary enough to spark debate to such a degree in the first place makes it a hit or homerun. The film seems successful in that respect. It is interesting to read the critiques and still find I am most satisfied with the film. If a team of writers and directors can create a body of work that fosters debate – good and bad – defenders and critics - they are a success.

Ridley Scott – SCORES !! :cool

Even haters have to admit that. :cry
 
Ridley Scott – SCORES !! :cool

Even haters have to admit that. :cry

Overall I liked the film- I'm glad I saw it in 3D on opening night.

However, for such an expensive film made by such well known people with so famous of a brand (7th film of the franchise) -I think it would be harder to make a movie we didn't obsess about and debate. That may be a valid metric for commercial success, but no more.

(No matter how much time we spend arguing over the qualities of the Star Wars Prequels or JJ Trek, it doesn't actually make them better or worse movies.)
 
It's fine to not like the movie. Not everyone likes the same things.

But what I don't like is when people accuse the filmmakers of not knowing what they are doing, just because they didn't like the movie.

Just because the movie isn't for you, doesn't mean they didn't accomplish exactly what they intended.

I think Ridley has established that he knows what he is doing, and makes what he wants to make. He isn't trying to make something for everyone.
 
I just saw the film and i found it enjoyable. the surgery scene was awesome, i was pretty happy with how tense it was. but as the movie ended i heard this and idk why but just made me laugh so hard.

SPOILERS*

"wtf so 7ft giant muscular white dudes created us??..was this movie written and directed by hitler>????"

man hahaha some people are just nuts lol
 
Just because the movie isn't for you, doesn't mean they didn't accomplish exactly what they intended.

I think Ridley has established that he knows what he is doing, and makes what he wants to make. He isn't trying to make something for everyone.

I agree with you, Rodney.

Where I find fault with this film, though, is where they seem to have been either trying to do one thing, and failed, or were claiming to do one thing, while actually doing the opposite.

Four of the film's characters were explicitly identified as scientists. Shaw is the only one who comes anywhere near pulling it off. The other three could have been replaced with any random junior high students and had no change in the movie.

This makes me think that either the writers really, honestly have no idea whatsoever of what a scientist is, or they simply have tremendous disdain for them.

If we believe that part of the point of the film was to state that scientists are no better educated or thoughtful than the average teenager, then we could say they succeeded, and that aspect of the movie simply wasn't intended to please audience members like me.

The fan film "L5" I just watched is a much better example of a film maker actually trying to portray scientists on a space mission believably. (At least so far.)
 
It's fine to not like the movie. Not everyone likes the same things.

But what I don't like is when people accuse the filmmakers of not knowing what they are doing, just because they didn't like the movie.

Just because the movie isn't for you, doesn't mean they didn't accomplish exactly what they intended.

I think Ridley has established that he knows what he is doing, and makes what he wants to make. He isn't trying to make something for everyone.

You're missing a big point. There are people who find the movie entertaining enough yet are still able to present reasonable arguments for it being notably poor in areas. It's like those who adore Prometheus are circling the wagons against any criticism and any critics are 'haters'. That does start to smack of mindless fanaticism after a while.

I think to some degree you're right in that Scott made the movie he intended - to me it seems like Prometheus is an intelligent movie for the masses and thus quite a dumbed down one compared to his previous sci-fi entries if it's to appeal to a wider audience - which he was shooting for.
Let's face it, Alien and Blade Runner as they stand just wouldn't be made in mainstream Hollywood these days, audiences would find them too cerebral and too slow.

I don't think the written movie (beyond concept) concerns Scott an awful lot - he's a visual film maker and an exceptional one. But perhaps these days his movies rely too heavily on visuals.


I got the impression after watching the film that that line was cobbled together from different bits of the movie for the trailer. The "Do you copy?" shows up in the film when he's talking to Shaw right as the Juggernaut is taking off. The "Kill everything" line doesn't appear at all, but I can't really think of any place in the film where it would show up, so I have no idea where that came from. I'm going to pass that off as a hack job done by whoever put the trailer together rather than as an indication of a cut in the film.

It does sound very odd and like you say, I can't see any place in the movie for it either. We've seen an enormous amount of quality background material recently but you have to wonder if there's some major chunks of crazy stuff out there. And if the line is legit then it sure does evoke something pretty crazy.
 
I agree with you, Rodney.

Four of the film's characters were explicitly identified as scientists. Shaw is the only one who comes anywhere near pulling it off. The other three could have been replaced with any random junior high students and had no change in the movie.

This makes me think that either the writers really, honestly have no idea whatsoever of what a scientist is, or they simply have tremendous disdain for them.

I would believe that there is a deep motivation against "pure science and logic" in this film. The only human with any faith is the one that survives. A bit telling there.

And in regards to the scientists acting like idiots, two points: one, I work in Operations. I have a lot of interface with the Engineering department. You would be amazed at how often I go WTF when Engineering asks us to do something that is completely off the wall. I think to myself, "How can they be this stupid?" Then after talking with I realize that they are in a world of theory, and numbers, and design criteria. They don't ever think of the "real-world" aspect because they never have to deal with it. Note Shaw's response to the flamethrowers: "Oh we are a science expedition. We don't need weapons." Never mind the fact that there is likely lots of things on the planet that won't care YOU are a scientist and will try to kill you. It's like going into a warzone thinking you won't get shot cause you are a member of the press. Yeah, a seasoned veteran might not have that attitude but most of the people on Prometheus never struck me as experienced.

Second point: sometimes people just do stupid things that they SHOULD know better. Taking off the helmets is a great example; Holloway wants to meet his creators. He WANTS them to be like him. He WANTS the Engineers to be the greatest thing ever. So he takes his helmet off because he refuses to see anything outside his narrow point of view.

Charlie
 
Rather then discussing our resumes, how about the groups thoughts on a question I posed a page ago but lost in the noise of who knows biology better. Do we think that this was a first contact situation? How does it effect the actions of the characters? Or does it even matter?
 
You're missing a big point. There are people who find the movie entertaining enough yet are still able to present reasonable arguments for it being notably poor in areas. It's like those who adore Prometheus are circling the wagons against any criticism and any critics are 'haters'. That does start to smack of mindless fanaticism after a while.

What one person may consider a "flaw" may be something another person really enjoys. That is not mindless fanaticism or hate, its just a difference or taste. Doesn't make anyone stupid for liking or not liking, and it doesn't mean Ridley was negligent or incapable.
 
Rather then discussing our resumes, how about the groups thoughts on a question I posed a page ago but lost in the noise of who knows biology better. Do we think that this was a first contact situation? How does it effect the actions of the characters? Or does it even matter?

Well, in Alien Ash says something like, 'It's the first time we've encountered a species like this' when they are arguing about taking the facehugger back. Not 'This is proof of the existence of extraterrestrial life. We're all gonna be rich!'

In the Director's Cut when they listen to the alien transmission, it is clear that it isn't human. They are freaked out by it, but no exclaimations of 'OMG, this could be proof of other intelligent life in the galaxy!'

In Aliens, Hudson mentions, 'Another bug hunt'.

So I think we can assume that, at that point, first contact had definitely been made.

I'm inclined to think the same of Prometheus. The mission is to establish whether there is a connection between Earth and LV-233 and the Engineers. No mention is made of first contact, one of the most important events that could happpen in Earth's history.

Now, I'm sure our more cynical contributors will once more put this down to bad writing. I'm not so sure. The suit in Aliens mentions 'over 300 surveyed worlds'. So they've been around.

Maybe alien lifeforms are relativeley commonplace, and largely unthreatening. That would certainly go some way to explain Fifield and Milburn's glib attitudes....until they encounter something very large and clearly intelligent...different ballgame.

If Millburn is crapping himself about meeting a live engineer, the alien bug may have seemed something of a relief, something he could relate to, previous alien critters having been benign. Dumb, but look at Steve Irwin...

Total conjecture, of course, but all the movies hint that the Alien universe seems a pretty prosaic 'how can we make a buck' place. No interest in space exploration beyond exploitation is even hinted at, and any sort of alien life appears to fit into this philosopy. 'Can we use it, or do we hunt it down so it doesn't bug our colonists?'
 
Rather then discussing our resumes, how about the groups thoughts on a question I posed a page ago but lost in the noise of who knows biology better. Do we think that this was a first contact situation? How does it effect the actions of the characters? Or does it even matter?

I don't think there is any evidence of contact to intelligent life prior to the Prometheus landing. If there were, I would think that there would some kind of protocol for it; a linguisitics specialist or diplomat or something. However, I would say there is no direct reference either for or against. Ash's comment in ALIEN (see my sig) imply that there is at least a company policy to investigate "intelligent" signals. That could be because they know other life is out there, or it could be just a standard clause that no expects to ever use. In Aliens, Frost and company make comments about Arcturian things (Hudsons says "yeah Frost, but the one you had was a male" and Frost replies "It don't matter when it's Arcturian, baby!"). That may or may not be a reference to something native to Arcturian, or just a colloquial reference to some form of prostitute. it also doesn't implicate intelligent one way or the other (maybe it's an Arcturian robot?).

Should that have an effect on the crew's response? Probably, but the only people who really believe it are Weyland, Shaw, and Holloway. Once they are there, every intelligent lifeform is already dead, so that could reasonably change reaction. By the time the live Engineer is found, everything has gone so loopy that no one is responding normally.

Charlie
 
Well, in Alien Ash says something like, 'It's the first time we've encountered a species like this' when they are arguing about taking the facehugger back. Not 'This is proof of the existence of extraterrestrial life. We're all gonna be rich!'

In the Director's Cut when they listen to the alien transmission, it is clear that it isn't human. They are freaked out by it, but no exclaimations of 'OMG, this could be proof of other intelligent life in the galaxy!'

In Aliens, Hudson mentions, 'Another bug hunt'.

So I think we can assume that, at that point, first contact had definitely been made.

I wouldn't necessarily assume that first contact had been made. With both of those instances, I always had the impression that extraterrestial life had been found on other planets; Ash's comment was more of the "hmm, this is different from the other things we found" style and Hudson could have been talking about how they had to fight off giant termites for all we know. :) Intelligent life though....I am not so sure. However, one thing that does stand out: Dallas, Lambert, and Caine in the ship. When they find the remains of the original Engineer, there is no remark of "whoa, intelligent aliens!" or "we're not alone, really not alone" or anything like that. Caine being the inquistive ******* he is would have remarked about that I'm sure, and Parker and Brett would have been counting the discovery money as soon as they heard about it.

Charlie
 
The person who got me into sci fi all those years ago, my older brother, finally saw it, the first thing i asked him was what he thought of the crew,"The Nostromo crew were pretty much a bunch of contemporary late 70`s arseholes, Prometheus crew? pretty much a bunch of contemporary early 2000`s arseholes". My Guru.
 
This thread is more than 10 years old.

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

  1. This thread hasn't been active in some time. A new post in this thread might not contribute constructively to this discussion after so long.
If you wish to reply despite these issues, check the box below before replying.
Be aware that malicious compliance may result in more severe penalties.
Back
Top