Wait, Inara was dying???

Nah, Whedon's just gonna have an aneurism during filming because he can't kill off any of the main characters.

Chris
 
EVERY couple gets broken up. Either by someone's death or by the relationship going sour or something.

Which is a lot like life. I've always thought Whedon's intent for characters was interesting. It rarely effects how I feel about a story overall, but this time it has, to learn she was sick.

I disagree that killing off characters is so late 90's. Like any kind of narrative story telling device it just has to be done in a manner that works for the story overall, and has impact, and forwards the story.

In this case, Inara, I think this part of her character lends itself to a subtle intent that Whedon built into this show. I love that Firefly still has stories to tell us, and stories that it will never tell. I don't think he did it with later shows.
 
Which is a lot like life. I've always thought Whedon's intent for characters was interesting. It rarely effects how I feel about a story overall, but this time it has, to learn she was sick.

Well, technically every couple -- even the couple that's been married for 60 years -- will be broken up by the death of one of them.

But Whedon literally breaks up every couple. There's never an exploration of the drama that's involved in maintaining a long-term relationship. You see a couple in love or even "deep like" in a Whedon project, and you'd better watch out for stray bits of lumber, vengeful demons, or incurable diseases. It's basically guaranteed that the relationship will end and end badly. If not by death, then by the incompatibility of the couple that inevitably rears its ugly head.

I disagree that killing off characters is so late 90's. Like any kind of narrative story telling device it just has to be done in a manner that works for the story overall, and has impact, and forwards the story.

Whedon usually pays off his deaths well. He uses them at once for the "shock value" and for the long-term implications (when he has time to explore those). But that said, I think that, while you need the odd death here or there to up the ante, the problem is that it's no longer shocking. You know it's gonna happen. Maybe not to whom or when, but you KNOW he's gonna get lethal with some characters.

This was revolutionary in the 90s when, most of the time, a character death was a VERY rare thing on even long-running sci-fi shows, and usually was down to something like failed contract negotiations. Even then, it was more likely to be a "departure" that left an opening for the character's return for a guest spot down the road.

Whedon was a trailblazer in this respect. In fact, I'd say it's more "so 90s" to have a show where your main characters face death regularly and all come through unscathed. This is why, even though it ran well into the 2000s, I tend to view a show like Stargate SG-1 as a "90s" style scifi show.

My point is more that the shock value is gone from this particular tactic, and it's now old hat. I'd be more shocked by everyone making it through multiple Whedon seasons alive than I would be by him killing people (especially when they're in couples).

In this case, Inara, I think this part of her character lends itself to a subtle intent that Whedon built into this show. I love that Firefly still has stories to tell us, and stories that it will never tell. I don't think he did it with later shows.

Well, generally, that's because I think he usually knew the show was gonna end, so he wrapped things up nicely. Angel is the exception to this, but even that was wrapped up in comics, as I understand it (I haven't read 'em though). I enjoy Firefly but I think a lot of what folks loved about it, the comfortable, homey feeling of the show, would've been totally shattered in subsequent seasons. Certainly Serenity suggests that in classic flying-timber fashion.
 
The two to three things that people refer to being meant as hints to her illness... well sure... it could be... I just doesn't buy it.

The syringe - how is that related to her illness and how would it help her, when it is explicitly explained that it isn't a suicide kit? It works best as a suicide kit or some sort of super weapon booster in time of need - not hinting at some sort of obscure illness in the face of direct danger and the possibility of a reaver attack.

The Ariel episode... well... why would she get treated for the illness and not tell the crew? Doesn't make sense. Sounds more likely that it is exactly what she explains to the crew - just routine Companion tests.

The dialogue in Out of Gas hints strongly to her character trait of being a winner and in control and wanting to control everything around her. It is a very common thing for a character like that to say, as death is really not something they can really control, so it scares them.

Not ONCE in the series did she play the character like one with having a terminal illness. The character has secrets, sure... but that just wasn't in how the character was played.
 
...not hinting at some sort of obscure illness in the face of direct danger and the possibility of a reaver attack.
I always looked at that scene as Inara contemplating the irony of it all; thinking to herself something like: "I've taken medicine for so long, in an attempt to stave off the effects of my illness & extend my life, only to meet my end like this..."

*shrugs*
 
Meh. Whedon saying a comic is 'canon' is just a way to get people to buy it. If wasn't in the show or movie, I don't care.
 
People love Firefly because the first season is very happy-go-lucky. There are some touch-and-go moments, but on the whole, the heroes manage to survive and win and beat the odds repeatedly.

People also frequently forget that Joss has a tendency to build you a happy, warm, sepia-toned home.....and then burn it to the ****ing ground with everyone inside. Thus, it would not surprise me IN THE LEAST if Inara and Mal had some doomed romance. Likewise, I firmly expect that Kaylee and Simon would've ended....badly. Probably with Kaylee dying or turning out to be an Alliance spy or somesuch. Oh, and Jayne? He'd end up becoming one of the most loyal people on the crew, then sacrifice himself to save everyone in a moving goodbye. New characters would be introduced, but at the end, MAYBE only Mal would survive.


It's actually become one of the things I find most irritating about Whedon's style in that he has become predictable as "Oh, that guy who has the snappy dialogue and kills everyone." Also, if you EVER see ANYONE in love in a Joss Whedon production, expect death or painful breakup. Possibly both. The man REFUSES to give couples a happy ending.


WOW! This point has never been made better.

I do love this about Joss though.

I have watched every episode, of Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Dollhouse, etc. more times then I would like to admit. And wall I loved the fact that he would build you up, just to rip it out from under you, I never really thought about it in relation to Firefly, since it didn't go that long. And I never thought about Wash's Death as being just typical Joss, but now I do.

I know this style, my have been predictable for most, and a lot of folks don't like it. I love something that makes me feel something, and most stuff now adays makes me feel noting at all, but that is just not the case with Joss's stuff, even when I see it coming it always gets me.

I didn't even like Buffy's Mom all that much, but I still cry like a girl every time I watch "The body" (the episode where she dies)

I Really didn't like Jenny Calendar, but I love Giles, and was so very happy for him, that things were patched up with her, and then she died, and I cried like a baby.


I LOVED Fred, and I wanted her and Wes to get together so badly. (to be honest there times, that my hope for them getting together was the only reason I watched the show) And ever single time I watch the episode were she dies, I cry like a "hungry angry baby."

I don't know, I guess my real life has been a lot like a Joss show/Movie, so maybe I can relate to these moments more then some. However, as much as I truly loved the crew of serenity I would have loved to see the further advintures of serenity go the way Solo4114 posited in the attached post. I could see Jayne going that way, I could see Kaylee as a spy. I could see inara dieing. (I never really liked inarra, but I but Mal loves here, and I love Mal, so I would probably cry for his sake if she died. even though I did not really care all that much when book died, and when Wash died as much as it felt like a bunch in the gut, I didn't cry then either. )

Man, I wish there were more episodes of Firefly.
 
I didn't even like Buffy's Mom all that much, but I still cry like a girl every time I watch "The body" (the episode where she dies)

The Body is without doubt the most emotionally genuine episode of Buffy. I lost my mother in 2001 and let me tell you, watching that episode was VERY true to what my family and I went through losing her. It was extremely painful to watch, but it was also very cathartic. I thought it showed a level of maturity that I'd hoped would continue to pop up, but, unfortunately, didn't seem to.
 
The Body is without doubt the most emotionally genuine episode of Buffy. I lost my mother in 2001 and let me tell you, watching that episode was VERY true to what my family and I went through losing her. It was extremely painful to watch, but it was also very cathartic. I thought it showed a level of maturity that I'd hoped would continue to pop up, but, unfortunately, didn't seem to.

Wasn't that essentially the only non violent, totally normal death in the series? That's what I think is the hardest thing about the episode, it's a brutal slap that even with all the magical resurrections in the show, that when it's someone's time there's nothing that can be done, true to life.
 
Don't get me wrong. I still love his stuff on the whole. I just find that it's become predictable in terms of the emotional beats. He's frequently said that a happily-ever-after relationship is boring, dramatically speaking. And yeah, he's right, but who here knows of any TRULY "happily-ever-after" relationships? I'm not talking the glowing memories we have of Grandma and Grandpa's last 50 years together at the big anniversary party. I'm talking about the day-to-day existence which is made up of some really happy moments, some really bad/painful moments, and lots of in-between stuff. Put simply, all couples have drama to one extent or another.

Good friends of mine -- who I tend to view as, in many ways, a model couple -- had some real drama about having kids. It all worked out and they're very happy on the whole, but (A) they still have their moments of bickering, and (B) the drama that hit them about that was real and major. Whedon doesn't seem interested in exploring that in any extended fashion.

As a good example of what I'm talking about, I'd offer Lily and Marshall on How I Met Your Mother. Here's a couple that has lasted, but has DEFINITELY had its ups and downs at times. And while it's in a sitcom (and thus, many/most of the problems are resolved in 30 minutes or less), it's about as true-to-life a sitcom as I've encountered, and it manages to create solid drama between two people who are very much in love, happily married, and yet STILL have their drama from time to time.

Whedon? He doesn't do that. You see a happy couple, and one of them is gonna end up dead, cheating, brainwashed, turned into a demon, or flying off in a helicopter for covert ops missions.

Now, while much of that is true-to-life for our late teens and early twenties (the period Whedon depicted in Buffy and Angel), what about fantastical environments like Firefly/Serenity? Wash and Zoe were a solid couple that still had the potential for drama. Oh, wait. Can't have that. Throw a pylon through that guy, will ya? How come Alan's script only goes up to page 95 but everyone else's goes to 115?

And again, while he almost always pays off the breakups (however they occur) by using them to propel major, interesting stories...it's just gotten kinda tiresome for me. Predictable, really.

I suppose it's one of the reasons why I find Firefly so enjoyable. There's still a sense of palpable drama, but without killing anyone off. And frankly, there's enough TV out there now that does "real" and "gritty" that I could do without the underlying sense of "I really want to wild-bunch the crew like the end of Blake's 7 or something..."
 
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