Star Trek Into Darkness (Pre-release)

Reading this full quote makes me even MORE depressed! Gawwd, WHY would the franchise ask HIM to make the movies???WTF! He had no prior interest in it and no inate passion for it, but 'did a little research and watched a few episodes'? There are literally THOUSANDS of true fans and movie professionals out there who could have dedicated themselves to reinvigorating Trek, and they pick some hot-shot who barely knows what it's about? It's about 'emotions'???? Geez...WTF isn't?

See, but if you give it to a "true fan," you run the opposite risk. Bryan Singer was a HUGE fan of Donner's Superman, citing it as the movie that influenced his career, and look where that got us.

Also, keep in mind that Nicholas Meyer (Wrath of Khan director and co-writer) had never seen an episode of Trek before being hired. In fact, he once said that his greatest contribution to Star Trek was a healthy disrespect for it.

How many directors tell a fantastic story from a truly original premise -- that is, coming into it without knowing a thing about it? So I don't think that merely being a fan and familiar with Trek, or not, really has any bearing on it. It comes down to how well the story can be told.

Personally, I quite liked the Star Trek reboot. Sure, it has problems, and I think that Abrams definitely does better in other genres (M:I III worked very well), but my problems with it are more nitpicky than anything.
 
Reading this full quote makes me even MORE depressed! Gawwd, WHY would the franchise ask HIM to make the movies???WTF! He had no prior interest in it and no inate passion for it, but 'did a little research and watched a few episodes'? There are literally THOUSANDS of true fans and movie professionals out there who could have dedicated themselves to reinvigorating Trek, and they pick some hot-shot who barely knows what it's about? It's about 'emotions'???? Geez...WTF isn't?

In all fairness, Nicolas Meyer knew about as much about Star Trek when he was asked to take the helm of ST II and did much the same thing and did some research by watching some episodes. This was also back before the days of the internet so he couldn't research anything about Trek online and what a lot of fans felt about Trek and what it was about. I think the difference between Nick Meyers and JJ Abrams is that Meyers got and understood what the essence of Star Trek was and knew how to tell a good story and Abrams, even with the benefit of the internet, didn't and one could argue still doesn't get it and it's questionable that he even really knows how to tell a good story.

I think the problem that JJ Abrams has is that he has way too many things going on at one time and is probably already thinking about his next project/big idea before even one of his existing projects is done with. That's probably why Trek '09 is so flawed as will its sequel, he's too distracted to really focus on writing a good story and understanding the essence of Star Trek.
 
Meyers inspiration to understand Star Trek was Horatio Hornblower.


"Star Trek vaguely reminded me of something, something for which I had great affection. It took me quite a while before I realized what it was. I remember waking with a start one night and saying it aloud:

“Hornblower!”.........

Once I was possessed of this epiphany, a great many things fell readily into place. I suddenly knew what Star Trek wanted to be and how I could relate to it. The look of the film and the natures of the characters—even their language—suddenly became clear. And doable. I would write a Hornblower script, simply relocating in outer space."

-----------------

JJ made no attempt at all to understand a damn thing.
 
I think what most people are failing to grasp is the possibility that they didn't want someone who "got" Trek. I think they wanted someone who could steer it in a different direction, a direction that might actually make them money at the box office.

For all those complaining about them not listening to fans consider this:

Paramount gave the fans a third season of TOS when it was about to get cancelled. There were two seasons of animated Trek. They gave the fans seven seasons of TNG, seven seasons of DS9, seven seasons of Voyager, and five seasons of Enterprise. That’s approximately eight hundred episodes. On top of that they gave the fans six movies with the original cast and four movies with the TNG cast. How the hell have they not been generous to the fans?

There has been merchandise up the wazoo: comic books, novels, episodes on VHS, DVD, remastered HD versions on Blu-ray, conventions and cruises, and just about anything else you can think of.

But now that Paramount would actually like to make a somewhat sizable profit on the franchise it’s “How could they do this to the fans”.

I think the fans should stop asking CBS/Paramount to bend over backwards for them and should instead thank them for all the years of entertainment they have given us.

This is coming from someone who's been a Trek fan almost since birth. Yes I have issues with JJ Trek but I still can enjoy it. It doesn't spoil or erase every thing that came before it.


 
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Meyer did bring some good stuff to Trek, but also he tried to make it more military and modern-day, giving us darker colours on the bridge and uniforms as well as the No Smoking signs and clunky, anachronistic, communicators. Oh, and pockets! Roddenberry had been keen on no pockets or zippers cos to him that was futuristic, Trek II and II gave us field jackets COVERED in pockets. :lol
 
JJ made no attempt at all to understand a damn thing.

Whether you think he failed miserably or not, this is NOT a fair statement.

Abrams: "I was, frankly, never really a fan. I never really got it. I never really cared much about it. Most of my friends who loved it were, without question, smarter than I was. I kept trying..."

"When I said yes, it was because… I’d never thought of it, ever… but what occurred to me as I was being asked was "There’s a version of it that I could see getting interested in."

"Maybe I wasn’t in the right frame of mind as a kid. I don’t know what it was. I have since watched a number of them and actually have actually come to really appreciate the show."

So, it's fine if you think his effort was a steaming pile, but unless you've got some personal access to the man's brain, to claim he made no attempt to get it is ridiculous.
 
Let's also not forget that, depending on what TOS episodes he was subjected to, young boy JJ might have been more than justified.

While some of TOS is the best television ever produced, a large percentage is equally steeped in the other direction. Star Trek is remembered for the best of times, which is remarkable, as it could have easily been obliterated by its worst. It exists in spite of its most offensive entries.

Also, the attitudes in this thread disappoint me.
Might it be time Trek fans practice the optimism, compassion, and thoughtfulness they preach?
 
Whether you think he failed miserably or not, this is NOT a fair statement.

Abrams: "I was, frankly, never really a fan. I never really got it. I never really cared much about it. Most of my friends who loved it were, without question, smarter than I was. I kept trying..."

"When I said yes, it was because… I’d never thought of it, ever… but what occurred to me as I was being asked was "There’s a version of it that I could see getting interested in."

"Maybe I wasn’t in the right frame of mind as a kid. I don’t know what it was. I have since watched a number of them and actually have actually come to really appreciate the show."

So, it's fine if you think his effort was a steaming pile, but unless you've got some personal access to the man's brain, to claim he made no attempt to get it is ridiculous.


I don't think the man is telling the truth.
I think he is greasy hack and that's the kind of things they say in Hollywood.
Bottomline it shows in the final product that at a minimum he failed to understand TOS fundamentally.
So lying or telling the truth, results are the same.
Meyers the proof is in the pudding, his films have the nautical flavor he claimed to be inspired from.
 
This thread has really taken off. I'll just say two things and go "into darkness" until the movie comes out.

1. The studio should have made a new space action movie instead of rebooting Star Trek like they did. It would be more risk but the reboot barely has the spirit of Star Trek.

2. They call the Enterprise a "starship" for a reason. It has shuttle craft and transporters for a reason. I can't wait to fully see the reason now of the confirmed water scene.
 
Hmmm, yeah, fresh perspective – all well and good. I can certainly understand that. But anyone who thinks that Paramount creates anything for the good of ‘the people’ is sadly misguided. They haven’t ‘given’ fans anything; they’ve used fans dedication as a way to profit themselves. (I always just think of them as a closed group of Ferengi, focused solely on the profit!) Fine. Whatever. But without appreciating the entirety of Trek and it’s long and complicated storylines, the intricately woven themes, back-stories, relationships, etc., is like what is happening with so many uneducated people today… they fail to learn about history and are destined to repeat it’s mistakes. Same goes, on a smaller scale, for the unique character of the history of the Trek franchise.

It’s like watching some young whipper-snapper thinking he’s going to recreate the wheel, cause HE KNOW EVERYTHING! The world started when HE got on. New is NOT always better. And while I think that if a fresh perspective can breathe new life into it, and consequently bring new fans on board, then fabulous! I love that part of it. But to be flip and inattentive to the well-established and rich cornucopia of stories that took decades to cultivate and pimp out such an already opulent milieu, is just such a damn waste. And it's disrepectful. That whole perspective and attitude just pis**s me off!

Sorry for being such a pessimist.
 
get-off-my-lawn.jpg


Just kidding. :) I agree with you, to be honest. I suppose that makes me a curmudgeon, too. Hang on while I go get my Garand. I'll meet you on the lawn in a minute.
 
I would welcome a return to a more thoughtful and more Trek like Trek but I don't see it happening for awhile. In the meantime we get JJ's big screen Gold Key Comics adaptation.

Seriously if everyone is sick of seeing big CGI action fests where cities get trashed and bigger than life characters fight and bicker like idiots then maybe they should stop making those movies the biggest box office successes. That is why Trek is now so generic, that seems to be what people want. Stop going to the same damn movie over and over and maybe Hollywood will get a clue. Yeah I know I'm dreaming. :lol
 
Paramount gave the fans a third season of TOS when it was about to get cancelled. There were two seasons of animated Trek. They gave the fans seven seasons of TNG, seven seasons of DS9, seven seasons of Voyager, and five seasons of Enterprise. That’s approximately eight hundred episodes. On top of that they gave the fans six movies with the original cast and four movies with the TNG cast. How the hell have they not been generous to the fans?

They've never "given" us a thing. Paramount (and in the TOS example, NBC) green lit what they thought would make them a profit. And there's nothing wrong with that...it's called running a business. If they were in the mood of giving, we'd have had 7 years of Enterprise instead of 4 despite low ratings and low revenue. No exec keeps his job "giving" fans anything.
 
As a 44 year old TOS fan, I think the '09 film was pretty solid. It wasn't STAR TREK to me but my wife, who is not a fan, enjoyed it. So I would suggest JJ did a pretty admirable job and i am not a huge JJ fanboy. I'm looking forward to this new film although I think the marketing for it has been a disaster. This cat and mouse game over the villain has been poorly executed by Bad Robot.

Curiously, Enterprise is the only other Trek my wife will watch with me.
 
.... It wasn't STAR TREK to me but my wife, who is not a fan, enjoyed it...

This sums it up for me, it's an attitude I've seen repeated ad-nausea since the film came out person-x (a friend, partner, etc) who isn't a Trek fan liked it.

It was liked by people who don't like Star Trek? Well, that kinda puts the seal on it not feeling like a true Trek movie, right?
 
They've never "given" us a thing. Paramount (and in the TOS example, NBC) green lit what they thought would make them a profit. And there's nothing wrong with that...it's called running a business. If they were in the mood of giving, we'd have had 7 years of Enterprise instead of 4 despite low ratings and low revenue. No exec keeps his job "giving" fans anything.

Giving as in producing, as in making the shows because there was still an audience eager for them. For almost forty years they “gave” us five very entertaining programs that pretty much stuck to a formula. They kept making them because the fan base was there and that is what we wanted.

That is what I meant by “gave”. I realize they were not magnanimously handing out TV shows to those that asked and that they were doing it in order to make money.

I think that by the time Enterprise was in its last season the demand wasn't anywhere near as strong hence they stopped "giving" or producing any new Trek.
 
It was on a Nerdist interview. Here's the full quote of what he said:


Abrams: "I was, frankly, never really a fan. I never really got it. I never really cared much about it. Most of my friends who loved it were, without question, smarter than I was. I kept trying... and I couldn’t get it. I didn’t care about it. It felt stilted. It is ironic because a lot of the tone and techniques and some of the writers as well were from The Twilight Zone. When you watch it, you’d go, ‘God, there is that same kind of melodramatic vibe.’ A lot of the writers were the same writers. You’d think someone who loved The Twilight Zone as much as I did would kind of find a kinship to that show and get on board. I couldn’t do it. I enjoyed the movies that I saw, the early films, but I never looked forward to them. So, when I was mixing Mission: Impossible III… I was asked if I was interested in producing a Star Trek movie. When I said yes, it was because… I’d never thought of it, ever… but what occurred to me as I was being asked was "There’s a version of it that I could see getting interested in." And it was weird, because I couldn’t tell you what it was. I just knew that if Star Trek were done in a certain way, with an approach that somehow let me in more… I was actually being given the opportunity to at least attempt to do something that I wished had existed for me as a kid trying to get into it, which is a way in, which is an emotional way in, that was not was not about the Enterprise or Starfleet or the Prime Directive or any of that stuff, that was completely emotional. I thought if that existed I probably would have found a way in. Now, maybe I saw the wrong episodes. Maybe I wasn’t in the right frame of mind as a kid. I don’t know what it was. I have since watched a number of them and actually have actually come to really appreciate the show. "

So basically new Trek is for stupid people. I'm sorry, I don't want to share Trek with stupid people. I don't like being all inclusive. If you just don't "get" the franchise, then the show isn't for you. Don't try and change it for what you like. It's this all-inclusive, "let's make a program everyone can enjoy" attitude that causes crap like sparkly vampires and ultra-distilled space adventures to wipe out the original stories in the mind of the populace. I loved Trek '09, it was fun and had tons of loving call backs, but I abhor JJ's reasons for taking on the project and I abhor the fact that, unlike the transition from TOS to TNG, we actually went backwards in terms of semi-plausible pseudoscience.
 
Curiously, Enterprise is the only other Trek my wife will watch with me.

Isn't that the series where the ship's doctor successfully convinced Captain Archer (who of all the characters in Star Trek is the only one acknowledged JJ's Trek) that the extinction of an intelligent race was preferable to co-existing with another race on the grounds that it was simply natural? It seems that fans of JJ's Trek like their Star Trek characters to be cold blooded moral less leaders.
 
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