Star Trek Into Darkness (Pre-release)

Did I see a different movie in 09? I don't rememeber anywhere old Spock saying, "So here I was transported to another universe that is different than the one I grew old in."

But I did hear young Spock say, "Now that Nero has come back in time, our TIMELINE has been altered! Whatever may have been the course of events has now changed going forward."

Where does the alternate universe come from? Fanboy pandering who just can't accept that TOS has been re-booted?

Same universe, alternate timeline now that Nero came back and Death Star-ed the planet Alderan...I mean, Vulcan! :lol
 
The fact that Spock Prime still exists with his original memories in the '09 movie universe would suffice that it's indeed an alternate universe. The TOS canon remains intact. At least that's how I took it in regards to the changes.
 
Well, so much forthe assertion that the new trek film takes place entirely on Earth.
Descriptions of the first 9 minutes of the film (which will be shown at the IMAX screening of the Hobbit) claim that that Kirk and Bones are exploring the red vegetation planet of Nibiri when they start being chased by face painted natives.
Meanwhile Spock is in a shuttle trying to prevent an erupting volcano from destroying the planets species.
 
NakedMoleRat said:
Did I see a different movie in 09? I don't rememeber anywhere old Spock saying, "So here I was transported to another universe that is different than the one I grew old in."

But I did hear young Spock say, "Now that Nero has come back in time, our TIMELINE has been altered! Whatever may have been the course of events has now changed going forward."

Where does the alternate universe come from? Fanboy pandering who just can't accept that TOS has been re-booted?

Same universe, alternate timeline now that Nero came back and Death Star-ed the planet Alderan...I mean, Vulcan! :lol
Click to expand...
Although I completely agree with you, if you've ever watched much Stargate, then they're all equally valid universes
 
Riceball said:
Plus there's also the fact that if you put on a show in the original timeline it would probably end up failing because it would confuse all of the people who would tune in because they only know Trek through the JJ Trek and thinking that it would be set in the JJ Trek timeline/universe.
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There will always be an element of confusion when it comes to spinoffs and TV series in general. And to be quite honest, if you look at all the merchandise that's been going around for Star Trek from toys, music, games and even comics, a lot of it is focused primarily on the original time line. Diamond Select is working on their Bird of Prey and Excelsior ships, Star Trek Online is still online, we have a new book called "The first 150 years of Starfleet" which is set in the original timeline, we even have a huge technical book dedicated solely to the Klingon Bird of Prey.

Trek09 barely had anything past it's toy license. You had a toy of the Enterprise but no Narada to fight with (Guess you could blame the ship being made of spikes), an incomplete line of figures who's only differences were their heads and a very uninspired game such as Star Trek DAS. Sure, we've gotten the QMx replica phaser and scale model (Has anyone bought that sucker yet?) and a few comics, but I think it's a safe bet that the original time line is still strong in people's minds. Especially with the High Definition release of The Next Generation on BluRay.
 
CessnaDriver said:
Get Trek back on TV and get some writers that understand what the hell it's supposed to be about. It's not complicated, but sadly I think more cerebral Trek by definition will not bring the viewership numbers that networks require. They need to get outside the usual Nielsen metric of success.
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Kirk bare-chested and punching God = cerebral. Kirk bare-knuckle boxing a papier-mache lizard = cerebral. Kirk and Spock punching each other over a girl = cerebral. Kirk punc...you know what, forget it. Where did this notion that ST was some literary bastion of the thinking man come from? Wasn't Roddenberry's concept 'Wagon train to the stars'? Where does 'Kirk, shirtless, makes out with the Hawt alien chick' go on the sliding scale of intellectual SF scripts in relation to Gattaca? ST was also designed to be FUN - it had weird aliens, fun banter between the cast, and adventure. Somehow that got a little lost along the (cough...TNG) way.
 
Vivek said:
The fact that Spock Prime still exists with his original memories in the '09 movie universe would suffice that it's indeed an alternate universe.
Click to expand...

Come now Vivek, that's never been the consistent portrayal of time travel in Star Trek. Remember the Deep Space Nine two-parter Past Tense? We have characters going back in time, actually altering the time line and come back remembering how the original time line used to be different.

And what about Yesterday's Enterprise? Guinan was able to remember the proper time line, so there's no dimensional change there. We even saw the timeline change right before our eyes the moment the Enterprise C came through the rift.

There's even a whole Department called the Temporal Investigations who's sole job is to ensure no one screws up the time line.
 
Trek09 barely had anything past it's toy license. You had a toy of the Enterprise but no Narada to fight with (Guess you could blame the ship being made of spikes), an incomplete line of figures who's only differences were their heads and a very uninspired game such as Star Trek DAS. Sure, we've gotten the QMx replica phaser and scale model (Has anyone bought that sucker yet?) and a few comics, but I think it's a safe bet that the original time line is still strong in people's minds. Especially with the High Definition release of The Next Generation on BluRay.
Click to expand...

i think this may be the first time I've ever heard an argument that a film should be driven by merchandise.
 
Vivek said:
The fact that Spock Prime still exists with his original memories in the '09 movie universe would suffice that it's indeed an alternate universe. The TOS canon remains intact. At least that's how I took it in regards to the changes.
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By that logic, The Doctor (Who that is) should forget who he is every time the TARDIS lands!
 
Timmythekid said:
Kirk bare-chested and punching God = cerebral. Kirk bare-knuckle boxing a papier-mache lizard = cerebral. Kirk and Spock punching each other over a girl = cerebral. Kirk punc...you know what, forget it. Where did this notion that ST was some literary bastion of the thinking man come from? Wasn't Roddenberry's concept 'Wagon train to the stars'? Where does 'Kirk, shirtless, makes out with the Hawt alien chick' go on the sliding scale of intellectual SF scripts in relation to Gattaca? ST was also designed to be FUN - it had weird aliens, fun banter between the cast, and adventure. Somehow that got a little lost along the (cough...TNG) way.
Click to expand...

No no, I agree, it must be fun, it must be entertaining, but again good Trek it should make people think too in between all that stuff. Think how many episodes ended contemplative, or the debates between McCoy and Spock. I described earlier how it roped people in with the entertainment and got them thinking. That is how you build a following to last right?
Or Trek would have ended up just like Lost in Space.

And I am in love with the exploration of space Trek portrayed.
The five year mission. THE five year mission! The whole mission statement
at the beginning of the show should be driving everything from behind.
Why they are out there in the first place to meet hot alien chicks and fight monsters.
To explore, to seek out, to better ourselves through that grand trek to the stars.
 
I think this discussion has officially entered into the wrong movie franchises understanding of time travel. Marty Mcfly is not a Starfleet Captain.

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2
 
CessnaDriver said:
And I am in love with the exploration of space Trek portrayed.
The five year mission. THE five year mission! The whole mission statement
at the beginning of the show should be driving everything from behind.
Why they are out there in the first place to meet hot alien chicks and fight monsters.
To explore, to seek out, to better ourselves through that grand trek to the stars.
Click to expand...

I don't remember the episode, but there was a scene where Kirk and others were in the breifing room where he had a very powerful speach about why they were out in space. To me, this was one of TOS Trek's best moments.
 
AJK001 said:
I don't remember the episode, but there was a scene where Kirk and others were in the breifing room where he had a very powerful speach about why they were out in space. To me, this was one of TOS Trek's best moments.
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Legendary........




I thirst for this kind of message again.
 
stid625.jpg
 
Jeyl said:
Come now Vivek, that's never been the consistent portrayal of time travel in Star Trek. Remember the Deep Space Nine two-parter Past Tense? We have characters going back in time, actually altering the time line and come back remembering how the original time line used to be different.

And what about Yesterday's Enterprise? Guinan was able to remember the proper time line, so there's no dimensional change there. We even saw the timeline change right before our eyes the moment the Enterprise C came through the rift.
Click to expand...
You make valid points. I remember watching Yesterday's Enterprise, but I haven't seen much of Deep Space Nine episodes, but I get what you mean about Past Tense. If the time travelers after changing the past and arriving in their present were able to remember the original timeline, Spock Prime would be able to do the same without necessarily being in another universe.

Though I am not suggesting that every instance of change in the past in the Star Trek universe results in alternate universes (nor does it happen in the BTTF universe for anyone thinking otherwise); the arrival of Nero and destruction of Kelvin brought in a new timeline, but is it still plausible to consider that the establishment of the new timeline was taking place in another universe itself, while the old timeline still remained in the original universe?

Cause that's another way we can go on accepting the changes that were made to the characters but also to their ships and technology. Besides that's what the '09 Trek writers also referred to, original universe and parallel universe back in 2009.

Paramount provided that new picture with the caption that Cumberbatch's character name is John Harrison, though some are suggesting that it's to throw off fans from the real name.
 
Vivek said:
Though I am not suggesting that every instance of change in the past in the Star Trek universe results in alternate universes (nor does it happen in the BTTF universe for anyone thinking otherwise); the arrival of Nero and destruction of Kelvin brought in a new timeline, but is it still plausible to consider that the establishment of the new timeline was taking place in another universe itself, while the old timeline still remained in the original universe?
Click to expand...

I am absolutely open to that possibility, but until these two universe manage to interact or show the original time line following the events of Romulas' destruction, I'm still not convinced. For one thing, Spock's dialogue explaining how Nero is from the future and how it connects to the alternate reality concept is not convincing at all. Yes, Nero is from the future, but how does that lead to "alternate reality"? There is no evidence.

And to be quite honest, Trek09 doesn't even know how to handle time travel dialogye.

Kirk: *To Spock* You travelled back in time. Changed all our lives.

No. Spock just got here. That was Nero who did all the changing.

Kirk: Going back in time, changing things. That's cheating.
Spock: A trick I learned from a friend.

No. This is not cheating. Spock arrived in a time line that has already been compromised and forever changed. There is no "changing" when nothing can be pre-determined. Heck, I would argue that his giving aid is doing more to help keep the time line like it was than it would be if he did nothing. Why is Spock being labeled the one who acted like he traveled back in time and changed characters' lives intentionally when that is clearly not the case?
 
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