Shapeways and "recasting"

Yes Shapeways is in fact few point click with a mouse to get an object. Google sketchup is push pull object with a mouse to make it 3d.

you clearly missed the point of what I was saying, shapeways does not just have all these models up there for purchase, someone has to create them. Which is no different than buying a prop from someone who scratch builds it, that person puts in the work to create a master product, or in this case 3d file. and someone is purchasing a copy of that. no difference at all.

someone has to use something like sketchup, 3dsmax, maya, modo, zbrush, cinema 4d, lightwave, blender, or any other 3d package to create those 3d models you buy on shapeways. The way you are describing things here is as if there was no work behind them. Which is completely false. 3d models don't just appear out of nowhere.
 
maybe new members need to be aware that copying stuff via Shapeways or 3d print can be considered "recasting" on the RPF.
 
Last edited:
But this copying word we keep using. That needs to be defined. If you put 6 circles and I put 7, that's copying? if I move them to the left by a millimeter, thats different? it's so vague. I created the file myself without touching your object, and the CAD file is my creation.
 
I sculpt, use Shapeways, and have a CNC mill. I like using all of them, and they all have their own place.

Megatron, I think you're confusing your anger at being copied with your anger at the ease in which a 3D model can become reality. It's true, a Shapeways artist didn't mold or cast that piece. Are they any less of an artist?

I don't think your anger at being copied is misplaced. Whether he had used your piece to create a sculpt or a 3D model, he copied your design. Zenix, you admit that what you did was bad form, but nowhere are you apologetic in your post. This conversation could have all been over with a simple "I was wrong and I'll fix it."
 
Last edited:
you clearly missed the point of what I was saying, shapeways does not just have all these models up there for purchase, someone has to create them. Which is no different than buying a prop from someone who scratch builds it, that person puts in the work to create a master product, or in this case 3d file. and someone is purchasing a copy of that. no difference at all.

someone has to use something like sketchup, 3dsmax, maya, modo, zbrush, cinema 4d, lightwave, blender, or any other 3d package to create those 3d models you buy on shapeways. The way you are describing things here is as if there was no work behind them. Which is completely false. 3d models don't just appear out of nowhere.

I know how Shapeways works I have had them make stuff for my own research and test. And yes they do have all these models up there for purchase -have you been to the site and seen the options?
 
Megatron,

I think you should focus on the details of your work that may have been copied and back off the "Shapeways is bad" argument. Shapeways is just another tool, no more, no less. Would you come in here and bag on Smooth-on for selling silicone that enables people to recast?
 
I know how Shapeways works I have had them make stuff for my own research and test. And yes they do have all these models up there for purchase -have you been to the site and seen the options?

swing and a miss again. YES the models are there for purchase. but NO they did not just appear out of nowhere. Someone has to create them and upload them to shapeways, it doesn't matter who, but someone has to put the work into creating the original 3d model.
 
[snip]No, let me be clear. I'm changing the details because... they're innacurate. New photos have come to light detailing the front section, as well as new information regarding the back section. I've currently stopped accepting orders for the key and I've set my model on Shapeways to not allow further sales until this topic is resolved. Regarding the original post about tagging Shapeways objects, items which are available on Shapeways and linked from here already show that they're from shapeways. The links say something like Awesome Ring by baltimore on Shapeways, right in the link description. They are tagged as 'being from shapeways.'

If this style of copying is not allowed on the rpf, then we need policies in place detailing this.
There is no need to have policies detailing this, they already exist. Copying another member's work is not allowed, period.

Everyone needs to be clear on this issue, we are not talking about personal opinion/preference, or rules in place elsewhere, we are talking about the established rules of the RPF. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with them, every member has to abide by them. If you had not made the change already, you would have been instructed to do so.

The particular technique used to create something is not relevant to the issue of copying another member's work without permission.

Again, just so there is no confusion... personal feelings and rules in place elsewhere are not relevant when discussing what is and is not allowed here.
 
3D Modeling is a versatile skill-set to have; no one is putting that down. However at the same token, having the skills to make a master mold from something has it's own skills and techniques. As the members are all to aware, both can be used for recasting. Though I think there is a little too much praise for how awesome a 3D Modeler is. If a skilled modeler wanted to, he/she could copy someone else's work in a matter of hours. Without ever touching the original work.

Take the Tardis key for example. Megatron provided the perfect reference pictures for me to make a model, upload it to shapeways, and sell it. All in a matter of HOURS. It's scary at times how much of a turnkey business of doing this can be. But shapeways is nothing more than another tool to use. It's up to the individual modeler on what he/she uploads to it.
 
juno, I understand your post but do not think it is that simple. I know it is bad form, in the sense that just like when a company in china decides to make something cheaper we're like... guh chinese junk.

It's bad form in the sense where one member is doing a run of 1/12.67 scale boba fett helmets and another guy comes along and does the same run of the same exact scale. It's far from against the rules, but if my roommate started selling hot dogs on the street corner two days after I also started selling hot dogs, I'd want to smack him for doing the same thing as me... it's stupid and annoying but not... wrong. That's the sense I mean. I've started a run/interest thread in the past for an item similar to someone else, and they PMed me, and said hey Todd, can you please not do this, or not do it now or something like that. They didn't start accusing me of recasting for doing the same thing as them... I'm not apologetic because I don't think it's WRONG because of the way I created the file. If i created it from pouring silicon over it, that's another story.

This conversation should not end here with this one item. Rules should be decided upon, by the staff, on what the new forms of 'recasting' are in this digital age. I've got awesome 3d scanners... where is the rule on that? I'm not gonna go just scan a han solo buy without getting permission from the person from whom I got it... but what rule on the RPF tells me that's the case? Don't take this the wrong way... I don't have the answer. The govt doesn't either. 3d manufacturing is so new to the public, and there are going to be big cases based on this. Intellectual property rights are old and need to be revised, not just here on the rpf, and certainly a few circles on one key are not going to be the end of this on therpf.

as far as laser scanning goes, there are so many kinds. A question to be asked is this... am I allowed to take a greeblie someone else made, and measure its length with calipers so I can create my own greeblie of the same length? I think most people would say yes, thats cool cuz it's just one measurement. The next question is, can I do that same thing 5 million times with a laserbeam to get the model? I'd say no probably not. The real question is, how many points of data before it becomes ' digital recasting'? There is a way to scan objects by taking a few points of data, which is just enough to use that as a guide to generate a model, but not scanning every surface in high detail, just taking like 12 measurements or so, so those points are created on the computer and serve as guides for CAD modeling. is that allowed? Who knows.

This thread should not be about a key, it should be about the entire scope of digital copying as it applies to the rpf.
 
Megatron, you understand that someone opens a shop on Shapeways. They receive a percentage or a flat rate for every piece printed. It's very similar to Cafe Press or any other site that allows you to sell your work without doing the production or fulfillment.

Zenix created a model, put it in his shop, and is paid a commission whenever someone purchases it.
 
Last edited:
I sculpt, use Shapeways, and have a CNC mill. I like using all of them, and they all have their own place.

Megatron, I think you're confusing your anger at being copied with your anger at the ease in which a 3D model can become reality. It's true, a Shapeways artist didn't mold or cast that piece. Are they any less of an artist?

I don't think your anger at being copied is misplaced. Whether he had used your piece to create a sculpt or a 3D model, he copied your design. Xenix, you admit that what you did was bad form, but nowhere are you apologetic in your post. This conversation could have all been over with a simple "I was wrong and I'll fix it."

my concern is members thinking its ok to 3d model and only by changing a few things its a new original and not a copy.

The easy ability now to get 3d printing is new and needs to be address here in what the RPF considers recasting..we do need guidelines for it.

What is going to happen when 3d scanner is ability becomes more available? I know a lot of forsight is that 3d printers will become the norm at homes and shops. Desktop 3d printers are already in kit forms.

The technology has change the easy to copy and make things and needs some addressing.
 
In response to Montegar,

Where does it become copying? Megatron has some circles and lines on the back of his key. Am I allowed to have different circles and lines in other positions? Larger diameter circles in the same relative position? I feel it's far too vague to simply say no copying.

There is something I designed based on pictures no one else had. Someone else took the pictures of my final design and added those details. He should be asked to remove them too?
 
my concern is members thinking its ok to 3d model and only by changing a few things its a new original and not a copy.

The easy ability now to get 3d printing is new and needs to be address here in what the RPF considers recasting..we do need guidelines for it.

What is going to happen when 3d scanner is ability becomes more available? I know a lot of forsight is that 3d printers will become the norm at homes and shops. Desktop 3d printers are already in kit forms.

The technology has change the easy to copy and make things and needs some addressing.

100% agree with this. It's too shortsighted to say the rules don't need to be discussed.
 
Zenix, your examples are wrong. It'd be like we're both doing Boba Fett helmet and I come up with a design for the inside and you use my design for yours, then, you sell it. You have an advantage over Megatron because he has to sculpt his work. 3D is definitely much faster. (Note that I didn't say easier.)

I guess the way I've looked at copying on this forum is not whether or not something is falling within some law, but how it would make the other person feel. How would you feel if this situation was reversed?
 
Juno,

It was reversed and I didn't speak up because I agree with my position. There are details on the GL ring that I got from pictures that were not publicly available, and someone else started producing the ring that looked like mine, using photos of my finished ring as reference. I didn't speak up because he's allowed to put nicks on his ring too.
 
Last edited:
I'm also concerned and have been for a while. I've posted in the past about this topic and have always been told we don't need policies. How would you feel, in general Megatron, if someone did something like the key, but don't he back moved the circles in a different position? Or moved the nicks around.
 
I know how Shapeways works I have had them make stuff for my own research and test. And yes they do have all these models up there for purchase -have you been to the site and seen the options?


Yes, the 3d arts do sell products on the shapeways site. But the click and buy there is no different then if I sculpt a laser gun, drop it in silicon myself and sell 100s of copies of it. If I have the spaeways "store front" to sell my items, does it make my replicas less important then the resin copies I've sold? or are the shapeways copies of lesser quality?

You seem to be compairing people selling copies of their work with a sulpter's ability to create a master.

I've purchased alot of gaming sized Starships from Shapeways. I've also bouth alot of resin cast ones. In both cases all I've done is click and purchased. I don't see the differences here.

But this still seems to be the basis of your arguement.
 
This thread is more than 12 years old.

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

  1. This thread hasn't been active in some time. A new post in this thread might not contribute constructively to this discussion after so long.
If you wish to reply despite these issues, check the box below before replying.
Be aware that malicious compliance may result in more severe penalties.
Back
Top