ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies Found

Lichtbringer · Jun 30, 2011

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

clutch said:
Recasting measurements? Oy-vey!

Not recasting measurements, but recasting with measurements.

Lets say person one has bought a real flashhider for some hundred Dollars (or knows someone who has), to take the measurements for making a replica.

Now someone buys one of his flashhiders/finds one/know someone who has a replica, uses it´s measurement to make copies to sell them in high numbers. What would you call that?

Lichtbringer · Jun 30, 2011

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

kpax said:
We all need to be sensitive to this issue.

Aye.

kpax said:
I hope we can continue to develop these parts together as a group. More eyes, more observations equal better details.

With a open eye for the booby traps in this hobby - yes.

kpax said:
It seems that most here prefer the HERO as known in the promos and stills available with or without a sight and or antenna etc.

I prefer to start there wher others end - as accurate as possible. But then altering details, mostly making greeblies from metal that were found plastic parts on the original. If possible the same look, but not the same material.

kpax said:
I may be different than some here in that I don't put that much stock in the REAL dimensions, since every Mauser (Denix, MGC or REAL) is different and that parts that look good on the hero REAL version may be out of place on another.

I think many parts are close enough if made in one size to be interchangeable between the versions.

kpax said:
As I said, I needed to adjust the parts based on comparing the Hero photos to photos of my model and just like the FH, the ones we have, while pretty close and good are not "screen accurate" in appearance which is why I am remaking mine to match the photos, not particularly a REAL MG81 which as Lichtbringer said were made in many factories and all were slightly different but the one that is shown on the HERO.

Not "all were different" - but differencies happened. Let´s say after a bomb raid there was no way to get replacement radius cutter in 6mm, if possible they would have used the next size, or grind a bigger one down, to keep production running. These Fh would look slighly different, and after new 6mm cutters come in, they would again make it as the other factories again.

kpax said:
In my view, once this is done, any dimensions from the original reproduction (a contradiction in terms?) will be changed and therefor NEW information.

Is this a fair assessment?

Why use any dimensions from a copy? We can go by the pics, and a real one if we get hold on such info - by using a replica we could always copy mistakes others made before.

kpax said:
I believe my FH to be a reproduction of a REAL vintage MG81 and was not made by anyone in the RPF and not made as a prop and was indeed made for a REAL, firing MG81 which is why I am comfortable sharing the measurements.

Hmmm, the Fh replicas were made with the internal details to be sold to the gun collectors, too - not only to the prop guys. You can take any of it and have it work with a real MG81.

kpax said:
I believe all the working dimensions should be as
close as we can get to the HERO if that was a real MG81 and we have no reason to doubt it at this point, remembering the fact that many factories were used so there were differences etc. even a vintage MG81 would not LOOK like the SW HERO.

The Straight knurling, bullet knurling, recess between, and I believe the holes on the HERO are slightly smaller than mine.

Again, the ones I bought as REAL FHs, are great for shooting but not for cosmetically replicating the SW prop.

Imho we should only rely on dimensions from real vintage Fh, and on details we can see and measure from pics.

kpax · Jun 30, 2011

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

Here are some proofs I found tying the ST scope and mount to the SW HERO.

Let me know what you think.

How likely for Two Different scopes to have the lens retaining ring notches line up exactly at the same angle. Hard to do it on purpose with the fine threads on a scope?

Michael, you have an Original scope, do your notches angle the same way, lets say 11:25 GMT?

Note the worn, rubbed and rusted area on the HERO scope in front of the adjustment knob where a RING used to be?

Note the FLAT areas on the inside (toward gun) rings on both the HERO and ST mount...coincidence?

KEEP IN MIND THE SCOPE IS REVERSED ON THE HERO AND THINK INNER AND OUTER SCOPE MOUNT.

deadbolt · Jun 30, 2011

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

Nice observations Pat, It seems likely now that could very well be the same Scope and Mount used! Maybe the Sitting Target Mauser was an Elstree Prop?

Now we know, and knowing is half the battle. :thumbsup

-Carson

kpax · Jun 30, 2011

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

A FEW MORE OBSERVATIONS

PS: SHOULD SAY "KNOB" NOT KNOW BUT TOO LAZY TO CHANGE

KNURLED SCREW DETAIL

kpax · Jun 30, 2011

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

ONE MORE FOR THE ST AND SW SCOPE AND MOUNT MATCH

kpax · Jun 30, 2011

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

Sorry about the cap lock

What are the chances of the rear AND front fine thread lens rings lining up exactly the same?

kpax · Jun 30, 2011

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

Here is some prelim details to show the NEW found details of thickness and inner REAR surface detail.

square hole thru and rear top dovetail detail

kpax · Jun 30, 2011

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

here is my thought.

Note the damaged areas on the upper receiver rail as circled.

not there on the pre- production HERO without disk.

There on the post production with the disk.

That spot is suspiciously in the same location as the rings on the ST AND DISK area.

Could it be that the prop guys tried to put the scope on the SW Bull Barrel NR hero on the left somehow and the rings either impacted the frame leaving a dent, possibly by dropping it?

Again, maybe it wouldn't holster properly so they switched it to the right?

Why the disk ???

kpax · Jun 30, 2011

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

here is a comparison between the SW left HERO with disk and the ST Mauser with dovetail.

Note where the center screw hole in the dovetail lines up.

Hirohawa · Jun 30, 2011

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

Wow!

Some people here could make a lot of money as a Private Investigator or a forensic expert. Amazing.

Ham Solo · Jul 1, 2011

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

Hirohawa said:
Wow!

Some people here could make a lot of money as a Private Investigator or a forensic expert. Amazing.

You said it! My head is spinning!

Keep up the great work, folks! :thumbsup

kpax · Jul 1, 2011

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

But why the Circle Disk?

Could it be a form of Crop Circle.....

kpax · Jul 1, 2011

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

Just got a set of full Mauser measurements from Dcarty. He took a lot of time to fill in the template I made and measured up a REAL, MGC AND an MR EE Mauser replica.

I will post for him shortly but first wanted to be sure it was OK to post the MR s vitals.

Let me know.

With Dcartys great help, we now have a comparison between 3 of the possible base frames on which to build the best DL-44 possible.

We still need someone with an unaltered Denix to fill in the blanks. I will measure up mine and check the changes I made as well.

Thanks Again Dave!! Great work.

deadbolt · Jul 1, 2011

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

Thanks Dcarty! That's great! :thumbsup

Hard to say for sure why the disk is there.. to make us ask questions? :lol lets hope not.

-Carson

dcarty · Jul 1, 2011

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

My pleasure guys! Hopefully the measurements will prove useful. I tried to ensure that I was getting everything as precise as I could across all three samples.

Dave

lonepigeon · Jul 1, 2011

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

deadbolt said:
Nice observations Pat, It seems likely now that could very well be the same Scope and Mount used! Maybe the Sitting Target Mauser was an Elstree Prop?

Now we know, and knowing is half the battle. :thumbsup

-Carson

The gun props were made by Bapty which was the largest gun rental place in England. They're also professional gunsmiths so they did all the custom work. The Naked Runner and Sitting Target guns are both from Bapty as well.
I'm sure the scope mount on the ST target is the same.

deadbolt · Jul 1, 2011

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

dcarty said:
My pleasure guys! Hopefully the measurements will prove useful. I tried to ensure that I was getting everything as precise as I could across all three samples.

Dave

They will be very useful, it's wonderful that you took the time to take so many measurements to help this Project!

The differences really aren't too drastic, so the scale of pieces should work for all versions with a good level of accuracy. :thumbsup

-Carson

deadbolt · Jul 1, 2011

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

Thanks for the info Chris! I should of known the gun props were from Babty, it's a little obvious now that I think about it.:unsure..:lol

lonepigeon said:
The gun props were made by Bapty which was the largest gun rental place in England. They're also professional gunsmiths so they did all the custom work. The Naked Runner and Sitting Target guns are both from Bapty as well.
I'm sure the scope mount on the ST target is the same.

Also something I thought about for the Mount setup on the DL-44, it seems likely that they took the Dovetail Attachment off the Sitting Target Mauser and mounted it on the Flat horizontal Bar for the DL-44. If so that would make the Mount's horizontal bar Two pieces. Seem likely to anyone else?

-Carson

kpax · Jul 1, 2011

Re: ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion

I think so too. I know Lichtbringer made and posted his that way a while back, I assumed he was correct and followed.

Do we need to make it this way? I know we all want it as close as possible but it "may" be cheaper to do in one piece. Less hand work drilling, tapping etc.

One note. The Knurled Screw, and from the video you can see it is a screw, remains on the T mount and pulls the mount against the dovetail.

Should we do this?

I made mine tap into the cross bar to help easily center the T mount and also not "pry" the dovetail off the bar IF it was made from weak material.

ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies Found

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