asalaw
Sr Member
Nice one! Thanks!
Game of Thrones
- Thread starter Husker75
- Start date
Exactly. Let's not forget that it was Sansa's blabbing of her father's plans to Cersei that led to his arrest and eventual separation of his head from the rest of his body.
asalaw
Sr Member
Maybe she was trying to buy time for Pinky to actually show up at the camp before Jon launched his attack, but couldn't share the information with Jon for the reasons cited above. Secrets confer an advantage, and she couldn't be sure anyway.
Dramatically, there's a much better chance now that Jon will include her in the meetings instead of marginalizing her. She definitely made her point. And I'd bet good money (or even kinda so-so money) that Ser Davos will back her. He's nothing if not finely attuned to the voice of reason. At least when it clubs him over the head.
Dramatically, there's a much better chance now that Jon will include her in the meetings instead of marginalizing her. She definitely made her point. And I'd bet good money (or even kinda so-so money) that Ser Davos will back her. He's nothing if not finely attuned to the voice of reason. At least when it clubs him over the head.
firesprite
Master Member
Hey, there's a fun video of George RR Martin and Stephen King interviewing one another. Check it out.
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Riceball
Master Member
Exactly, since she didn't know for sure Littlefinger would show it really wasn't worth mentioning since she knew that Jon wouldn't care or listen, he wouldn't be interested in possibilities, he was only interested in certainties. Remember, Sansa told him to wait a little longer, try to gather more forces, to which Jon angrily replies to he that they've already waited as long as they can and there were no more forces to be recruited and he has to go into battle with the forces he has. If Sansa had told him to wait, she had sent a raven to Littlefinger and he might show up you know what Jon would have said? I don't care, and that he can't wait on a maybe, he was concerned that every minute longer he waited to attack Ramsay that would be one more minute for him to (continue to) do something horrible to Rickon as well for Ramsay to further prepare his troops.
Riceball
Master Member
Stannis? He wanted Jon's support in return, the support of the Starks and the rest of the North to recognize him as the legitimate king of Westeros and the Seven Kingdoms and help him fight the Lannisters.
Solo4114
Master Member
Of course, the other way for Jon to have handled that would be to accept Stannis' offer, and then if and when Stannis loses, to hope he at least takes the Boltons out, at which point Jon can rule the North himself as a legitimized *******. Or, you know, get shanked, get rezzed, and get out of Night's Watch duties that way...
As for the battle, I think Sansa recognizes that Jon's fairly stubborn and, while an excellent leader of men, has some real blind spots when it comes to statecraft. He also has yet to really effectively learn to listen to counsel, because, for the most part, he hasn't had to. In his time in a position of leadership, he's had Sam, Dolorous Edd, and...that's about it. I actually would argue that Jon's problem is his hero/nobility complex. Like Ned, he rarely listens to other people's advice, and operates primarily on his sense of duty and honor. That inspires good men to follow him, but also bad men to manipulate him. While he ran the Night's Watch, he pretty much had yes-men and idiots surrounding him. Davos isn't quite either of those, but he's also nowhere near as savvy about how to "play the game" as, say, Sansa is (which she's learned as a survival mechanism). Melisandre...is unreliable. Tormund is a wildling and has no stomach or head for politics. He'd probably view political maneuvering as the weakness of "kneelers." Tormund's a fighter and a leader by example, and he follows Jon because Jon is, too.
Put simply, Jon and Dany both have major blindspots when it comes to actually RULING. They need people like Varys, Tyrion, and Sansa surrounding them, because only with them can they effectively MANAGE the Seven Kingdoms. They need people who can be devious for them, because neither of them is equipped to do so themselves.
As for the battle, I think Sansa recognizes that Jon's fairly stubborn and, while an excellent leader of men, has some real blind spots when it comes to statecraft. He also has yet to really effectively learn to listen to counsel, because, for the most part, he hasn't had to. In his time in a position of leadership, he's had Sam, Dolorous Edd, and...that's about it. I actually would argue that Jon's problem is his hero/nobility complex. Like Ned, he rarely listens to other people's advice, and operates primarily on his sense of duty and honor. That inspires good men to follow him, but also bad men to manipulate him. While he ran the Night's Watch, he pretty much had yes-men and idiots surrounding him. Davos isn't quite either of those, but he's also nowhere near as savvy about how to "play the game" as, say, Sansa is (which she's learned as a survival mechanism). Melisandre...is unreliable. Tormund is a wildling and has no stomach or head for politics. He'd probably view political maneuvering as the weakness of "kneelers." Tormund's a fighter and a leader by example, and he follows Jon because Jon is, too.
Put simply, Jon and Dany both have major blindspots when it comes to actually RULING. They need people like Varys, Tyrion, and Sansa surrounding them, because only with them can they effectively MANAGE the Seven Kingdoms. They need people who can be devious for them, because neither of them is equipped to do so themselves.
asalaw
Sr Member
Yeah, well, he's certainly Ned's son, by lifelong immersion in Stark culture if not biology.
asalaw
Sr Member
Now I think of it, that whole assasination had a very Roman feel, especially when Olly came in with the unkindest cut of all, and Jon responded with a look that said "et tu, Olly?"
Which makes Jon the only Lord Commander of the Night's Watch to be reborn by Caesarean.
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asalaw
Sr Member
Hey! Something I completely forgot to mention in my obsession with looking all smartypants with my GoT theme theory.
My wife has a theory of her own, and it absolutely pummeled my mind.
(My wife pummels me a lot, but that's probably OT...}
OK, now you can all tell me how you figured this out two seasons ago. For my mind is dark and full of errors.
My wife has a theory of her own, and it absolutely pummeled my mind.
(My wife pummels me a lot, but that's probably OT...}
Show of hands, who hates the High Sparrow, even though he's Cersei's worst enemy?
Yup. That's what I thought. Damn near all of you.
But he's not what he appears to be. No one in GoT ever is, just about, but in this case...
So far, the Sparrow looks like he's trying very hard to install the Westerosi equivalent of Sharia law in King's Landing. He's certainly made himself a nice little puppettommen. Every move Cersei makes he turns against her, applying ever more pressure, tightening the screws.
How long can he get away with that? After all, Jamie's on his way to King's Landing with the Lannister Army at his back, and I'm sure we all expect him to intervene rather violently at Cersei's trial. And he can do it. The Faith Militant are little more than Medieval brownshirts, armed thugs with spiky clubs but no experience at all fighting against a military opponent. Jamie's got approximately 1.237 metric assloads of cavalry. It'll be a rout, unless the Sparrow has an ace up his sleeve. But...
...what if that ace...
...is no ace at all?
What if he's deliberately making it impossible for himself to win the final confrontation?
What if he's been planning to bring down the Sept of Baelor, and the old gods and the new, all along?
In other words, what if he's really a Red Priest?
Mind. Blown.
Yup. That's what I thought. Damn near all of you.
But he's not what he appears to be. No one in GoT ever is, just about, but in this case...
So far, the Sparrow looks like he's trying very hard to install the Westerosi equivalent of Sharia law in King's Landing. He's certainly made himself a nice little puppettommen. Every move Cersei makes he turns against her, applying ever more pressure, tightening the screws.
How long can he get away with that? After all, Jamie's on his way to King's Landing with the Lannister Army at his back, and I'm sure we all expect him to intervene rather violently at Cersei's trial. And he can do it. The Faith Militant are little more than Medieval brownshirts, armed thugs with spiky clubs but no experience at all fighting against a military opponent. Jamie's got approximately 1.237 metric assloads of cavalry. It'll be a rout, unless the Sparrow has an ace up his sleeve. But...
...what if that ace...
...is no ace at all?
What if he's deliberately making it impossible for himself to win the final confrontation?
What if he's been planning to bring down the Sept of Baelor, and the old gods and the new, all along?
In other words, what if he's really a Red Priest?
Mind. Blown.
Monkey67
Sr Member
Jamie has the army, but doesn't have the Kings army nor the regular joe blow / poor people of kings landing. The king and sparrow will die by the zombie mountain at the jury hand out. Mother of drama is then gonna try to light the city up. But Jamie is gonna choke her out in time to save the city once more from hell fire.
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asalaw
Sr Member
I'm fine with that, as long as Septa Nazi McNazib*tch gets hers. Preferably as gruesomely as possible.
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firesprite
Master Member
I think that this is my favorite episode ever!
Lord Boron
Sr Member
what, can Varys bend time and space to get from one place to another? Fantastic episode, though very predictable. And boy, those northern lords are a fickle lot.
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nwjedidave
Sr Member
So who is going to make the Cersei finale jacket! My wife NEEDS one!!
