Marvel's Iron Fist (Netflix)

This is a tough one for me to watch because Daredevil blew me away and set the bar high, one of the best series ever! I couldn't stop watching it. I don't want to compare this to Daredevil because it's a different show, but I am having a hard time getting over the poor fighting choreography. I've heard the arguments........he's developing his skills, he's out of his element, etc, etc, but I'm not buying that him being unpolished was intentional and part of the story, it is what it is, just lack luster talent and poor execution. Never once felt that way with DD (again, not comparing show styles, but I am comparing fighting choreography and execution). I don't mind the acting, although a bit campy at times, but the fighting just seems so unnatural. I'll stick with it though and see if it improves.
 
This is a tough one for me to watch because Daredevil blew me away and set the bar high, one of the best series ever! I couldn't stop watching it. I don't want to compare this to Daredevil because it's a different show, but I am having a hard time getting over the poor fighting choreography. I've heard the arguments........he's developing his skills, he's out of his element, etc, etc, but I'm not buying that him being unpolished was intentional and part of the story, it is what it is, just lack luster talent and poor execution. Never once felt that way with DD (again, not comparing show styles, but I am comparing fighting choreography and execution). I don't mind the acting, although a bit campy at times, but the fighting just seems so unnatural. I'll stick with it though and see if it improves.

Developing his skills...? Did he not say multiple times he had spent the last 15 years doing nothing but learning martial arts?! There shouldn't be any need to "develop" those skills during the course of the show.
 
I'm not sure how to link it, but there is a post going "viral" of an Iron Fist fight scene.
Something like 58 cuts in 36 seconds. Maybe if someone knows how to grab it from Twitter they can post.

I don't know who to blame.. the actors, the directors, the editors, or just horrible American fight choreography. It's just crazy to me that they can give us something so well done as the stair scene in Daredevil and then absolutely bomb a show about martial arts.

I recently rewatched that Jackie Chan Every frame a painting video showing his older HK fight choreography and it's night and day compared to newer stuff.
 
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I'm not sure how to link it, but there is a post going "viral" of an Iron Fist fight scene.
Something like 58 cuts in 36 seconds. Maybe if someone knows how to grab it from Twitter they can post.

I don't know who to blame.. the actors, the directors, the editors, or just horrible American fight choreography. It's just crazy to me that they can give us something so well done as the stair scene in Daredevil and then absolutely bomb a show about martial arts.

I recently rewatched that Jackie Chan Every frame a painting video showing his older HK fight choreography and it's night and day compared to newer stuff.

They talk about it in this article and have links to the scene and a contrasting 1-shot Jackie Chan scene.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...n-1-fight-scene-video-edit-cuts-a7640966.html
 
Perfect, thank you! All I had seen it on was a twitter post and I don't know how to share that from the app. Glad there was an article!


Here is what I was referring to in case anyone was interested... though I will warn you.. if you watch it, you may end up binging a few hours worth of Jackie Chan flicks!
https://youtu.be/Z1PCtIaM_GQ

They talk about it in this article and have links to the scene and a contrasting 1-shot Jackie Chan scene.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...n-1-fight-scene-video-edit-cuts-a7640966.html
 
I don't get why people are so down on this show. IMHO it's much better than Jessica Jones was.

Or Luke Cage for that matter. I still have one more episode to go (was going to finish it last night but ran out of time), but I'd be more than happy to sit through another season of Iron Fist. You couldn't pay me to watch more Jessica Jones or Luke Cage.
 
I'm 2 episodes from finishing the series. It's not bad, but it's kind of all over the place.

- The Hand... I get that it's kind of like the ninja version of Hydra and that you can't really shut it down by killing one of the leaders. I don't think Danny or even Davos realize that. The fact that it starts with Madame Gao (which was one of many cool connections to the other shows) and jumps to Bakuto and also shows there are different factions within The Hand kind of diluted the idea of The Hand to me.
- Claire... obviously a major connection among the shows and the moral compass among them all as well. But for some reason I find her morality annoying in most of these shows though. Maybe that means I'm broken. I look at it as her just not seeing the big picture: that corruption is at every level with the organizations they're dealing with and simply "turning them over to the police" and "letting the justice system work" aren't options with this brand of scum. The whole idea of "we're not better than they are if we kill them" is a tired cliché. Maybe that's why Punisher appeals to me more.
- Rand Industries... the board of directors are as unethical as The Hand.
- I agree with what someone said earlier about the crazy person thing with Danny being dragged out a little long, but at the same time the build up worked. It was an interesting way for Danny, who was still pretty naïve, to be re-introduced into a world where nobody cares about anything but themselves and money. -
Didn't like the end where Joy has pretty much gone bad.

I didn't really like the choice for Danny at first but started feeling it a few episodes in.
I do like the conflict, doubt, and frustration that seems to grow within Danny over the course of the show as he is weened off of the monk lifestyle and into NYC billionaire lifestyle.
I like to think they cast Ward Meachum to be 50 Shades of Unlikeable. If that was their intent they nailed it. I don't think I'd ever seen the actor that played him before but I can't stand his face. Yet, but unlike-ability went from kind of annoying to enjoyable in how everything seems to go wrong for him.

I don't think the fight choreography is as bad as some people thought. I took a lot of Danny's movements as being very fluid and natural. The fights improved toward the end as well.

ETA: Finished today. The end was a little meh... I was hoping there would be some meet and greet with DD, LC, and JJ or some reference to The Defenders.

Overall, enjoyed it. Not as much as LC or DD, but fun nonetheless.
 
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"You are the worst Iron First ever."

Oh, Netflix. You shouldn't have done that. Because after that moment, every time Danny looked confused, sad or just plain angry, my Dad and I would just say that line out loud and it never got old.

Good lord, this series. What was the point? Ok, so this guy Danny can punch things really hard? So can Jessica Jones. He can stop the Hand? So can Dare Devil if he only knew a bit more about them. He can heal people? Leave that to Claire. Everyone likes her more than you Danny.

Joy? Pick a bloody side and stick with it. Every time you experience a new revelation (which happens in pretty much half of the episodes) you always change sides like it was meant to be. The series even ends with you switching sides AGAIN! Cripes, I hated you so freaking much. At least Ward was fun to watch as he spiraled out of control.

Still, nice to see Faramir got to keep the One Ring. He was robbed.
 
I'm three episodes into this so far. Certainly not the best Marvel Netflix excursion, but I am enjoying it.

One thing I have noticed so far (at least I think I noticed it) is the almost complete lack of typical kung fu sound effects during the fighting. No whhhp whhhp whhhp everytime someone's arm moves, so super hard CRACKS everytime a punch connects. Maybe this changes later on--you tell me.

I'm wondering if this is somehow subliminally telling our minds that the choreography is not right? Perhaps we are so conditioned to those sounds during martial arts movies, that not having them just feels wrong?
 
I've watched, I think, three episodes so far. On the whole, I like the show. I like how they're clearly setting up The Hand. I like how the character is basically portrayed as a complete naif, unschooled in how to interact with people and emotionally arrested at about age 10-12 or so. They even dress him like a kid.

The fight sequences that I've seen so far are...ok. They lack the impact of what you saw in the other three Marvel shows. I gather that there were several problems with the martial arts aspects of this show. Finn Jones himself says that he would be trying to get the choreography for a shot like 15 min before hand, and only had about 2-3 weeks to train before shooting started. That's nowhere near enough time. I know Jessica Henwick did a good job with her sequences, but I gather she trained hard, had a teeny bit of prior experience, and also had fewer (so I heard?) fight sequences.

I'm really hoping that the Defenders gives Finn time to seriously study and improve his skills, and that they shoot it better. Because while I don't think it's as godawful as everyone is saying, I definitely am not getting "greatest martial artist in the world" from the character thus far. I can excuse it as "chi not in alignment" but that only gets you a pass for Season 1. Beyond that, you gotta bring it, son.
 
I've watched, I think, three episodes so far. On the whole, I like the show. I like how they're clearly setting up The Hand. I like how the character is basically portrayed as a complete naif, unschooled in how to interact with people and emotionally arrested at about age 10-12 or so. They even dress him like a kid.

I think that you nailed it right on the head in your description of Danny as being emotionally arrested at age 10 - 12, that's what my wife and I thought and feel that's why Danny is being portrayed the way he is. People forget that even though he looks like a grown man he's, in many ways, still just a kid and not used to interacting with and as an adult much less the outside world. The plane crash was an event that had a huge emotional impact on Danny and instead of being able to grieve and adjust to his loss in a normal manner he, instead, got picked up by a bunch of monks and raised in a spartan way of life, both physically and emotionally. He didn't have a childhood and didn't have the same, normal, social interactions that we've had. So is it any surprise that Danny comes off like a kid and is really naive at times?
 
I think that you nailed it right on the head in your description of Danny as being emotionally arrested at age 10 - 12, that's what my wife and I thought and feel that's why Danny is being portrayed the way he is. People forget that even though he looks like a grown man he's, in many ways, still just a kid and not used to interacting with and as an adult much less the outside world. The plane crash was an event that had a huge emotional impact on Danny and instead of being able to grieve and adjust to his loss in a normal manner he, instead, got picked up by a bunch of monks and raised in a spartan way of life, both physically and emotionally. He didn't have a childhood and didn't have the same, normal, social interactions that we've had. So is it any surprise that Danny comes off like a kid and is really naive at times?

Yeah, Finn Jones is on record as basically being a LOT more focused on Danny's emotional reality and inner turmoil, in terms of being unable to get past the death of his parents and everything that happened thereafter. He's an orphan, and Jones himself is apparently adopted and had to confront some similar issues of anxiety.

All that aside, I hope they give him time to get in better shape and really learn the martial arts. It doesn't need to be flashy external styles either, but if he's gonna do internal stuff, he's gotta know that stuff really well.
 
I'm late to this one as it's the first of the Netflix series I haven't been able to binge watch. I'm only through episode 7 right now so I'm avoiding reading other comments until I finish it. But here are my current thoughts.

So far, it's one bad cliché after another - in terms of story, plot, characters, dialogue ... even the fighting is your standard kung-fu choreography. It also seems to be shot and edited by someone who isn't particularly great with filming fight scenes. I know the dated source material is problematic, but the same could have been said about Luke Cage and that series turned out wonderfully.

Each Netflix series draws its gravitas from its depiction of a distinct community in NY. The failings of Iron Fist (so far) seem to underlie an overall problem with the entertainment industry and its depiction of Asian culture. Hollywood doesn't understand Asians or Asian-American culture. I don't have a problem with Rand being white. He was always white in the comics when I read them. But I do feel as if the mythos here is no more elaborate nor surprising than something conceived by a 14 year old kid educated on kung-fu movies. There's nothing original here.

I don't fault Hollywood for being weak on Asian culture. It's incumbent for the Asian writing community to cultivate talent to bring this forth. Still, I think the show could have been better researched.

Another way they could have gone would be to simply own up and commit to the schlocky origins of the character and go over the top with the chop-sockiness. I didn't see this happening, either. The show feels desperate for credibility.

The one thing that gets me the most is how bad the fight choreography is. Well it's not actually bad but it's not spectacular. Of all the Netflix series this one should, at the end of the day, been the most invested in the fight choreography as well as the way its filmed. Daredevil, Luke Cage and even Jessica Jones had better fighting than Iron Fist (so far). At some parts even cool moves were filmed in such a way so you don't really see what was cool about them. The fight filming and editing was a complete failure. I could have forgiven everything else if this show simply had fantastic fighting.

So far I find nothing redeeming about this show. Dawson is wasted. Plot twists had no impact because I am not invested in any of the characters. It seems Finn Jones had a lot of learning when it comes to the physicality of the work. But to look convincing while doing kung-fu on film takes a lot of practice and he's maybe 55% there. Is he trying to channel Clint Eastwood in the way he's speaking? Please stop.

It annoys me that, as the major shareholder, he's "heroic" for doing completely irresponsible things. Admitting culpability for causing cancer by extrapolating cause and effect without looking at data or spending time investigating is simply stupid. Shutting down a plant and keeping everyone on salary is stupid. Restoring the dental plan because a secretary says so is stupid. Selling antibiotics at cost is stupid. What did he say? "It is wrong to profit on the misery of others?" (or something like that). They're not profiting off of "misery" - they're profiting off the "benefit." Sure, he's naive for being mentally arrested as a 12 year old kid, but the show isn't critical of that. And, in the midst of being "holier than thou," Danny has zero commitment to the board structure of the company. He's literally running it like a fascist dictator. Danny's off chasing The Hand while leaving the board to clean up his mess to preserve value in the stock. Stupid.

And, as Danny brings down the value of his company to shareholders and its employees, he buys himself a $200,000 Aston Martin. Go figure.
 
I don't know who to blame.. the actors, the directors, the editors, or just horrible American fight choreography. It's just crazy to me that they can give us something so well done as the stair scene in Daredevil and then absolutely bomb a show about martial arts.

I too was expecting some epic fight scene like DD's Hallway or Stairway to Hell - there was that scene in Episode 10 when Danny and Davos were at the Hand compound and trapped in that narrow hallway, about 3 feet wide or so, Hand soldiers coming from both sides... and I was thinking, man this is it! What a let down...

Also they should have reserved the "Grand Duel" from Episode 6 until the very last episode. Rather than have some unknown daughter held hostage, have Danny fight for someone he actually cares about, and maybe loose that person in the end (oh, they did that with Daredevil season 2). That would've set up Season 2 much better. Plus that Grand Duel, would've been homage to classic kung fu/martial art movies/Big Boss battles, Game of Death style.

Danny was a confusing character too... he seemed to have it together in the beginning, then got all "Anakin" crazy mid-way and to the end. I'd be surprised if this show gets a second season.
 
Here's a running commentary as I'm watching episode 8:

First something else occurs to me. What makes Danny Rand so special other than the fact that he fights? He's emotionally and psychologically fragile. His maturity is lacking. He's not particularly clever and Is actually quite gullible. He's certainly not responsible. He's calling shots but he's not much of a leader since he goes into hostile situations admittedly without any plan. Why am I supposed to be rooting for this man?

Is that really supposed to be "China"? Seriously? Can't they just give is a couple of establishing shots showing their arrival or at least walking through crowds instead of cutting straight to them driving a Hyundai into an LA backlot? Jeez.

Did that 97 lb girl really choke out that 175 lb guard with one arm around his neck? ... and chokes him out in two seconds? That's not even physiologically possible. Why is everyone armed with tai chi swords? That's not even a thing. And when the guards engage why doesn't anyone sound an alarm? Is this show even trying anymore?

Now the drunken fighter. My goodness everyone is so slow!

Episode 9. Another cliché is the captured enemy eroding at each member psychologically because they're naivé enough to engage with her and give honest replies with personal information.

The Dad back from the dead wandering the city reminds me of Peter Boyle in Young Frankenstein.

Episode 10:
Danny: "You're alive! ... I came to the penthouse. There was blood everywhere. I thought Gao .."
Harold: "Ahh ... not a chance. Hey listen.. we're working on a plan to get Rand back."
Danny: "I'll get there as soon as I can."

huh? Did someone actually write that?

Bakuto doesnt move like a fighter he does tai chi like a dancer.
 
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