Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Post-release)

It always amuses me the way people hate Midichlorians so much.

MC's totally failed to bother me. Finding an indirect way to measure something does not take the supernatural-ness out of it. In fact I would expect a civlization as advanced as SW to have come up with a few scientific tricks for dealing with the Force.
 
batguy said:
It always amuses me the way people hate Midichlorians so much.

MC's totally failed to bother me. Finding an indirect way to measure something does not take the supernatural-ness out of it. In fact I would expect a civlization as advanced as SW to have come up with a few scientific tricks for dealing with the Force.
Click to expand...

100% agree. Were they necessary include in the prequels? Not in the least. But did they ruin the mysticism of the Force presented in the OT. Not in the least. They're a representation of the level of one's ability to use the Force, they are not the Force itself (which most people who hate the mc's seem to think).
 
seelsa73 said:
100% agree. Were they necessary include in the prequels? Not in the least. But did they ruin the mysticism of the Force presented in the OT. Not in the least. They're a representation of the level of one's ability to use the Force, they are not the Force itself (which most people who hate the mc's seem to think).
Click to expand...

And there lies the problem. It first felt like everyone was able to use the Force on some level, by sheer training. But with the midichlorians that option was suddenly gone.

The invention of the Midichlorians also contradicts a fundamental Star Wars storytelling element of technology losing against faith and nature.
 
DaddyfromNaboo said:
And there lies the problem. It first felt like everyone was able to use the Force on some level, by sheer training. But with the midichlorians that option was suddenly gone.
Click to expand...
It was never explicitly stated or implied in the movies that any regular Joe could be a jedi if they had the fortitude to go through the training. That was pure fan invention (that and Lucas' original comments on the matter, but those don't count)
DaddyfromNaboo said:
The invention of the Midichlorians also contradicts a fundamental Star Wars storytelling element of technology losing against faith and nature.
Click to expand...
How? Midichlorians are nature, not technology.
 
seelsa73 said:
It was never explicitly stated or implied in the movies that any regular Joe could be a jedi if they had the fortitude to go through the training. That was pure fan invention (that and Lucas' original comments on the matter, but those don't count)
Click to expand...

I grew up with Star Wars and always believed that everyone could become a Jedi with proper training. It IMO was retconned with the PT since it had been "out in the wild" for more than twenty years. But that is the least of the problems with the introduction of the Midichlorians.

How? Midichlorians are nature, not technology.
Click to expand...

Yes, but by introducting the Midichlorians "the Force" was IMO degraded to exactly that, "just" a "fundamental force", although in the Star Wars universe, but still. Measureable by technology.
In the OT it was all about intuition, following your feelings. Vader feels that the Force is strong in Luke. Obi-Wan feels the disturbance in the Force. Luke switches the targeting computer off, just trusting his feelings.
And now, in the PT, two of the most talented Jedi need a blood sample and a measuring device to find out how force-sensitive young Anni is? And after that lil´ Anni is tested with methods that Pete Venkman may have invented? Come on, how disappointing was that?
 
JBLAKE said:
Unable to find the Episode 8 thread but
Suppose that giant creature on Luke's Island is a Bendu? Just a thought with Star Wars Rebels showing us what a Bendu looks like and all. Just sayin.
Click to expand...

i think people are overing thinking it, its probably just some large prop alien to be shown in the back ground. i sure would like something more from it, but I'm willing to bet its just a common back ground creature
 
DaddyfromNaboo said:
I grew up with Star Wars and always believed that everyone could become a Jedi with proper training. It IMO was retconned with the PT since it had been "out in the wild" for more than twenty years. But that is the least of the problems with the introduction of the Midichlorians.
Click to expand...
While I'm not advocating midichlorians at all. There is a tell or two that the Force might be something that's beyond just "proper training."

"The Force is strong with this one" - suggests that it's not a learned thing, that the "Force" is something that's stronger in some than others.

"Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other, and I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe that there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. 'Cause no mystical energy field controls *my* destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense. "

Of course, there are a few OT bits that are a little less clear...

"The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together."
 
astroboy said:
And here we are...
https://youtu.be/miVRaoR_8xQ


Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I'm sorry i can't get past 5 minutes of that guys voice... shoot me

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Laspector said:
What alien was there on Luke's island? I don't remember that.
Click to expand...

this was on makingstarwars.com awhile ago, i found it easier to search on youtube. i just randomly found a video with it, i dont believe its snoke, if you go to 1:00 it shows the only picture we have seen of it so far, of course SPOILER WARNING


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLBgOE5TAJM
 
I've been wondering about Luke's lightsaber in this movie. I have a couple of ponderings (I won't call them theories--just random thoughts) about it. I haven't read any new novels or even TFA novel, so if any of this is already discredited, please excuse me. From here on, I am just going to call it the ALL (Annikin/Luke/Lightsaber).

First off: Do we know for a confirmed fact that this is indeed the ALL? I've just always assumed it was, but hear me out. So, the original ALL belongs to Annikin, Obi Wan picks it up on Mustafar, keeps it and passes it on the Luke, who loses it on Bespin, right? In TFA it shows back up in Maz's little box. Kylo says "That lightsaber belongs to me!" Why? If Maz had it this whole time, how would he even know whose it was? It's dark when Finn pulls it out, yet in an instant Kylo recognizes it. How? Maybe he saw it in a picture somewhere? Just the Force? Why does he think it belongs to him? Because it was Luke's or because it was Annikin's?...or perhaps it really was his all along....

I have a couple ponderings on this:
1) Maybe Maz didn't have the ALL during all this time. Maybe somehow, someway Luke recovered it and actually gave it to Ben Solo when he was training him. Maybe Kylo is the one who actually lost it again, for it later to end up with Maz.
2) Maybe this actually isn't the ALL. Maybe Luke just built another one like it, maybe in honor of his lost Dad, and then gave it to Ben as he was training him. Again, only for it to be lost (or taken from him) and then it ended up with Maz.

I'm just wondering how Kylo recognizes it so fast and believes that it belongs to him.

What do you think?
 
You're overthinking it. If the storytellers have all the characters act like it's the real deal, it's the real deal.

As for Kylo's entitlement, well, that's Kylo, isn't it?
 
Laspector said:
I've been wondering about Luke's lightsaber in this movie. I have a couple of ponderings (I won't call them theories--just random thoughts) about it. I haven't read any new novels or even TFA novel, so if any of this is already discredited, please excuse me. From here on, I am just going to call it the ALL (Annikin/Luke/Lightsaber).

First off: Do we know for a confirmed fact that this is indeed the ALL? I've just always assumed it was, but hear me out. So, the original ALL belongs to Annikin, Obi Wan picks it up on Mustafar, keeps it and passes it on the Luke, who loses it on Bespin, right? In TFA it shows back up in Maz's little box. Kylo says "That lightsaber belongs to me!" Why? If Maz had it this whole time, how would he even know whose it was? It's dark when Finn pulls it out, yet in an instant Kylo recognizes it. How? Maybe he saw it in a picture somewhere? Just the Force? Why does he think it belongs to him? Because it was Luke's or because it was Annikin's?...or perhaps it really was his all along....

I have a couple ponderings on this:
1) Maybe Maz didn't have the ALL during all this time. Maybe somehow, someway Luke recovered it and actually gave it to Ben Solo when he was training him. Maybe Kylo is the one who actually lost it again, for it later to end up with Maz.
2) Maybe this actually isn't the ALL. Maybe Luke just built another one like it, maybe in honor of his lost Dad, and then gave it to Ben as he was training him. Again, only for it to be lost (or taken from him) and then it ended up with Maz.

I'm just wondering how Kylo recognizes it so fast and believes that it belongs to him.

What do you think?
Click to expand...


I believe "that lightsaber, it belongs to me" scene was left in the final cut which made things confusing. We now know the scene with the Knights of ren has changed meaning. At first we were told it was the Jedi academy students. And I strongly believe it's true I have other points to back it up. So somewhere down the line they decided to change it so the academy students turned into members of a clan.

If if you look kylo ren is holding something in his left hand, it looks like Luke's lightsaber. Many have speculated it's Luke's Rotj lightsaber. But if you hold the graflex at the right angle you can get a few rings of silver that look like the rings on the Rotj saber. Which is what everyone is pointing out

I strongly believe kylo stole the lightsaber from the academy in that scene. Some where down the line it was stolen back and given to Maz. There is a lot of continuity issues when it comes to the whole graflex story in TFA. Piecing all the rumors, and deleted/changed scenes together this is a theory I came up with

-kylo storms the academy
-kylo slaughters students
-kylo steals the graflex because it was his grand fathers
(maybe he steals the helmet too, remember early on we heard rumors kylo was collecting sith artifacts)

-some where the graflex is stolen or lost from kylo
-graflex ends up hidden with Maz
- when Finn ignites the graflex in front of kylo kylo recognizes it as his grand fathers " that lightsaber, it belongs to me!!"

this is a theory I pieced together and seriously think was on the story table at one time... Why things changed so much I don't know... I sure wish it went this way though

- - - Updated - - -

here is the scene I'm referring too. even in this picture i can see bunny ears
kV8x5ZI.jpg
 
halliwax said:
I believe "that lightsaber, it belongs to me" scene was left in the final cut which made things confusing. We now know the scene with the Knights of ren has changed meaning. At first we were told it was the Jedi academy students. And I strongly believe it's true I have other points to back it up. So somewhere down the line they decided to change it so the academy students turned into members of a clan.

If if you look kylo ren is holding something in his left hand, it looks like Luke's lightsaber. Many have speculated it's Luke's Rotj lightsaber. But if you hold the graflex at the right angle you can get a few rings of silver that look like the rings on the Rotj saber. Which is what everyone is pointing out

I strongly believe kylo stole the lightsaber from the academy in that scene. Some where down the line it was stolen back and given to Maz. There is a lot of continuity issues when it comes to the whole graflex story in TFA. Piecing all the rumors, and deleted/changed scenes together this is a theory I came up with

-kylo storms the academy
-kylo slaughters students
-kylo steals the graflex because it was his grand fathers
(maybe he steals the helmet too, remember early on we heard rumors kylo was collecting sith artifacts)

-some where the graflex is stolen or lost from kylo
-graflex ends up hidden with Maz
- when Finn ignites the graflex in front of kylo kylo recognizes it as his grand fathers " that lightsaber, it belongs to me!!"

this is a theory I pieced together and seriously think was on the story table at one time... Why things changed so much I don't know... I sure wish it went this way though

- - - Updated - - -

here is the scene I'm referring too. even in this picture i can see bunny ears
http://i.imgur.com/kV8x5ZI.jpg
Click to expand...


Hmmmm....

I'm inclined to agree with all you've written here. My only nagging question is the length of time between this scene and when Maz acquired it. I'll have to go back and watch to see if any mention whatsoever is made of how long she's had it.

Also, one of the discarded scenes we heard about through 'rumours" was that originally it fell from the sky, someone ignited it and caught some grass on fire, and then it was brought somehow to Maz. Obviously that didn't make it into the film, but have they changed ALL of the story that went with this scene?
 
Near as I know, Luke never had it after Bespin. His nephew Ben was a student with him until only five or six years before TFA. The lightsaber had followed its own -- so far unclarified -- path in that time. Up until then, Ben hadn't been told the full story about his grandfather. Leia had been planning on telling him when he was "a bit older" (which always seems to be "not yet"). Her political enemies found out and aired her dirty laundry on the floor of the senate. Heck of a way for Ben to find out. He'd already had abandonment issues due to his parents' rocky marriage and feeling foisted off on his uncle. Snoke was able to take advantage of all of that.

We don't know the specifics as of yet, but Snoke found/organized/revived the Knights of Ren, and made the newly-turned Ben their leader. Ben, now Kylo, became obsessed with hunting down relics of his grandfather. We saw the helmet retrieved from Endor. Vader's lightsaber is also floating around out there somewhere. And that scene in the rain is the Knights of Ren, led by Kylo, tracking a lightsaber to whatever planet that was. I would not be surprised if that turned out to be Vader's lightsaber he got from the Clan, and not Anakin's. It is not, however, the recently-turned Ben destroying Luke's academy. The landscape is entirely different, never min the rain.

So far, we don't know if Maz has or has not had Anakin's lightsaber in her basement for more than five years. It might be that Kylo found it during his collecting and lost it again and it ended up there... It might be that he'd been looking for it and it had been laying there ever since a janitor fleeing Imperial occupation of Cloud City swapped it for a drink and passage thirty-two years before. *shrug* I have a feeling we'll find out. But I don't think those are repurposed scenes that show things form earlier drafts of the script. I feel those scenes are exactly what the filmmakers say they are, and any other interpretation is what fans speculated after seeing them in the trailers, fed by the rumors floating around.

--Jonah
 
Inquisitor Peregrinus said:
Near as I know, Luke never had it after Bespin. His nephew Ben was a student with him until only five or six years before TFA. The lightsaber had followed its own -- so far unclarified -- path in that time. Up until then, Ben hadn't been told the full story about his grandfather. Leia had been planning on telling him when he was "a bit older" (which always seems to be "not yet"). Her political enemies found out and aired her dirty laundry on the floor of the senate. Heck of a way for Ben to find out. He'd already had abandonment issues due to his parents' rocky marriage and feeling foisted off on his uncle. Snoke was able to take advantage of all of that.

We don't know the specifics as of yet, but Snoke found/organized/revived the Knights of Ren, and made the newly-turned Ben their leader. Ben, now Kylo, became obsessed with hunting down relics of his grandfather. We saw the helmet retrieved from Endor. Vader's lightsaber is also floating around out there somewhere. And that scene in the rain is the Knights of Ren, led by Kylo, tracking a lightsaber to whatever planet that was. I would not be surprised if that turned out to be Vader's lightsaber he got from the Clan, and not Anakin's. It is not, however, the recently-turned Ben destroying Luke's academy. The landscape is entirely different, never min the rain.

So far, we don't know if Maz has or has not had Anakin's lightsaber in her basement for more than five years. It might be that Kylo found it during his collecting and lost it again and it ended up there... It might be that he'd been looking for it and it had been laying there ever since a janitor fleeing Imperial occupation of Cloud City swapped it for a drink and passage thirty-two years before. *shrug* I have a feeling we'll find out. But I don't think those are repurposed scenes that show things form earlier drafts of the script. I feel those scenes are exactly what the filmmakers say they are, and any other interpretation is what fans speculated after seeing them in the trailers, fed by the rumors floating around.

--Jonah
Click to expand...

I think the entire plot point of Kylo and the Knights getting the saber has been entirely abandoned. I agree the rain scene was never meant to be the Jedi Academy for all the reasons you said and also those bodies don't look like Jedi Palawan, especially the guy Kylo scewers. So the disposition of the saber, which is the Anakin/Luke saber, is unknown except Maz had it in her basement and it's "a story for another time." as per the film. The "that belongs to me" was a left over from the edited out parts you discussed and they just didn't feel that line of dialogue needed to be cut as it possible Kylo would be familiar with all the lore surrounding his grandfather.
 
I've never understood why we treated that thing like excaliber. We know that anakin went through several lightsabers. And it was never a big moment when a lightsaber was lost.

Sure, it was a big deal when obi wan gave anakin's to luke, but only in the same way my dad's fishing pole would mean something to me after he died.

And luke certainly didn't have any visions when he touched it

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
 
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