Thor is a woman

I think the fact that people care so much and not in the useful ways is part of the problem.

I find BOTH changes to be ridiculous, not because of the changes themselves but because of the fact that they're being marketed as if we should suddenly care more about the characters because of the changes. It feels as if they're trying to make the character more relevant by a physical change rather than by making the storylines better and more interesting to the audience they want to attract.

Can't argue with that.

Also, to all the men who are up in arms about the meme and what it says, please stop. As a female cosplayer, there are actual REAL issues that impact my life and the way that me partaking in this hobby is seen by others outside of it. The meme is not part of the problem, the root of the problem is far more complex than this and if we're going to talk about it, we need to devote a thread to it and not hijack this one.

Not sure which problem you're alluding to specifically (since you didn't mention it by name). We may be talking about a different specific root problem. Regardless, I've said my peace on the subject, and further explanation of my position isn't going to sway anyone one way or the other. They agree/care, or they don't. But you're right that the thread here probably isn't the right one for further discussion on this point. If you want to PM me and discuss this further, I'd be happy to, though. I'm curious as to your thoughts on this.
 
I find BOTH changes to be ridiculous, not because of the changes themselves but because of the fact that they're being marketed as if we should suddenly care more about the characters because of the changes.

Ok. Thor is now a woman. How would you market that? If you say that changing Thor into a woman isn't what bothers you, what is the correct way to market it? I'm not in the comics industry, but I know enough about it that they change things all the time. Some subtle, some drastic and some downright ridiculous. These new changes to Thor and Captain America don't even register on my level of ridiculous compared to what Spiderman and Wonder Woman had to go through.

The Dude said:
Oh..and as I mentoned in the other thread...enough with changing them into woman or black superheroes. We need an Hispanic one!

Try the new Ms. Marvel. The title went from a Caucasian American woman to a little Muslim American girl.
 
Marvel does things like this every few years to gauge public reaction before they transition it into a media outlet, such as film or television.

That's why we saw the guardians of the galaxy in both ultimate spider-man and Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes, that's why we see Nova, Luke Cage and Iron fist in Ultimate Spider Man, to gauge fan reactions and to make kids familiar with the characters from a merchandising standpoint. And look, now guardians has a movie, and Luke and iron fist a TV show Netflix.

In this particular case, of the Captain America change and the Thor change can be looked at like this:

RDJ, Evans, and Hemsworth will not be around forever.

Anthony Mackies portrayal of Sam Wilson in the Winter Soldier garnered such positive responses from fans and critics alike, not to mention that he already has a pretty impressive repertoire of films behind him, and he is generally well known yet still waiting for that huge breakout role. It is not surprising that Marvel is curious to see if fans would react to him in a leading role as Captain America. So let's put it in the comics, see how fans react, and in 12 months when we put Steve Rogers back behind the shield will have plenty of time to decide what to do after Avengers 3 and Captain America 3.

In the case of Thor, Marvel has received some criticism about only having one strong female character (in film) in Black Widow. However, that character is not strong enough to carry a film on the scale of the other films that have proceeded so far in the MCU. So Marvel looks for a bigger character. Thors stories in recent comics have been interesting, but are not topping any charts. Having a woman pick up that Mjolnir is not only interesting, but it also allows Marvel to gauge fan reactions to having a big gun in the spotlight that is a woman.

You have to realize, at this point, Marvel is going to use their comics as an outlet to test out new ideas before they could possibly transition into film.

The biggest hurdle in all of this, is going to be getting over fans who have knee jerk reactions that this is a terrible idea. At some point obviously they are going to return to the status quo. Superman is no longer dead, Robin is no longer Batman, Doctor Octopus is no longer Spiderman, Steve Rogers has died once, us agent became captain america at one point, Thor died once and was replaced once, iron man died, came back, became evil, and was killed by a version of himself from the past. . . And then came back.

I am actually very interested to see where these comics go, and it's unfortunate that people immediately shut down when they see announcementd likes this, because usually the resulting stories are excellent...






...except for clones.
 
Ok. Thor is now a woman. How would you market that? If you say that changing Thor into a woman isn't what bothers you, what is the correct way to market it? I'm not in the comics industry, but I know enough about it that they change things all the time. Some subtle, some drastic and some downright ridiculous. These new changes to Thor and Captain America don't even register on my level of ridiculous compared to what Spiderman and Wonder Woman had to go through.



Try the new Ms. Marvel. The title went from a Caucasian American woman to a little Muslim American girl.

im more excited for unworthy thor. now that hes lost mjolnir thor is gonna wield jarnbjorn which is his badass axe. i doubt female thor will actually be in the avengers

- - - Updated - - -

Ok. Thor is now a woman. How would you market that? If you say that changing Thor into a woman isn't what bothers you, what is the correct way to market it? I'm not in the comics industry, but I know enough about it that they change things all the time. Some subtle, some drastic and some downright ridiculous. These new changes to Thor and Captain America don't even register on my level of ridiculous compared to what Spiderman and Wonder Woman had to go through.



Try the new Ms. Marvel. The title went from a Caucasian American woman to a little Muslim American girl.

im more excited for unworthy thor. now that hes lost mjolnir thor is gonna wield jarnbjorn which is his badass axe. i doubt female thor will actually be in the avengers
 
The bottom line for me is: I don't care.

I dislike the trend of people feeling they can throw canon into the incinerator - especially for the sake of marketing/profit. And before you say it - "if I don't like it, I don't need to support it" - well, I don't. I've no intention of spending money on these kind of things. I just feel sorry for those kids and their parents that get caught in this manipulation trap.

This has been a lively thread though -
 
Seriously... Since when were these classic characters being brought up as politically incorrect? These heroes have stood the test of time for years and as far as I know EVERYONE loves them.

No matter the skin color or sex, I have seen people of all types who LOVE these characters the way they have always been. Sure at some point people age and die off with someone to possibly take over the mantle (OR not at all and just have a new character emerge in their place entirely). I just don't think they should be doing something drastic that no one asked for. I know it's all to get people talking and create buzz for marketing, which is definitely working in terms of talk. I'm not so sure it will translate to great sales. If anything I think people will stop reading maybe.

I hope they don't bring this crap into the movies.
 
I'll probably buy the first issue, bag and board it and stash it away for 40 years. This much controversy has got to add some value over the years ;)
 
Re: Thor has been transgendered

Hasn't Mjolnir transformed other beings into Thor before? I vaguely recall some kind of alien picking up the hammer and transforming into Thor. Sounds like more of the same. If I still regularly bought comics I'd probably pick this up.

Beta Ray Bill! He didn't transform into Thor, but he was considered worthy of wielding Mjolnir and needed her to save his people. Thor took him to the magical dwarves who originally forged Mjolnir and they agreed to make Bill a suit of his own that resembles Thor's as well as a hammer of his own. (Sorry if this was pointed out already. I'm at work and admit I'm not going to flip through and read even 3 pages of comments)

There's been Thor Girl before. I don't really see this as different. I doubt it will have any impact on the MCU, it's just a new comic book series, people. Sadly, as much as I like the idea, I doubt it'll survive long anyway. Female heroes who get their own covers often don't do well in the long run, excluding Wonder Woman.
 
Glad to see the thread title has been changed. As far as I can see, though, it's still technically inaccurate... Since the original Asgardian-hammer-wielder is still around (albeit, hammer-less), and the mantle/name/weapon has passed to another - wouldn't it be more correct to say that 'A woman is now Thor'?
So I guess the real issue is are people are not reading enough and assuming they've changed the character into a woman, or are they angry that someone else is carrying the hammer (and extra-angry that it happens to be a woman)?
Was there any particular reason one of the female Asgardians couldn't take over from Thor?
 
Remember the days when, if you wanted a new character you would make a new new character? Pepperidge farms remembers.


Honestly, a female Thor doesn't bother me. If anything it might be an improvement for me. Not as much of an improvement as making a new Thor-like character would be...like a Valkyrie...but even so...

The real problem is that with decisions like this it just SCREAMS an image of yellow tie wearing executives sitting in a boardroom creating "art" based on spreadsheets and focus group studies. More and more I think the Simpsons "Poochie" episode was not a parody, it was an understatement.


I also think that if you're trying to create a strong female role model, a good first step would be putting the project in the hands of someone who doesn't think that there's no such thing and that the closest you can come is by drawing boobs on a man.
 
I'll probably buy the first issue, bag and board it and stash it away for 40 years. This much controversy has got to add some value over the years ;)

You should really go searching for Larry's old post about running his shop and giving people, like, $1.50 for some bagged, boarded, stashed-away-for-40-years comic, or paying them by the pound. I wouldn't count on pretty much any comics really being that valuable in the future, other than the ones that already are.

Marvel does things like this every few years to gauge public reaction before they transition it into a media outlet, such as film or television.

That's why we saw the guardians of the galaxy in both ultimate spider-man and Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes, that's why we see Nova, Luke Cage and Iron fist in Ultimate Spider Man, to gauge fan reactions and to make kids familiar with the characters from a merchandising standpoint. And look, now guardians has a movie, and Luke and iron fist a TV show Netflix.

In this particular case, of the Captain America change and the Thor change can be looked at like this:

RDJ, Evans, and Hemsworth will not be around forever.

Anthony Mackies portrayal of Sam Wilson in the Winter Soldier garnered such positive responses from fans and critics alike, not to mention that he already has a pretty impressive repertoire of films behind him, and he is generally well known yet still waiting for that huge breakout role. It is not surprising that Marvel is curious to see if fans would react to him in a leading role as Captain America. So let's put it in the comics, see how fans react, and in 12 months when we put Steve Rogers back behind the shield will have plenty of time to decide what to do after Avengers 3 and Captain America 3.

In the case of Thor, Marvel has received some criticism about only having one strong female character (in film) in Black Widow. However, that character is not strong enough to carry a film on the scale of the other films that have proceeded so far in the MCU. So Marvel looks for a bigger character. Thors stories in recent comics have been interesting, but are not topping any charts. Having a woman pick up that Mjolnir is not only interesting, but it also allows Marvel to gauge fan reactions to having a big gun in the spotlight that is a woman.

You have to realize, at this point, Marvel is going to use their comics as an outlet to test out new ideas before they could possibly transition into film.

The biggest hurdle in all of this, is going to be getting over fans who have knee jerk reactions that this is a terrible idea. At some point obviously they are going to return to the status quo. Superman is no longer dead, Robin is no longer Batman, Doctor Octopus is no longer Spiderman, Steve Rogers has died once, us agent became captain america at one point, Thor died once and was replaced once, iron man died, came back, became evil, and was killed by a version of himself from the past. . . And then came back.

I am actually very interested to see where these comics go, and it's unfortunate that people immediately shut down when they see announcementd likes this, because usually the resulting stories are excellent...






...except for clones.

Yeah, I get that. And it makes sense from the perspective of films and marketing and all. But I think that's the problem a lot of people have with it. It's ALL just marketing, rather than storytelling. This is not to say that Marvel can't tell solid stories. Their movie franchise has been solid. But I can't help but wonder if that's in spite of the marketing aspect of all of it, rather than because of it. Like, the stories are solid not because they market-tested this or that idea, but in spite of it.
 
The real problem is that with decisions like this it just SCREAMS an image of yellow tie wearing executives sitting in a boardroom creating "art" based on spreadsheets and focus group studies. More and more I think the Simpsons "Poochie" episode was not a parody, it was an understatement.

They should give Thor a nice shmear of surfer...and rastafi her by 10% ;)
 
Remember the days when, if you wanted a new character you would make a new new character? Pepperidge farms remembers.


Honestly, a female Thor doesn't bother me. If anything it might be an improvement for me. Not as much of an improvement as making a new Thor-like character would be...like a Valkyrie...but even so...

The real problem is that with decisions like this it just SCREAMS an image of yellow tie wearing executives sitting in a boardroom creating "art" based on spreadsheets and focus group studies. More and more I think the Simpsons "Poochie" episode was not a parody, it was an understatement.


I also think that if you're trying to create a strong female role model, a good first step would be putting the project in the hands of someone who doesn't think that there's no such thing and that the closest you can come is by drawing boobs on a man.

This pretty much says most of what I was saying.

As far as how it's being marketed, it's clear they are banking on it being a change to a FEMALE character and not a new PERSON that is the basis of it all, and THAT is what strikes me as problematic. Gender gaps are a real thing in this day and age. I'm not trying to wave a feminism flag (mostly because the term 'feminist' has such a negative association lately and brings to mind visions of militant anti-men stereotypes) but I feel like maybe one day it won't matter so much what gender a character is, the focus of the change from one character to another will be on the change from one character to another and not one gender to another.

Sure, there have been huge strides made in portrayal of women, from the sexy sidekick in a spandex bodysuit with gravity-defying breasts, but the reality is that it still exists on many levels. Otherwise, this might not have been 'news': http://io9.com/batgirls-new-uniform-may-be-the-best-damn-superheroine-1603247249
 
Remember the days when, if you wanted a new character you would make a new new character? Pepperidge farms remembers.

What exactly does Thor being a woman or Captain America being black have to do with the idea that all of a sudden Marvel is no longer interested in creating new characters? Forget interpretation. Who in the higher ups is saying that? All Marvel is doing is saying that there will be a Thor who is a woman and a Captain America who will be black. We're going to get new characters and we're going to get new interpretations of established characters. Need I mention Kamala Khan again?
 
Re: Thor has been transgendered

"Thor the God of Thunder" is not just a character that some comic book writer thought up. It is an adaptation of a male god in a real-world religion, albeit practically without followers for nine hundred years. Why don't they redefine *****, Buddha and Zoroaster as women while they're at it ... :facepalm

Well, not quite...

nl33dec1972a.gif
 
Let the classic characters actually age and die.
Why do we have to "replace" them? Adding new characters or old characters into a new setting could breathe new life into Marvel.
Part of the fun is learning about each character's history and personality. And then throw them into the Avengers (or another group/world) and watch them interact.

Also, with Tony Stark's new armor that was also announced, I have a feeling it may not be the Tony Stark we know underneath.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
 
Still haven't seen why real-Thor (because he was born and given that name afterall) has supposedly became unworthy of the hammer.
 
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