Second Doctor's Sonic Screwdriver

Ok, I need to make one of these...... what a great way to start a sonic screwdriver collection.

Jack T Chance said:

Well, for starters, the party elsewhere on the interwebz not only has an original penlight, same as was used by Patrick Troughton, but they also have the means and possibly the intent to produce a run of duplicates for those that wish to purchase one. The gentlemanly thing to do would have been to contact said individual to make sure they were okay with someone else producing a run, as NTBBCPD is clearly doing. I see no reason why he would need to make so many of the things just for personal use!

But never mind, it's an ethical question, the point of which is clearly not understood by everyone. :unsure

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Actually Jack, on Page three I posted the original pic in package of the penlight model used by Troughton in that I had found doing research that I posted that led to Mooneye finding the penlight that there may be a chance of being reproduced as a replica. Not that I'm looking for credit, I'm looking for one of the lights in general, lol. I just have to wonder about how important credit for research is over just finding the item and getting the info out there.

That aside, just because someone plans on making a run of replica of a prop doesn't mean someone else can't als do a run at the same time of their version.

[/INDENT]

Jack T Chance said:

So, let me ask you this...

Are you EVER going to give credit where credit's due, and acknowledge whose research led to you being able to make your replicas? Or are you just going to keep dissing them because you feel like it's your gods-given right to copy something you see online without acknowledging the source of the info?!?

Speaking only for myself, and I am unanimous in this, I know of 2 people that are directly responsible for providing this information to the fans: Organic Mechanic who shared a picture of one New In Package in this very thread, and someone elsewhere on the interwebz. Considering the importance of this find, they deserve credit where credit's due.

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Oh no you didn't….

Sure wish I could do the head roll thing that goes with that phrase..

You want-a talk about dissing someone.

I always thanks those who help; I even thanked the guy we can’t name for correcting JNT on the source of the Romana’s Sonic.

I thanked Walmart for selling those penlights so cheap...and it was Straker back in post #75, (not OM) that posted the penlight in the original package, so thank-you Straker for that.

Where do you get off calling me out when you post a picture from a banned member and lie about knowing the source?

You said you didn’t know the name of the person that posted it, so was I suppose to thank you? Were you trying to take the credit for this other person’s work?

That’s two people that you dissed, are we even? Wait , you dissed me with your post and now I’m dissing you. EVEN!

The RPF is built on sharing information, so that others can make their own replicas. So if I can show others how to make one for under $10 I'm a villain?


I don’t even know why I’m wasting my time with you.

You stated back in post 141


Well, I not going to name names either but this describes the same person who recently wrote:


Nice coming from someone who gets access to the original props and then makes copies for sale and slags the original creators.

I don’t have a problem with the person that we are not allowed to name, but he has a problem with me or anyone else that tries to be creative and make something by themselves.

I’m sure he and his buddies will all have a great big laugh at my expense on his twitter feed or I might even get an entry in his blog. Hey, I'm Fat and I have a beard! One day it will all get old and all his "fans" will be gone.

I’ve always said the work he does is fantastic, and if I add some plastic to a couple of penlight to give to a few friends. I very much doubt it will cut into his sales of an exact replica made from an original item.

If I had the access to the originals that he has, and didn't care about laws or the rights of others, then all my replicas would be perfect too.

I do not wish you or anyone ill will,
Have a nice day.

Okay, the OM/Straker mix-up was some kind of brain fart, I stand corrected and I've made the appropriate edit.

As for the rest, I'm just gonna drop it so as not to derail the thread further.

Back to the main topic, I do wonder how rare the original penlight is? I've been tempted to hit some antique stores and thrift stores in my area, but I'm starting to wonder if the odds of success are too low to be worth the "treasure hunt", as it were. *shrugs*

Jack T Chance said:

Okay, the OM/Straker mix-up was some kind of brain fart, I stand corrected and I've made the appropriate edit.

As for the rest, I'm just gonna drop it so as not to derail the thread further.

Back to the main topic, I do wonder how rare the original penlight is? I've been tempted to hit some antique stores and thrift stores in my area, but I'm starting to wonder if the odds of success are too low to be worth the "treasure hunt", as it were. *shrugs*

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Well, like I said, I'm not worried about credit. I just want to get one for myself, whether that be from a run of replicas made by the guy off site that has that original in hand or from an original myself.

As for how rare...rare. Like RAAAARE. At least from where I'm standing anyway. The UK seems to be the place to find them but apparently it's not an antiques stoe sort of thing. More like a yard sale or car boot sale sort of thing. I didn't even see the listing for the one taken next to that 11th Doctor's replica so I'm going to assume that many UK sellers don't have the worldwide shipping option added limiting my searches even more. Considering how long ago I posted that pic until now and considering I've been searching that entire time and found nothing BUT that pic I'll say that it's pretty hard to find.

Straker said:

Well, like I said, I'm not worried about credit. I just want to get one for myself, whether that be from a run of replicas made by the guy off site that has that original in hand or from an original myself.

As for how rare...rare. Like RAAAARE. At least from where I'm standing anyway. The UK seems to be the place to find them but apparently it's not an antiques stoe sort of thing. More like a yard sale or car boot sale sort of thing. I didn't even see the listing for the one taken next to that 11th Doctor's replica so I'm going to assume that many UK sellers don't have the worldwide shipping option added limiting my searches even more. Considering how long ago I posted that pic until now and considering I've been searching that entire time and found nothing BUT that pic I'll say that it's pretty hard to find.

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That's what I don't get. It seems that in those days, several companies all offered that same model of penlight because they shared the patent(s) with each other so they could all offer it. I know at least 2 of the names it would have been branded with, Varta, and Eveready, because back in those days, those 2 companies shared the patents with each other. There may be other names that were used as well, but I've yet to discover what they would be.

So the real question becomes, what is up in the UK that these are ONLY really found at "car boot" sales? Why wouldn't they be sold in thrift stores/second-hand shops, pawn shops, or antique stores? Does the UK simply not have many of those shops these days (seems highly unlikely if you watch Antiques Roadshow)? Are they simply too picky about what they'll stock? Do people in the UK simply place NO value on antique "torches" (as they insist on calling them)? :confused

As for eBay, what's really baffling to me is that I see other penlights on there which are equally rare, if not more so, with some dating back at least as early as World War 2! And yet, one from the 1960s, made by large, well-known manufacturers, which they presumably made a ton of, is nearly impossible to find! :facepalm

The worst part for me is that I'm simply NOT a morning person and I work on Saturday and Sunday, so one of the best places to check, the local flea markets, which open up at Oh-Dark-Thirty in the morning on the weekends, are going to end up being very hard for me to get to. :unsure

limey you keep away from the Internet for a few days and it all happens *

As the owner of the aforementioned Pen Torch, I Just wanted to chip in here re a few things...

Credit & acknowledgements & where we are with this Pen torch/Sonic so there can be no mistakes.

Straker did all the leg work on this for quite a number of years eventually posting a picture of one here on the forum still in its original packaging, as previously mentioned. Through conversations with Straker, this prompted me to conduct my own hunt here in the UK. I contacted Frazer Hines, who informed me that the Penlight Pat used had a blue end cap, (with no prompting of colour from me). Bingo we had a match! I found & bought the penlight we are all talking about, a month ago on ebay, i then passed it on to our friend Charlie Tango, who also has knowledge of this Penlight. He took it apart & examined it, & confirmed the age/make, against the info that he had about the original.*

So all credit & respect to those that helped me in my purchase to date. *Any future credits & acknowledgment about my particular copy will be due to the last person on the credit roll call, something that you all can appreciate I cannot talk about here.

I hope you can appreciate the sensitivity of this part of the post, but as the information of its journey is of interest to all who are collectors of the Sonic Screwdriver in its many forms I thought the best thing to do was mention all those involved.

The Hunt
As for finding one of these chaps, it's very tricky. I can honestly say I've looked online nearly every week since Strakers original post. There is no reference picture of it on any torchlight site bar the one Straker found. Charity shops here in the UK are boot allowed to stock electrical goods & as such some places won't even take torches flash lights to 'cover themselves'. So car boots are the only way they will be found. Not only that, but you do have a lot of avid collect here regarding junk. So a torch would be on the list for those who collect the weird & wonderful!

Hope that helps?*

Excellent post Mooneye, thanks. Reps if I could.

The picture in my earlier post has been removed per mooneye63's request, sorry folks.

And crikey, there's a bloody awful lot of penlights on eBay, but not ONE of the correct model after looking at literally THOUSANDS of listings!

I HAVE found a couple modern-day models that are the closest we're likely to find stocked in shops brand-new, and they're even silver, requiring no stripping of the finish! I may order one or 2 of them as placeholders in my collection until such time as there's a run of accurate reproductions of the original penlight model, as I haven't the patience to search eBay as often as I'd need to in order to track down the Real McCoy. :unsure

Thanks Jack,

And with much thought, until further notice could I please ask that no comparison prop build photos of builds include my torch.

Many thanks

mooneye63 said:

limey you keep away from the Internet for a few days and it all happens *

As the owner of the aforementioned Pen Torch, I Just wanted to chip in here re a few things...

Credit & acknowledgements & where we are with this Pen torch/Sonic so there can be no mistakes.

Straker did all the leg work on this for quite a number of years eventually posting a picture of one here on the forum still in its original packaging, as previously mentioned. Through conversations with Straker, this prompted me to conduct my own hunt here in the UK. I contacted Frazer Hines, who informed me that the Penlight Pat used had a blue end cap, (with no prompting of colour from me). Bingo we had a match! I found & bought the penlight we are all talking about, a month ago on ebay, i then passed it on to our friend Charlie Tango, who also has knowledge of this Penlight. He took it apart & examined it, & confirmed the age/make, against the info that he had about the original.*

So all credit & respect to those that helped me in my purchase to date. *Any future credits & acknowledgment about my particular copy will be due to the last person on the credit roll call, something that you all can appreciate I cannot talk about here.

I hope you can appreciate the sensitivity of this part of the post, but as the information of its journey is of interest to all who are collectors of the Sonic Screwdriver in its many forms I thought the best thing to do was mention all those involved.

The Hunt
As for finding one of these chaps, it's very tricky. I can honestly say I've looked online nearly every week since Strakers original post. There is no reference picture of it on any torchlight site bar the one Straker found. Charity shops here in the UK are boot allowed to stock electrical goods & as such some places won't even take torches flash lights to 'cover themselves'. So car boots are the only way they will be found. Not only that, but you do have a lot of avid collect here regarding junk. So a torch would be on the list for those who collect the weird & wonderful!

Hope that helps?*

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Hey Mooneye, thanks for the tip of the hat. I think we all really contributed to the search in some way here and there. I'm just glad I could get that picture and info to you. Still, as much as that acknowledgement means to me...I just want the dang light XD

Hopefully Chuck can make these sometime for us.

rollerboi said:

Holy CRAP, guys. I just stumbled across this thread. How old are those gem lights, anyways?

I'm bugging right now. My dad's had this penlight for AGES, probably at LEAST 20 years if not longer. And it is still in fabulous shape. The pushbutton tip on the gemlight, does it screw down into itself, locking the light on? And on the main body of the light, above the clip, is there a slanted spiral groove making three lines where you see both tips and a middle line (a double line if you can't see the end of it)?

I can't tell you how often I've looked at this and wondered if it were a prop, like the imperial code cylinders. So much, in fact, I kept it when my parents got divorced 17 years ago.. I'm absolutely gobsmacked right now. Right under my nose, all my life.. :lol

http://www.hooverae.com/upload/files/241011/1602213.jpeg
(Oh, and the thing is absolutely straight/parallel, the taper is a trick of the light and perspective.)

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Out of interest (and save me from looking back through several pages), please can somebody tell me which make and model pen-light Troughton used on screen? I assumed it was probably an Ever-Ready, as my grandfather had some Ever-Ready torches (as I recall from my childhood).

Although not screen-accurate as such, I recently bought cheaply off eBay some very sturdy, metal LCD pen torches...



...Underneath is a little black rubber button that switches it on and off; this is removable, revealling a white switch underneath. I have some still in their original packaging, so I'll have to post the make.

Ever-Ready! Just as I thought! Thank you all!

Coincidentally, the Ever Ready torch that Tom Baker uses in "The Robots of Death" (when he is examining the body in the ore store), I am sure my late grandfather used to have one. Ever Ready was a popular brand here in the UK.

markquested said:

Out of interest (and save me from looking back through several pages), please can somebody tell me which make and model pen-light Troughton used on screen? I assumed it was probably an Ever-Ready, as my grandfather had some Ever-Ready torches (as I recall from my childhood).

Although not screen-accurate as such, I recently bought cheaply off eBay some very sturdy, metal LCD pen torches...

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa446/markanthonyquested/20130215_182655_zps37db4df2.jpg

...Underneath is a little black rubber button that switches it on and off; this is removable, revealling a white switch underneath. I have some still in their original packaging, so I'll have to post the make.

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The ones I bought appear to be called Laser LED pen light, distributed in the UK by The Tool Connection Ltd.

Good find.

Just so you know the original didn't have a button on the body of the tube and, as seen above, there was a sticky out bulb, that adds to the 'retro' look. Have a look at some of the Troughton image caps among other things, from War Games on this thread. That will explain what I mean

mooneye63 said:

Good find.

Just so you know the original didn't have a button on the body of the tube and, as seen above, there was a sticky out bulb, that adds to the 'retro' look. Have a look at some of the Troughton image caps among other things, from War Games on this thread. That will explain what I mean

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Agreed. The ones I bought are not screen-accurate; more my idealised version of the 2nd Dr's Sonic Screwdriver.

Jack T Chance said:

Well, for starters, the party elsewhere on the interwebz not only has an original penlight, same as was used by Patrick Troughton, but they also have the means and possibly the intent to produce a run of duplicates for those that wish to purchase one. The gentlemanly thing to do would have been to contact said individual to make sure they were okay with someone else producing a run, as NTBBCPD is clearly doing. I see no reason why he would need to make so many of the things just for personal use!

But never mind, it's an ethical question, the point of which is clearly not understood by everyone. :unsure

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Whilst we are on the topic of ethics...

If you are speaking of the person I think you are speaking of, then the said person does not have a BBC Worldwide license and is therefore manufacturing illegally; which is unethical. Likewise, the pen torch design is the copyright of Ever Ready, who as Straker has pointed out manufactured the original; and I'd be surprised if the individual concerned will even bother approaching Ever Ready! This same individual is now banned from two major websites for his abusive, unethical manner.

...assuming we are talking of the same individual!

AMENDMENT -

My point is an unlicensed props seller has no ethical or legal right to stop NTBBCPD or any of the rest of us from making our own replicas of the 2nd Dr's Sonic Screwdriver. But Jack T Chance appeared to think differently. By the way, I have read through the blog of the props seller in question and his language and behaviour was extremely unsavoury!

I apologise to other props builders for any offence caused or misunderstanding.

markquested said:

Whilst we are on the topic of ethics...

If you are speaking of the person I think you are speaking of, then the said person does not have a BBC Worldwide license and is therefore manufacturing illegally; which is unethical. Likewise, the pen torch design is the copyright of Ever Ready, who as Straker has pointed out manufactured the original; and I'd be surprised if the individual concerned will even bother approaching Ever Ready! This same individual is now banned from two major websites for his abusive, unethical manner.

...assuming we are talking of the same individual!

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I think we are on dangerous ground here. As this is the Replica Prop Forum. Replica Props, that is members sharing there skills to make replies a props. We have runs & produce or sign up to props that others make and money is exchanged for those items, with skilled craftspeople making money no matter how big or small, because we want them in our collection. By making them, the craftsmen & model makers are doing the same as any banned member as licences or permission hasn't been sort. If we buy from any run we are also technically breaking the law too. So as you can see, we are all guilty of something illegal. The member in question was not banned for making replicas, he was banned for unsavoury language from what I have been told. If it was about prop making then this site couldn't go under the title it has, and a number of key members here would also have been banned. As I say legally its grey waters & dodgy ground, so please let's not start throwing stones on that issue as you could hit the majority of us here and I'm sure you don't want that.

Many thanks.

markquested said:

the said person does not have a BBC Worldwide license and is therefore manufacturing illegally; which is unethical. Likewise, the pen torch design is the copyright of Ever Ready, who as Straker has pointed out manufactured the original; and I'd be surprised if the individual concerned will even bother approaching Ever Ready!

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The BBC no more owns the rights to this 50 year old Ever-Ready penlight than Lucasfilm/Disney own the rights to the Graflex 3-cell camera flash (in other words: not at all). On top of that, like the Graflex flash, whatever patents were on this model, they are long expired. As long as no trademarked name like Ever-Ready or Varta is put on the replica, there is NO legal barrier to manufacturing a penlight replica.

mooneye63 said:

I think we are on dangerous ground here. As this is the Replica Prop Forum. Replica Props, that is members sharing there skills to make replies a props. We have runs & produce or sign up to props that others make and money is exchanged for those items, with skilled craftspeople making money no matter how big or small, because we want them in our collection. By making them, the craftsmen & model makers are doing the same as any banned member as licences or permission hasn't been sort. If we buy from any run we are also technically breaking the law too. So as you can see, we are all guilty of something illegal. The member in question was not banned for making replicas, he was banned for unsavoury language from what I have been told. If it was about prop making then this site couldn't go under the title it has, and a number of key members here would also have been banned. As I say legally its grey waters & dodgy ground, so please let's not start throwing stones on that issue as you could hit the majority of us here and I'm sure you don't want that.

Many thanks.

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E Williams said:

The BBC no more owns the rights to this 50 year old Ever-Ready penlight than Lucasfilm/Disney own the rights to the Graflex 3-cell camera flash (in other words: not at all). On top of that, like the Graflex flash, whatever patents were on this model, they are long expired. As long as no trademarked name like Ever-Ready or Varta is put on the replica, there is NO legal barrier to manufacturing a penlight replica.

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I wholeheartedly agree with you both! And no offence was intended to other RPF members by my comments; quite the reverse. Apologies for any offence caused.

My point was an unlicensed props seller has no ethical or legal right to stop NTBBCPD or any of the rest of us from making our own replicas of the 2nd Dr's Sonic Screwdriver. But Jack O Chance appeared to think differently. By the way, I have read through the blog of the props seller in question and his language and behaviour was extremely unsavoury!