Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release)

Yoda said "Always two there are", not "ONLY two there are".

Did the Bane book come out after TPM? If so, it sounds like another stupid EU contrivance to over explain a throw away line in a movie.

It could just mean "where there's one, there's bound to be another".
 
Inquisitor Peregrinus said:
The Rule of Two is about Sith Lords. There can be any number of acolytes, wannabes, and hopefuls vying to be the new Apprentice of whoever the current Master is. Including trying to depose or kill the current Apprentice. I contextually presume there's a certain level of training and book-learning that one must have to even be able to be the Apprentice Dark Lord of the Sith, and that those lower-level dudes don't have it yet.

That said, we have no idea what's going on with Snoke and the Knights of Ren (good name for a band -- write that down), but I take Pablo at his word that whatever they are, they are not Sith.

--Jonah
Click to expand...
The only bummer is that whenever I hear "Ren" I think of Ren and Stimpy. Every. Single. Time. :lol
 
Inquisitor Peregrinus said:
The Rule of Two is about Sith Lords. There can be any number of acolytes, wannabes, and hopefuls vying to be the new Apprentice of whoever the current Master is. Including trying to depose or kill the current Apprentice. I contextually presume there's a certain level of training and book-learning that one must have to even be able to be the Apprentice Dark Lord of the Sith, and that those lower-level dudes don't have it yet.

That said, we have no idea what's going on with Snoke and the Knights of Ren (good name for a band -- write that down), but I take Pablo at his word that whatever they are, they are not Sith.

--Jonah
Click to expand...

What happens in the case of RoTJ? The master and his apprentice were wiped out and Vader had no apprentice we know of. So, in one fight, both are gone. Can't tell me it never happened in the previous thousand years, multiple times.

What allows one guy to crown himself Sith Lord? If he can just do it because he says it is, tends to lose its meaning. It's never been established what it means or takes to be sith vs just a dark side of the force person, vs a knight of ren, or whatever you want to call whatever sect.
 
Well, Sith was one thing in the EU. It is metamorphosing into something else in the new canon. The vague shape of it seems to be "people trained in the Jedi arts/skills but who reject Jedi philosophy/tenets, opting instead to try to control rather than serve, who wallow in emotion rather than tempering or denying it", and that sort of thing. Old and new, they still seem to have originated in the Second Jedi Schism -- aka the Hundred Year Darkness.

I guess all it takes is someone being strong in the Force, finding a Sith holocron, and being guided by visions from that and dead Sith Masters. *shrug*

And it has happened before. Not for nothing the Jedi thought the Sith were extinct by the time of TPM.

--Jonah
 
Tan Djarka said:
Yoda said "Always two there are", not "ONLY two there are".

Did the Bane book come out after TPM? If so, it sounds like another stupid EU contrivance to over explain a throw away line in a movie.

It could just mean "where there's one, there's bound to be another".
Click to expand...

They came out after TPM. Yoda was obviously referring to Sith because he specifically says a master and an apprentice. That doesn't mean there are no other Dark Side users around, just that they aren't Sith. If you're Sith, there are only two after Bane created the Rule of Two (roughly 1,000 years before TPM). Either way Lucas came up with it.



cboath said:
What happens in the case of RoTJ? The master and his apprentice were wiped out and Vader had no apprentice we know of. So, in one fight, both are gone. Can't tell me it never happened in the previous thousand years, multiple times.

What allows one guy to crown himself Sith Lord? If he can just do it because he says it is, tends to lose its meaning. It's never been established what it means or takes to be sith vs just a dark side of the force person, vs a knight of ren, or whatever you want to call whatever sect.
Click to expand...

I think like someone above said, if they isn't a line of succession then the Sith just probably hope someone will find their teachings, like a Holocron, and take up the mantle. It would be interesting if Lucas ever answered that.
 
cboath said:
What allows one guy to crown himself Sith Lord? If he can just do it because he says it is, tends to lose its meaning. It's never been established what it means or takes to be sith vs just a dark side of the force person, vs a knight of ren, or whatever you want to call whatever sect.
Click to expand...
I believe, and I may just be going off Old Canon, so correct me if I'm wrong, but one becomes a Sith by killing their master and becoming the new Sith Master, and then proceeds to take on an apprentice.
 
You know, as much as people bash the prequels, so much of the common myth building comes from there.

Sith, for example is so common in our language and mainstream media. Although it was used in supporting Star wars media, it was never mentioned in the old movies.

Padawan is also an example. Everyone knows what a Padawan is


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cboath said:
What happens in the case of RoTJ? The master and his apprentice were wiped out and Vader had no apprentice we know of. So, in one fight, both are gone. Can't tell me it never happened in the previous thousand years, multiple times.
Click to expand...

Mara Jade was "The Emperor's Hand". If not for her encounter with Luke and Luuke, and had the Emperor or Vader survived ROTJ, she may well have become the next Sith in that line. She also had Luke's ESB saber. Which, along with Anakin using it to kill the youngones, could be part of why that lightsaber conjures up a spooky first encounter with itself for Rey. I think the poor thing has been quite shaken through the misuse it has had to endure.



JoMamma_Smurf said:
His exact quote was "Always two there are, no more, no less.... A master and an apprentice."
Click to expand...

Exactly! That's were my confusion lies. I've read a lot of Star Wars books, but never came across Bane and his "Rule of Two". It's almost impossible to catch up with it all and with Disney at the reigns, none of it matters. What really makes no sense is the Jedi using lightsabers in battle. Think about The Clone Wars...why would you have a sword to fight a bunch of robots when a blaster would be more efficient? A sword is a weapon best used against other swords. Sword against sword, 'mano a mano', knights and chivalry and all that... why would there be fields of lightsaber wielding Jedi and only 2 lightsaber wielding Sith? Not very sporting.
 
Inquisitor Peregrinus said:
I guess all it takes is someone being strong in the Force, finding a Sith holocron, and being guided by visions from that and dead Sith Masters
--Jonah
Click to expand...

Speaking of "visions", the number one thing that bugs me about The Force Awakens is that Anakin (who has been redeemed in the Force, and allowed to come back as a good spirit at the end of ROTJ - WHICH IS IRREFUTABLE CANON) cannot have given any Dark Side advise to Kylo Ren. Whatever is going on there with Kylo 'hearing' Vader, it is all within his head.
 
Ridire Firean said:
I've read a lot of Star Wars books, but never came across Bane and his "Rule of Two". It's almost impossible to catch up with it all and with Disney at the reigns, none of it matters.
Click to expand...

To my recollection. Bane and the Rule of Two were first mentioned and explained in Terry Brooks' novelization for TPM in 1999.

M

ETA - from Wookiepedia: "The novelization is especially well-known for a passage describing the history of the Sith, including Darth Bane. According to Terry Brooks' memoir, Sometimes the Magic Works: Lessons from a Writing Life, Lucas spent an hour on the telephone with him discussing the history of the Jedi and the Sith. Therefore, the information on this subject provided in Brooks' novelization might derive from Lucas himself."
 
Ridire Firean said:
Speaking of "visions", the number one thing that bugs me about The Force Awakens is that Anakin (who has been redeemed in the Force, and allowed to come back as a good spirit at the end of ROTJ - WHICH IS IRREFUTABLE CANON) cannot have given any Dark Side advise to Kylo Ren. Whatever is going on there with Kylo 'hearing' Vader, it is all within his head.
Click to expand...
Kylo is messed up. He's like Ed Norton in American history X. (In the flashbacks)

Anakin isn't communicating with him. He's just hearing confused noise

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Ridire Firean said:
Mara Jade was "The Emperor's Hand". If not for her encounter with Luke and Luuke, and had the Emperor or Vader survived ROTJ, she may well have become the next Sith in that line. She also had Luke's ESB saber. Which, along with Anakin using it to kill the youngones, could be part of why that lightsaber conjures up a spooky first encounter with itself for Rey. I think the poor thing has been quite shaken through the misuse it has had to endure.





Exactly! That's were my confusion lies. I've read a lot of Star Wars books, but never came across Bane and his "Rule of Two". It's almost impossible to catch up with it all and with Disney at the reigns, none of it matters. What really makes no sense is the Jedi using lightsabers in battle. Think about The Clone Wars...why would you have a sword to fight a bunch of robots when a blaster would be more efficient? A sword is a weapon best used against other swords. Sword against sword, 'mano a mano', knights and chivalry and all that... why would there be fields of lightsaber wielding Jedi and only 2 lightsaber wielding Sith? Not very sporting.
Click to expand...
Blasters have no defensive capabilities whatsoever.

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astroboy said:
Blasters have no defensive capabilities whatsoever.
Click to expand...

Hey astroboy! No, they sure don't. But if droids can have personal shield generators, there's no reason people can't have them. The winner of the fight would be the one with the bigger battery! (i.e. whoever's battery runs out first is the first one to get shot.) ;)

Not to mention that if you were UBER-STRONG in the Force, you'd just freeze all the blaster bolts that had been shot at you in mid-air and redirect them at the shooter. Or make them disperse into a fancy glitter light show that falls harmlessly around you like Jedi-Wizard-Pixie-Dust! Besides, who needs blasters OR lightsabers if you could just Force Crush all of your opponents? Food for thought.
 
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