Doctor Who opinions

They missed a couple of opportunities here.

1. They had the chance to kill davros beautifully.
2. They have the opportunity to replace him with a new leader of the daleks...the dalek timelord hybrid. (Chasing him down could have lasted seasons)

And 3. They had a wonderful chance to connect this Clara with the one from the dalek asylum. We could have even had a crossover episode.

NakedMoleRat said:

Dalek Kahn (sp?) tried over and over until he broke through the time lock to rescue Davros. See: the David Tennant years.

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It's been a while since I watched that one, but I remember. What I was wondering was how Davros & Dalek Supreme survived the end of Series 4.

astroboy said:

They missed a couple of opportunities here.

1. They had the chance to kill davros beautifully.
2. They have the opportunity to replace him with a new leader of the daleks...the dalek timelord hybrid. (Chasing him down could have lasted seasons)

And 3. They had a wonderful chance to connect this Clara with the one from the dalek asylum. We could have even had a crossover episode.

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1. True - and I thought it was going that way - but they'd just bring him back in 2-3 years. Then we'd all be mad again.
2-3. What if these points are related? Clara's been inside a dalek 3 times now (as the dalek, shrunken inside Rusty, & now driving the dalek) and has been scattered across the Doctor's timeline...

Probably not, though, cuz it would take a bit longer than Jenna's last season to develop this plot. Or, they could just unceremoniously cram it in to the last 2 episodes. BUt that's not Moffat's way, is it?

Kerr Avon said:

Adric died.

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That was a really, really long time ago, and even there, there are official alternate stories where Adric survived (see the audio story "The Boy that Time Forgot") and in The Day of the Doctor, where Adric had his memories erased by UNIT and survived. Death really has no meaning in a world like Doctor Who because anyone can come back at any time.

I think tonight's episode was rather good, probably would have been better if it was just a one part story but oh well, I thought the notecards were pretty amusing.

I'm curious to see if a new sonic will be introduced.

Normally I have something to moan about,....but last nights episode was pretty good

J

Moffats Sherlock was essentialy The Doctor and now The Doctor is turning into Sherlock.

I hated it, especially Clara. The Doctor just had an emotional experience in the last two episodes and now she just wants to have an adventure, screw what the Doctor wants. I want Clara to die the most painful death possible. It's hard to believe but I'm starting to hate her even more than I hated Rose. The whole concept was stupid and to go from a 2-part episode straight into another 2-part episode seems ridiculous. Another two thumbs down.

I think the subtext is Clara wants to die, she wants to be with Danny Pink, she knows there is life after death, and she knows he is there waiting for her.

She is not suicidal, but she does not fear death, if anything she craves it.

That is my take anyway, I doubt Moffat has given it more thought than what looks cool this week.

I'm fine with the 2 part episodes if it means we get a decent story. It's actually more like the classic series that way.

Maybe the Doctor is or was Sherlock Holmes. There should be an episode where he meets sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Ok, so, I watched the first two parter last week, and...honestly...I was bored. Like, throughout the whole thing, I was just bored. There were some cool moments, and Missy was quite entertaining, but it all just seems...I dunno. I just can't bring myself to give a **** about it. Nothing has any consequences in the story, the Daleks themselves aren't all that interesting, and the stuff about "Oh, the Doctor knows he's going to die" I just rolled my eyes at. I haven't seen this past week's episode yet, but I'm really hoping that it improves from the last two weeks.

To be clear, I don't blame anyone in the acting side of things. All of the actors are capable. The man in charge, however, is not.


I read an article that discussed how Doctor Who doesn't seem to know what it wants to be, and can't seem to find the right balance. Is it a fun, adventures-in-time-and-space show where the Doctor and his companion merrily romp about space-time and it never goes deeper than that? Is it a more emotionally grounded show that treats the Doctor and his companion as real characters, rather than as mere vehicles for the writer's own wish fulfillment?

There are, undoubtedly, moments where Moffat's iteration of Doctor Who can hit emotional beats REALLY hard, and REALLY well. The guy can make you feel. But he has this ****ing impulse to just "Let him be really good at everything" that totally undercuts everything.

The one plus side that I've seen -- so far -- is that there doesn't seem to be a hammered-home story arc this season. Certainly not like last season, anyway, with everyone showing up at "heaven" at the end of each episode. The downside is that, I think, this means the episodes will be a lot more throwaway adventure stories which...eh...are fun, but not that interesting.

I think the real difference between the Davies era and the Moffat era is that Davies seemed to treat his Doctor as a real character, and treated the companions the same way. He made them as real people. Moffat has that ability...but doesn't really care to exercise it except sporadically. As a result, his Doctor -- however grounded he may be from time to time -- always has some kind of glib dodge for things.

Oh, and that bit about "The really interesting question is...where did I get the tea from? I'm the Doctor. Just accept it."

Oh yeah? Well **** you, too, Moffat.


--Edit--

I think the other part that bugs me about all this is that Moffat's approach to the show seems like he's trying so very, very hard to prove how very, very clever he is. Except, in trying so hard, he actually undermines his stories. Maybe that also explains some of the amateurish/fan-fiction quality to it.

I watched the last of the time lords again yesterday, and I still felt more emotionally involved in an episode I have seen 5 or 6 times than with any of the new episodes.

The RTD companions were ordinary women, some of them went onto do to extraordinary things by virtue of the time vortex, or suddenly become half timelord, but they weren't special when he met them.

Then you get the Moffat women, River who is his wife, Amy who is River's mother, who managed to give birth to a child half timelord, and who can literally bring the Doctor back into existence, and then Clara who can die twice and still be alive, who has been part of every one of his lives, chose his tardis, and even met him as a boy.

Where are the ordinary people now? The companion used to be someone the audience could identify with, someone who just travelled with the Doctor, not someone who is more important than the Doctor.

Yea, I agree. The companions have gotten, I wouldn't say too complicated, just unbelievable, too contrived if you will. I know many will laugh at me but I real liked the first of the new seasons with Christopher Eccleston, and no not just because he had my favorite TARDIS, sonic screwdriver and that tough guy leather jacket appeal. I thought his acting was really spot on.

glunark,

They kind of tried to do that last season, and people complained that it was the Clara show. Again, I think it gets back to balancing issues. It's either all one way or all another. And, as I've said, I didn't even mind the "Clara show" as long as it was her swan song. It wasn't, though, and so far I don't see Clara as showing any lingering effect from what happened before. Chrissakes, the man she loved died, came back as a cyberman, and then died AGAIN.


Part of what made the RTD series successful was that it treated the companions as actual characters. The Doctor had an impact on their lives. Traveling with the Doctor came with a cost, and you saw that register on the companions over time. The show felt much more grounded. With Amy, though, she didn't really have a life outside of the Doctor, it seemed, other than Rory, and once he became a companion, too, it didn't matter. Honestly, it just feels like Moffat doesn't write the roles in a way that treats them as human beings, so much as they are just make-believe toys for him to play with. And that includes the Doctor. When you just brush off every criticism with "I'm the Doctor. Deal with it," you eliminate any sense of relatability from the character, and that is ESSENTIAL for an audience. Same deal with the companions. When the companions don't behave in believable ways, then they stop being relatable for the audience, and the show is weightless. It becomes pantomime.

To an extent, the old show was like this. The characters were far less grounded, the acting was more exaggerated, and much of the stories were kind of disposable, or more about sci-fi for the sake of "Cool! Aliens!" than to explore interesting concepts in depth. That wasn't always true, of course, but it often was. This is when the show is treated as being "for kids." What's made the show successful in its revival is its ability to appeal both to kids and adults, and it does that by doing the same exploration of fantastical adventures...but when it's working at its best, it does so by exploring these adventures with grounded characters. Yes, even including a 900+ year old Time Lord.

I really like Peter as the Doctor. The problem of it is (IMO) that there is no constancy in the style of story telling. I rather enjoyed the first part of the first episode but since then (this season obviously) it seems emotions and tempo are just all over the place. It feels like the shows are just ramblings.

drcraig13 said:

I really like Peter as the Doctor. The problem of it is (IMO) that there is no constancy in the style of story telling. I rather enjoyed the first part of the first episode but since then (this season obviously) it seems emotions and tempo are just all over the place. It feels like the shows are just ramblings.

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Yeah, to be clear, I really enjoy Capaldi as the Doctor. I think he could be brilliant. But the writing...not so much.

Solo4114 said:

I think the other part that bugs me about all this is that Moffat's approach to the show seems like he's trying so very, very hard to prove how very, very clever he is. Except, in trying so hard, he actually undermines his stories. Maybe that also explains some of the amateurish/fan-fiction quality to it.

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I think that's a good point. He's convinced of his own cleverness, except instead of actually showing us all how clever he is through his writing and his directing and his leadership, he just keeps TELLING us how clever he is and expects people to buy into it. The problem is, very little of what he actually does is really that clever. Sure, he has his moments, rarely, but most of the time it is just fanboy nonsense.

Doctor Who has to straddle the line. It isn't about real people, it's fantasy, but it also can't be just fanboy wish fulfillment either. Both Davies and Moffat got it wrong. We need someone who can get it right.

glunark said:

I watched the last of the time lords again yesterday, and I still felt more emotionally involved in an episode I have seen 5 or 6 times than with any of the new episodes.

The RTD companions were ordinary women, some of them went onto do to extraordinary things by virtue of the time vortex, or suddenly become half timelord, but they weren't special when he met them.

Then you get the Moffat women, River who is his wife, Amy who is River's mother, who managed to give birth to a child half timelord, and who can literally bring the Doctor back into existence, and then Clara who can die twice and still be alive, who has been part of every one of his lives, chose his tardis, and even met him as a boy.

Where are the ordinary people now? The companion used to be someone the audience could identify with, someone who just travelled with the Doctor, not someone who is more important than the Doctor.

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The problem with the RTD companions is that he wanted the Doctor to get into their pants. Sorry, the Doctor isn't human, no matter how he looks, so anything that happened between the Doctor and his companions would be bestiality. That's where RTD went horribly, horribly wrong. The whole point of the companions is to have a character the audience can identify with, someone who can be shown the wonders of time and space. It's not someone the Doctor can bed down with. That should never, ever, ever be part of Doctor Who.

Moffat's women though, as you say, are wholly unrealistic. He makes them perfect. He makes them absurdly important. I really can't stand them.

At this point I'd love to mention how awesome Donna Noble was. Her ending was by far the most tragic moment of the series.

Personally I think Cappaldi it a good actor, but is playing the Doctor way too dark. And what's what the sonic screwdriver now being a a pair of sonic sunshades? That's just wrong on so many levels!!