Rogue One - Jyn Erso BlasTech A180 Blaster Pistol
- Thread starter Mat
- Start date
Re: Rogue One Felicity Jones gun - ideas
Well, I'll be dagummed! I stand corrected.
I thought for sure all that heavy monkey metal would outweigh an airsoft, at least by a few ounces.
Although, I reckon the WE airsoft guns use that same kind of metal. Still, I'd think with all the moving parts and empty space inside, the airsoft would end up lighter.
Well, I'll be dagummed! I stand corrected.
I thought for sure all that heavy monkey metal would outweigh an airsoft, at least by a few ounces.
Although, I reckon the WE airsoft guns use that same kind of metal. Still, I'd think with all the moving parts and empty space inside, the airsoft would end up lighter.
Re: Rogue One Felicity Jones gun - ideas
A lot of the cheaper GBBs (which WE definitely is) are monkey metal as well. Plus, remember the GGB's magazine - that often adds a signficant chunk.
mtotin
Active Member
Re: Rogue One Felicity Jones gun - ideas
Sorry if I'm late to the party and hopefully this pic I just snagged hasn't already been used. My understanding is that they are using blank firing weapons. A lot of productions still use them to get the real effect and reaction from the actors. You can tell when it's a cap gun. I've never heard of anyone using airsoft. Jyn's is obviously a reproduction P08 that has been modified. And I like that they did that. Holding to the scheme of the original films.
Sorry if I'm late to the party and hopefully this pic I just snagged hasn't already been used. My understanding is that they are using blank firing weapons. A lot of productions still use them to get the real effect and reaction from the actors. You can tell when it's a cap gun. I've never heard of anyone using airsoft. Jyn's is obviously a reproduction P08 that has been modified. And I like that they did that. Holding to the scheme of the original films.
mtotin
Active Member
Re: Rogue One Felicity Jones gun - ideas
As stated in my last post, I wasn't aware of the use of airsoft in productions, but a buddy who hasn't been out as long as I have verified that airsoft and even more so, reproduction pellet guns have become popular. Apparently Umarex is a major player in movie guns now.
As stated in my last post, I wasn't aware of the use of airsoft in productions, but a buddy who hasn't been out as long as I have verified that airsoft and even more so, reproduction pellet guns have become popular. Apparently Umarex is a major player in movie guns now.
Re: Rogue One Felicity Jones gun - ideas
Yes, like I said earlier, the last production I worked where I was assistant armorer, we used quite a few airsoft guns in scenes where blank guns would've been too dangerous, or we didn't want to use as many of our blank loads.
In extremely tight quarters, even with a full-plug blank gun and 1/4 loads, you've still got hot brass bouncing around that could hit the actors.
Yes, like I said earlier, the last production I worked where I was assistant armorer, we used quite a few airsoft guns in scenes where blank guns would've been too dangerous, or we didn't want to use as many of our blank loads.
In extremely tight quarters, even with a full-plug blank gun and 1/4 loads, you've still got hot brass bouncing around that could hit the actors.
smithjohnj
Sr Member
Re: Rogue One Felicity Jones gun - ideas
Here is a list of the modifications currently known to be required to convert a Luger P08 Naval to Jyn's weapon.
The length of the WE version of this weapon from the rear of the frame (not including the lanyard ring) to the front of the barrel is 260 mm. This was the baseline measurement for all other estimates.
· Remove the rear sight.
· Remove the safety from left side.
· Grind down the top section of the frame rib from Right-side. Leave the rear and curved section of the rib in place.
Grind down the top sections of the frame rib from Left-side. Leave the rear and curved section of the rib in place. (Caution: the only “evidence“ of this modification is from an illustration on the cover of the leaked “Rogue One Official Visual Story Guide”. However since the original frame rib is the same on both the right and left sides, making the same modification on both sides would seem to be reasonable.)
· Grind down the front sight smooth with the barrel. (Alternatively - slot the front of the barrel shroud.)
· Add a Right-side plate with three 6 mm button head hex? machine screws to the frame just above the grip.
· Add a Left-side plate with two screws to the frame just above the grip.
(An assumption with no real evidence, the left and right side plates may connect to and attach the barrel shroud.)
· Add a barrel shroud. (see below)
· Add a “rail system” under the shroud which extends forward from the trigger guard.
Shroud
Estimated to be 1.125” or 28.6 mm in diameter. The overall length of the shroud is 155 mm. In the rear, the bottom half of the shroud is cut forward 23mm to fit over the frame and abut the leading edge of the trigger sideplate on the left-hand side.
The barrel (or facsimile if using a shorter barrel version) protrudes from the shroud, 3mm. (source Celebration Behind the Scenes video.)
The front cap of the shroud is 4.5 mm wide. (There is a clear groove even if this element is produced as a single part with no separation.)
There is a single 2 mm diameter hole on the top center-line of the shroud (found in some but not all photos), located 9 mm from the front end of the shroud or 12 mm from the front of the barrel. In a practical design this could be a set screw used to attach the end cap to the shroud.
There are 6 holes spaced down both side center-lines of the shroud. Holes estimated to be 6 mm or 1/4” in diameter, spaced 13 mm on center. The center of the forward most hole is located 16 mm from the front of the shroud.
There is a black {mounting?} ring which surrounds the shroud and “may” attach to a rail system underneath the shroud. The ring is 25 mm wide and its forward edge is located 90 mm from the front of the shroud. The height of the ring is unknown at this point but I would estimate the thickness to be at least 1.5 mm. The bottom configuration of the ring is unknown.
Behind the black ring there are 12 shallow 1 mm grooves, each separated by approximately 1 mm (source is the highly magnified Entertainment Weekly Cover photo so dimensions are estimated to fit into the available space).
Caution: The following dimensions are gross estimates as they are taken from long-range images, with poor orientation, and with very little, nearby, hard reference measurements to provide accurate comparison. However this at least provides a baseline for improvement once better sources are available.
Under-Shroud Rail (the best source of this information comes from the Celebration BTS video with comparison to the poster illustration.)
There appears to be two main elements of this system. A “bracket” which abuts the front of the trigger guard and attaches to the frame, shroud, or both; and a protruding “rail” element. In the video the background of the scene can be seem as the weapon moves indicating there is a clear space between the shroud and this element in front of the ring, and also an opening in the bracket.
The overall system extends in front of the trigger guard by 107 mm. ending 40 mm before the barrel end. This rail element appears to attach to both the bracket and the bottom of the ring as there is no gap between the shroud and the rail from the frame to the front of the ring. This rail element based on the illustration may be a 6 mm by 6 mm, T-bar.
The height/width of the rail seems to be consistent in size as it is moves and twists about in the Celebration Behind the Scenes video. The front plane of the protrusion is at an angle of approximately 45 degrees. If the rail is 6 mm height and the gap between the rail and the bottom of the shroud is 4 mm., this would position the bottom of the T-bar inline with the bottom of the front end of the frame.
The bracket also appears from the illustration to be a T-bar. However in the video the bracket appears to be wider and the opening appears to be larger than the gap between the shroud and the rail. At this time I am assuming the lower rail which makes up the bracket is 12 mm wide which is the same width as the trigger guard. If there is a 6 mm gap between the bottom of the rail and the top of the bracket rail, and the rail height is again 6 mm, this would place the bottom of the bracket slightly below the midline of the trigger guard. This position seems consistent with the image evidence available to date.
A partial illustration of these concepts is attached.
Here is a list of the modifications currently known to be required to convert a Luger P08 Naval to Jyn's weapon.
The length of the WE version of this weapon from the rear of the frame (not including the lanyard ring) to the front of the barrel is 260 mm. This was the baseline measurement for all other estimates.
· Remove the rear sight.
· Remove the safety from left side.
· Grind down the top section of the frame rib from Right-side. Leave the rear and curved section of the rib in place.
Grind down the top sections of the frame rib from Left-side. Leave the rear and curved section of the rib in place. (Caution: the only “evidence“ of this modification is from an illustration on the cover of the leaked “Rogue One Official Visual Story Guide”. However since the original frame rib is the same on both the right and left sides, making the same modification on both sides would seem to be reasonable.)
· Grind down the front sight smooth with the barrel. (Alternatively - slot the front of the barrel shroud.)
· Add a Right-side plate with three 6 mm button head hex? machine screws to the frame just above the grip.
· Add a Left-side plate with two screws to the frame just above the grip.
(An assumption with no real evidence, the left and right side plates may connect to and attach the barrel shroud.)
· Add a barrel shroud. (see below)
· Add a “rail system” under the shroud which extends forward from the trigger guard.
Shroud
Estimated to be 1.125” or 28.6 mm in diameter. The overall length of the shroud is 155 mm. In the rear, the bottom half of the shroud is cut forward 23mm to fit over the frame and abut the leading edge of the trigger sideplate on the left-hand side.
The barrel (or facsimile if using a shorter barrel version) protrudes from the shroud, 3mm. (source Celebration Behind the Scenes video.)
The front cap of the shroud is 4.5 mm wide. (There is a clear groove even if this element is produced as a single part with no separation.)
There is a single 2 mm diameter hole on the top center-line of the shroud (found in some but not all photos), located 9 mm from the front end of the shroud or 12 mm from the front of the barrel. In a practical design this could be a set screw used to attach the end cap to the shroud.
There are 6 holes spaced down both side center-lines of the shroud. Holes estimated to be 6 mm or 1/4” in diameter, spaced 13 mm on center. The center of the forward most hole is located 16 mm from the front of the shroud.
There is a black {mounting?} ring which surrounds the shroud and “may” attach to a rail system underneath the shroud. The ring is 25 mm wide and its forward edge is located 90 mm from the front of the shroud. The height of the ring is unknown at this point but I would estimate the thickness to be at least 1.5 mm. The bottom configuration of the ring is unknown.
Behind the black ring there are 12 shallow 1 mm grooves, each separated by approximately 1 mm (source is the highly magnified Entertainment Weekly Cover photo so dimensions are estimated to fit into the available space).
Caution: The following dimensions are gross estimates as they are taken from long-range images, with poor orientation, and with very little, nearby, hard reference measurements to provide accurate comparison. However this at least provides a baseline for improvement once better sources are available.
Under-Shroud Rail (the best source of this information comes from the Celebration BTS video with comparison to the poster illustration.)
There appears to be two main elements of this system. A “bracket” which abuts the front of the trigger guard and attaches to the frame, shroud, or both; and a protruding “rail” element. In the video the background of the scene can be seem as the weapon moves indicating there is a clear space between the shroud and this element in front of the ring, and also an opening in the bracket.
The overall system extends in front of the trigger guard by 107 mm. ending 40 mm before the barrel end. This rail element appears to attach to both the bracket and the bottom of the ring as there is no gap between the shroud and the rail from the frame to the front of the ring. This rail element based on the illustration may be a 6 mm by 6 mm, T-bar.
The height/width of the rail seems to be consistent in size as it is moves and twists about in the Celebration Behind the Scenes video. The front plane of the protrusion is at an angle of approximately 45 degrees. If the rail is 6 mm height and the gap between the rail and the bottom of the shroud is 4 mm., this would position the bottom of the T-bar inline with the bottom of the front end of the frame.
The bracket also appears from the illustration to be a T-bar. However in the video the bracket appears to be wider and the opening appears to be larger than the gap between the shroud and the rail. At this time I am assuming the lower rail which makes up the bracket is 12 mm wide which is the same width as the trigger guard. If there is a 6 mm gap between the bottom of the rail and the top of the bracket rail, and the rail height is again 6 mm, this would place the bottom of the bracket slightly below the midline of the trigger guard. This position seems consistent with the image evidence available to date.
A partial illustration of these concepts is attached.
Re: Rogue One Felicity Jones gun - ideas
Nice rundown, great research!
Can't wait to see some better shots of the real prop. Until that time, I'm leaving my Luger completely stock!
Where are you seeing that the Luger barrel protrudes from the shroud, though?
Nice rundown, great research!
Can't wait to see some better shots of the real prop. Until that time, I'm leaving my Luger completely stock!
Where are you seeing that the Luger barrel protrudes from the shroud, though?
smithjohnj
Sr Member
Re: Rogue One Felicity Jones gun - ideas
I agree I have been very happy with the quality of the WE. Also On the Jyn Erso Costume thread the link to following flickr album was provided.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/withoutastitchon/28342901592/in/album-72157668427075574/
It is an excellent source of some new costumes and a few good photos of the tonfa (I have some details of that on that other thread and have not repeated them here.)
Edit: There are 42 Jyn Erso photos in the album, I have just pointed you to the one specific to the barrel/shroud relationship.
I agree I have been very happy with the quality of the WE. Also On the Jyn Erso Costume thread the link to following flickr album was provided.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/withoutastitchon/28342901592/in/album-72157668427075574/
It is an excellent source of some new costumes and a few good photos of the tonfa (I have some details of that on that other thread and have not repeated them here.)
Edit: There are 42 Jyn Erso photos in the album, I have just pointed you to the one specific to the barrel/shroud relationship.
smithjohnj
Sr Member
Re: Rogue One Felicity Jones gun - ideas
The diameter of the protrusion from the front of the shroud calculates to approximately 15 mm which is the same as the WE barrel. That was what led me to the current layout until better information is available. The distances involved are small as it protrudes only 3 mm and the thickness of the endcap could be thin so only adding less than 5 mm to the length of just the shroud. Obviously for a non-functional replicate there is no worry about proper alignment of the barrel and the opening in the shroud as there would be in real life. (However being able to operate as a functional airsoft gun does have its appeal. The shroud today does not interfere with cycling the mechanism.) Lengthening the shroud does have the advantage of not needing to grind off the front sight. Using the barrel only saves some simple fabrication of a 3mm by 15 mm ring. I hope we do get more photos from Comic Con.
The diameter of the protrusion from the front of the shroud calculates to approximately 15 mm which is the same as the WE barrel. That was what led me to the current layout until better information is available. The distances involved are small as it protrudes only 3 mm and the thickness of the endcap could be thin so only adding less than 5 mm to the length of just the shroud. Obviously for a non-functional replicate there is no worry about proper alignment of the barrel and the opening in the shroud as there would be in real life. (However being able to operate as a functional airsoft gun does have its appeal. The shroud today does not interfere with cycling the mechanism.) Lengthening the shroud does have the advantage of not needing to grind off the front sight. Using the barrel only saves some simple fabrication of a 3mm by 15 mm ring. I hope we do get more photos from Comic Con.
Son of Skywalker
Well-Known Member
Re: Rogue One Felicity Jones gun - ideas
With all the great airsoft available I'm surprised at how often blank guns are still used on productions.
Worked on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes and during the city battle scene I was part of the barricade of about 18 guys - all blank firing. Stacked pretty close, every one of us felt hot brass at some point. (I had an ACR on full auto...good times).
And thanks smithjohnj for the great info!
With all the great airsoft available I'm surprised at how often blank guns are still used on productions.
Worked on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes and during the city battle scene I was part of the barricade of about 18 guys - all blank firing. Stacked pretty close, every one of us felt hot brass at some point. (I had an ACR on full auto...good times).
And thanks smithjohnj for the great info!
mtotin
Active Member
Re: Rogue One Felicity Jones gun - ideas
Airsoft and pellet guns can give you good action at a much lower cost, but you lose muzzle flash and recoil. For close quarters action most armorers will put up lexan barriers for added protection with blank guns. It's pretty easy to see the difference between real muzzle flash and CGI garbage. And don't get me started on CGI blood.
Air guns definitely make sense for blasters.
Airsoft and pellet guns can give you good action at a much lower cost, but you lose muzzle flash and recoil. For close quarters action most armorers will put up lexan barriers for added protection with blank guns. It's pretty easy to see the difference between real muzzle flash and CGI garbage. And don't get me started on CGI blood.
Air guns definitely make sense for blasters.
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