Westworld (HBO)

Re: HBO gives us a "Westworld" remake as a series!

Fawbish said:
The introduction host made a valid (that has been used many times I know) but still wonderfully hard hitting point - "If you can't tell, does it matter?"

I like how once they mentioned that the hosts will talk to one another to practice, some of the conversations we'd seen previously take on a different light.
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It's interesting to know that not all of their interactions are scripted... but it's also kind of creepy.
 
After seeing two episodes I get the sinking feeling J.J will pile up the questionmarks without ever resolving any of them. Great looking show though, the first episode might be the best tv-episode this year.
 
Wetwired said:
After seeing two episodes I get the sinking feeling J.J will pile up the questionmarks without ever resolving any of them. Great looking show though, the first episode might be the best tv-episode this year.
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I'll be REALLY mad if this ends up like Lost. So far I like this show... which means it's already off to a better start than Lost.

Hopefully he's learned from the fan response to his previous work and won't leave gaping holes in the overall story.
 
Fawbish said:
And one more thought - more of a question - have we been shown that guests can even come across each other? As far as I can see, we've only seen instances of guests that already know each other, such as families or two friends. If there is an instance of seeing two people, unknown to each other coming across each other that I havent seen, then fair play. If that is the case - you no more need to worry about bare handed killing then you do about three friends on the street.
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I felt that it was implied implied that guests can encounter each other when William and Logan are in the bar. William says something along the lines of "How do you know if they're real or not?" Logan pulls out his pistol and points it at another person in the bar and says "Lets find out," or something to that effect.

That, to me, implied that there can be guest interactions. Had Logan been able to kill the person, it wasn't real...had he not, it was a real human.

There is also something that that happened during a shootout in the third episode that had me thinking there were separate groups of guests together...but that episode came out after you made this post so I won't detail what I thought so as not to spoil it for anyone that hasn't seen it.

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I have absolutely loved the show. It's literally dripping mystery, and the imagery has been nothing short of breathtaking.

My only problem is I don't know many people that have HBO, so I can't discuss how awesome it is with any regularity.
 
Gimpdiggity said:
(...)Logan pulls out his pistol and points it at another person in the bar and says "Lets find out," or something to that effect.

That, to me, implied that there can be guest interactions. Had Logan been able to kill the person, it wasn't real...had he not, it was a real human.(...)
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To me it implied that he knew that everyone else in the room was a host. I would think you´d minimize guest interaction as to create the feeling you could treat anyone anyway you wanted. If every other character could be a guest it would make for rather awkward situations.

The reason they keep asking if someone is real or not is just to establish for the viewer that the hosts are very lifelike but not real. It´s just the writing to make sure viewers get this.
 
Gimpdiggity said:
I felt that it was implied implied that guests can encounter each other when William and Logan are in the bar. William says something along the lines of "How do you know if they're real or not?" Logan pulls out his pistol and points it at another person in the bar and says "Lets find out," or something to that effect.

That, to me, implied that there can be guest interactions. Had Logan been able to kill the person, it wasn't real...had he not, it was a real human.

There is also something that that happened during a shootout in the third episode that had me thinking there were separate groups of guests together...but that episode came out after you made this post so I won't detail what I thought so as not to spoil it for anyone that hasn't seen it.

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I have absolutely loved the show. It's literally dripping mystery, and the imagery has been nothing short of breathtaking.

My only problem is I don't know many people that have HBO, so I can't discuss how awesome it is with any regularity.
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Yeah I take it Wetwired's way.

Thanks for being considerate, I am now up to date!

And my assumption in Ep3 was that the new fighter real girl and the scared guy knew each other also - perhaps not closely, but they definitely werent acting like they didn't know each other "I said we should have done the rafting!" was what I think he said?


Overall, what an awesome episode! So many mysteries, everything deepening, more complexities. It challenges you as you watch it to keep up and yet never taxes you too much, leaves just enough mystery to have decent discussions. Fething brilliant.
 
Fawbish said:
Yeah I take it Wetwired's way.

Thanks for being considerate, I am now up to date!

And my assumption in Ep3 was that the new fighter real girl and the scared guy knew each other also - perhaps not closely, but they definitely werent acting like they didn't know each other "I said we should have done the rafting!" was what I think he said?


Overall, what an awesome episode! So many mysteries, everything deepening, more complexities. It challenges you as you watch it to keep up and yet never taxes you too much, leaves just enough mystery to have decent discussions. Fething brilliant.
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Okay, now that you've seen it let me explain why I thought that episode indicated multiple guests in the park at one time.

In this episode, we see Teddy leave Dolores to go and hunt for Wyatt, his newly introduced "backstory" pillar. Teddy is hunting for Wyatt with two guests...the girl and the guy that end up in the firefight with him out in the desert. I wasn't 100% sure that the girl and guy knew each other, as when he yelled "I told you we should have gone rafting," it didn't appear to me that he was talking to her, so it made me think that he was actually saying that to someone else...a third guest that we hadn't really seen for some reason...however, it did occur to me that maybe he was talking to her.

However...

Because Teddy is out hunting Wyatt with this other group of guests, he isn't able to be with Dolores when she ends up making it back to her farm that night. She's alone. Every other time we've seen this sequence, she's been with Teddy and he goes riding up to the farm when they hear the gunshots. This time, though, since he's not there Dolores goes riding up to the farm herself. When she gets there, like always, the bandits have killed her father. At this point in time, she sees the man that we saw earlier in the episode that was with the bandits, who I thought was a guest in the park...the guy that was with the bandits in town when Teddy ended up showing up and effectively scaring them off. She ends up getting dragged to the shed, but then ends up killing the bandit and rides away.

After she rides away, she ends up running into William and Logan at the very end of the episode.

Now, I know we're dealing with a storytelling method that isn't being completely transparent with it's timelines...however, to me this showed that we had all at the same time:
1. Teddy with the woman and man in the firefight who were guests
2. Dolores with the man with the bandits who I feel was a guest
3. Dolores with William and Logan who we KNOW are guests

Even if you consider that the man that was with the bandits at the farm was another host that we haven't seen, and Dolores hasn't seen, you still have Teddy with two different guests and Dolores with William and Logan at the same time.
 
ya wasn't that amazing!

I thought they used a retouched photo of him from elephant man in the photo.

Then I thought they were just going to show him from behind when he was
telling the story of his old partner, then boom a few face shots with the de-aging fx.

Wow!
 
I have a feeling, after watching last nights flashback, and by paying attention to the westworld logo itself (we've seen 2 different logos) that we are seeing stories in at least 2 different times, one in the early years of the park, and another in the later years of the park.

It's the same logo in the flashback as it is when William and Logan arrive in the park by train.

It's a different logo (the one used for the show itself) in the scenes with Hemsworth and Wright, etc. This is also the same time as "The Man in Black" as Hemsworth and the female tech reference his activity.

So the theory that The Man in Black is William could certainly have some validity.
 
Thoroughly enjoying it so far!

Ed Harris' character must be this disgruntled ex-employee/designer Arnold right?
 
Re: HBO gives us a "Westworld" remake as a series!

Now that we had a digitally D aged Anthony Hopkins I feel more confident that we may see a fully digital yul Brenner appear


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Gimpdiggity said:
Okay, now that you've seen it let me explain why I thought that episode indicated multiple guests in the park at one time.

In this episode, we see Teddy leave Dolores to go and hunt for Wyatt, his newly introduced "backstory" pillar. Teddy is hunting for Wyatt with two guests...the girl and the guy that end up in the firefight with him out in the desert. I wasn't 100% sure that the girl and guy knew each other, as when he yelled "I told you we should have gone rafting," it didn't appear to me that he was talking to her, so it made me think that he was actually saying that to someone else...a third guest that we hadn't really seen for some reason...however, it did occur to me that maybe he was talking to her.

However...

Because Teddy is out hunting Wyatt with this other group of guests, he isn't able to be with Dolores when she ends up making it back to her farm that night. She's alone. Every other time we've seen this sequence, she's been with Teddy and he goes riding up to the farm when they hear the gunshots. This time, though, since he's not there Dolores goes riding up to the farm herself. When she gets there, like always, the bandits have killed her father. At this point in time, she sees the man that we saw earlier in the episode that was with the bandits, who I thought was a guest in the park...the guy that was with the bandits in town when Teddy ended up showing up and effectively scaring them off. She ends up getting dragged to the shed, but then ends up killing the bandit and rides away.

After she rides away, she ends up running into William and Logan at the very end of the episode.

Now, I know we're dealing with a storytelling method that isn't being completely transparent with it's timelines...however, to me this showed that we had all at the same time:
1. Teddy with the woman and man in the firefight who were guests
2. Dolores with the man with the bandits who I feel was a guest
3. Dolores with William and Logan who we KNOW are guests

Even if you consider that the man that was with the bandits at the farm was another host that we haven't seen, and Dolores hasn't seen, you still have Teddy with two different guests and Dolores with William and Logan at the same time.
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Yep, you've nailed it. So my original "defense" (shouldn't even have to defend at this stage, we dont know all the facts, but that is the society we live in now) doesn't hold up. We can now assume that guests (however minimal) are probably in the same area of park at the same time - though we still seem to be keeping large distances between them, as Dolores seemed very tired/was she shot? When she turned up at the makeshift camp?


As Jaitea said too - young Antony Hopkins and a whole ocean of emotion behind his stare at an early host. Wow.

Do we have theories on Arnold yet? I don't imagine Ford killed him, but he also stated that he didn't think Arnolds death was an accident - so suicide? And do we think Arnolds was the voice that told Dolores to shoot?

And was that guy an actual human who she shot or another host? I figured host and that she merely overrode her programming that she couldnt shoot...however she also killed the fly. So was that a real bloke?

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Noeland said:
I have a feeling, after watching last nights flashback, and by paying attention to the westworld logo itself (we've seen 2 different logos) that we are seeing stories in at least 2 different times, one in the early years of the park, and another in the later years of the park.

It's the same logo in the flashback as it is when William and Logan arrive in the park by train.

It's a different logo (the one used for the show itself) in the scenes with Hemsworth and Wright, etc. This is also the same time as "The Man in Black" as Hemsworth and the female tech reference his activity.

So the theory that The Man in Black is William could certainly have some validity.
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That is definitely interesting.

However, havent Hemsworth and Wright crossed paths with the guy who programs the hosts - and didnt they discuss recent Dolores activity? I could do with mapping this all out.

Love it.

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Soulinertia said:
Thoroughly enjoying it so far!

Ed Harris' character must be this disgruntled ex-employee/designer Arnold right?
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****, that's another good idea. It certainly fits in with an earlier comment (oh he can do what he wants) - BUT, it doesn't fit in with Hopkins saying that Arnold had died. However, he could have been talking about his "friend" dying and being replaced by someone full of hate/insanity?
 
Soulinertia said:
Thoroughly enjoying it so far!

Ed Harris' character must be this disgruntled ex-employee/designer Arnold right?
Click to expand...

That's a definite possibility in a sea of possibilities.

Long shot: Possible Ford [Hopkins] is the host Arnold gave consciousness to, he killed Arnold, and he's been hiding among the humans all along. The flashback with the de-aged Hopkins would conflict with that though. Easily retconned as his programmed backstory. We saw it with Teddy, where he has a flashback of his Army days, even though it never actually happened, and was only uploaded to him less than a day before. Ford is a very cold character. Especially when he mentioned Bernard's dead son. Mayne not such a long shot now.

I guess the picture of young Ford is still an issue though... unless the machines can age. Heck, it worked for Arnold the Terminator.
Did anyone else thing Arnold in the picture looks a little like Ian Holm.

Not-as-long-a-shot: Ed Harris' character is the host that Arnold gave consciousness to, and he killed Arnold. Maybe he was also designed where the weapons don't work on him like other hosts... essentially enabling God-mode in him. When the one guest was shot in E03 it didn't kill him but it knocked him on his arse. When Ed Harris was shot by Teddy in E01 it didn't even phase him. He's either toughened up to the shots or as a host set to God-mode, he feels no pain.

The show always seems to center back on Dolores, so I'm sure there's some big twist to her character either in her past or down the road. She's kind of the [BSG] Six character that stands out among the rest of the hosts. She mentions going far

I'm surprised, and maybe it will happen in a later episode/season, that Bernard hasn't built a robot in the image of his dead son that he can visit in the park or something.

The part where the eyeball is being built is amazing.

Dolores mentions "sometimes I feel like the world out there is calling me". I imagine if the show lasts into several seasons she'll end up outside the park.

I like the scene before Teddy gets his backstory and Dolores is obviously starting to run off script... his reaction to her unscripted actions is almost like his computer brain is trying to process how to get back on script. If it's intentional they nailed it. If not, then it shows the actors add a depth to the show that isn't intended.
 
Re: HBO gives us a "Westworld" remake as a series!

Remember they said Delores is the oldest.... the first host.
So why is she still running while the second model: "ol Bill" is decommissioned?

They said Delores has been rebuilt so many times she's practically new


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alienscollection.com said:
Hmm... Same set? Two different timelines?

https://twitter.com/MessyPandas/status/785853972397625345
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I wondered that too. The issue is, in the "run down" cold storage set there is a second set of escalators in the floor just in the foreground, and that Delos globe. In the wider shots of the train station/platform where William and Logan arrive there is no second set of escalators, and there is no Delos Globe that I saw. Rewatched and compared those shots last night. That doesn't mean it's not supposed to be the same set though. Maybe after the "incident" 30 years back they needed some renovations.

My theory about The Man in Black being William, to elaborate, is that we are seeing someone play the game for the first time as a young man, and then for the last time as an old man.

William arrives for the first time, the train, the sets, the woman who introduces him to the game, and his hat are white. I'm also wondering if he isn't involved in the incident Bernard mentions.

His final time in the game, the time he intends to maybe die in the game, or maybe to become part of the game forever as a clone or something, he's playing it as a "straight evil" character. Though I suspect he's played the game both ways many times in 30 years.
 
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I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that it was Gina Torres who played Bernard's wife in the last episode. I had already felt that some of the scenes in the show had a Firefly influence and this just re-enforced that feeling for me. That seemed like such a small part that I'm wondering if we are not going to see more of her in the future.
 
AJK001 said:
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that it was Gina Torres who played Bernard's wife in the last episode. I had already felt that some of the scenes in the show had a Firefly influence and this just re-enforced that feeling for me. That seemed like such a small part that I'm wondering if we are not going to see more of her in the future.
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Man, I wasn't looking at the screen when the conversation started, and when I heard that voice, my head jerked up and was all "ZOEY?!"

I'm okay if it's just a small part like this. It was a real treat to see her regardless.
 

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