A reasonable facsimile of the OOT could be cobbled together from existing sources for home release regardless of the supposed non existence of certain original elements. If fans can do it on their PC, a multibillion dollar company can certainly swing it. And should.

This.

Multiple fan-edits are becoming more popular than the official stuff. That speaks volumes.



Lucasfilm says the original negative cannot be pieced back together? Whatever. This is the same company that still has individual elements from optically-composited shots they did when Gerald Ford was president.

Even if that was true ... the Blu-Ray's color timing alone is bad enough to justify using a 2nd-generation print to fix it.

And before that, fans were already griping that the SE CGI work alone was bad enough to justify using a 2nd-generation print to undo that.


No other movie has such a crazy situation with so much fanbase and yet such crappy versions for sale. Nothing else comes close.
 
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Not true, according to for example Mike Verta and several others.

A reasonable facsimile of the OOT could be cobbled together from existing sources for home release regardless of the supposed non existence of certain original elements. If fans can do it on their PC, a multibillion dollar company can certainly swing it. And should.

I won't touch on the "should" for fear of invoking the wrath of Bryancd, but yes, it is possible to do. I think the truth depends on one's point of view. Lucasfilm has said they don't have the original negatives, but from what I remember, there are other sources that are basically just as good which do exist, and which almost certainly were referenced by Lowry Digital for the 2004 DVD release. There may even be a 2K or 4K scan of the film in its non-SE version.

The "can they" isn't the issue. The issue is "will they" and the only answer to that depends on the cost involved and the market for the material.

I'll get back to this in a bit.

This.

Multiple fan-edits are becoming more popular than the official stuff. That speaks volumes.



Lucasfilm says the original negative cannot be pieced back together? Whatever. This is the same company that still has individual elements from optically-composited shots they did when Gerald Ford was president.

Even if that was true ... the Blu-Ray's color timing alone is bad enough to justify using a 2nd-generation print to fix it.

And before that, fans were already griping that the SE CGI work alone was bad enough to justify using a 2nd-generation print to undo that.


No other movie has such a crazy situation with so much fanbase and yet such crappy versions for sale. Nothing else comes close.

Except these fan-edits use the same crappy blu-rays as a source.

And fix the color timing...

This is accurate. Fan edits tend to play with the color timing, too. But I really can't think of any other film of this kind that has gone through edits of this kind, which so irritate a portion of the fanbase. Probably because any edits to other films are put out alongside the original versions (or some cleaned up original version), whereas Lucas' dictate from when he ran the show was "Those versions are no longer to be sold."


So, here's the bottom line. Disney could make this happen. Disney could make this happen easily. They haven't, though, because they don't think there's a profitable market out there. How do I know they don't think there's a profitable market? Because they haven't done it yet. Disney isn't going to leave money on the table. They aren't stupid, and neither are the people running LFL. These folks know how to make money and how to take care of their IP. Arguably they're some of the best in the business at that kind of thing, treating the works they own with a degree of care that many other film studios don't bother with.

So, if Disney hasn't done so, you have to ask yourself why. The simple answer is "There aren't enough people clamoring for the original version to make it worthwhile." This might suggest that there will never be a market for such a move. Not so, in my opinion. And, actually, from my perspective at least, George Lucas' surprising shortsightedness in terms of media longevity is the culprit.

The DVD transfers are, if memory serves, based off of 2K scans that Lowry Digital took to make them back in 2004. Those 2K scans still serve as "masters" for the blu-rays, so the source material is, at best, 2K. The Special Edition material, though, was done natively at 1080p. Meaning that the 2K scans were all converted down to 1080p, at which point Lucasfilm's in-house folks began adding stuff, all at 1080p. Because this stuff is digital, rather than based on analog sources, there is literally no way to wring more resolution out of the picture, short of using some kind of interpolating software that "guesses" at what would occupy the pixels "in between" what's on the screen, were you to blow it up. (This is also why the goofy "enhance...enhance" bit on various CSI shows is so stupid.)

Meanwhile, consumer home theater products have been humming along nicely for several years. It looks as though consumer displays are basically skipping past the 2K point, and going to 4K (with 8K as a distant/expensive-but-possible format as well). The thing is, displays don't really matter, if there's no content for them to display. If everyone is still using blu-rays at 1080p, then there's no reason to upgrade, because why buy a TV that can't show anything better than 1080p if you don't watch anything better than 1080p? Enter the streaming services. As disc-based media is gradually dying off, streaming services are on the rise. And the services are now starting to use "UltraHD" -- 4K streams -- as a marketing point. This means that now you actually have quite a bit to watch on your 4K display!

Into this mix, we throw the Star Wars films. Now, the prequels were all shot at 1080p, so they're never gonna get any better looking, again, short of interpolation software. But the OT? That you could actually get more visual clarity from. This, in turn, could prompt Disney/LFL to rescan the source material for transfer to 4K home resolution (either with a 4K disc or 4K stream, or both). This would also necessitate revisiting the various CGI elements added as part of the SE...but it would ALSO mean that someone, somewhere, has scanned in a 4K (actually, probably higher if they're smart) version of the OOT -- without SE elements.

At that point, it becomes a lot more feasible to release the OOT to the market...because you'll basically have to recreate the OOT to recreate the SEs. So...might as well sell it as part of some $200 mega-set of films, like a 9- or 12-disc boxed set, or some package deal for downloading. And let's be honest here: who among us wouldn't HAPPILY pay that amount just to get a copy of the OOT? I know I sure would! I suspect Disney knows this market exists, but it just isn't big enough to warrant spending the money now to release a version now that will be obsolete the instant it hits the streets. It makes more sense to future-proof, scan the OOT in at 8K, keep a copy at 4K for distribution, and then use another copy as the basis for your redone SE, and release it all in a few years.


Oh, by the way, that gets us to the next big hurdle: the licensing deals.

20th Century Fox owns Star Wars (1977). It holds a license to distribute on the remaining films, I think, until...actually this year, maybe. Might be 2020. I can't remember. But it's a license that can revert to Disney/LFL, and likely will. NOTHING will be done before those licensing deals end, because why the hell would Disney/LFL want to spend money to rescan a film...only to be forced to split profits with Fox? Screw that! They'd rather keep their money, or at least as much of it as possible, and they don't have to lift a finger to get back 5/6 of the original films. After that point, it's just another licensing deal so that Disney can either buy out the license for ANH, or ensure that Fox gets its cut.


So, bottom line, this CAN happen, but almost certainly WON'T happen until several years from now. But after that point, I think it's possible, even likely, that we'll see the OOT available again for home release, and probably in some "archival" format.
 
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Solo4114 I believe it's 2020 for the rights reversion for everything but ANH. With the success of TFA and now R1, I'm actually inclined to think that Fox will NEVER release there in perpetuity distribution rights via a sale but instead will engage in profit sharing with Disney. As you point out it's an evergreen revenue source so no reason to take a big check now and then not participate down the road.
 
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Next year would be the ideal time......40 years & all that,......PLUS with the home release of Rogue One,....no better time for a re-release......but I'm hoping for some deal between Fox & Disney for that nice cleaned up scan

Mike Verta has had his meeting with Disney,....& he's now saying "no comment".......but he can say it went well,...positive outcome

J
 
@Solo4114 I believe it's 2020 for the rights reversion for everything but ANH. With the success of TFA and now R1, I'm actually inclined to think that Fox will NEVER release there in perpetuity distribution rights via a sale but instead will engage in profit sharing with Disney. As you point out it's an evergreen revenue source so no reason to take a big check now and then not participate down the road.

Yeah, that'd make sense, too. Revenue sharing is likely preferable to Fox, since interest in the films will be ongoing. It'd have to be a pretty big chunk of change to get them to say "Sure, we'll take that up front." But the bottom line is that some kind of deal can be worked out.

Next year would be the ideal time......40 years & all that,......PLUS with the home release of Rogue One,....no better time for a re-release......but I'm hoping for some deal between Fox & Disney for that nice cleaned up scan

Mike Verta has had his meeting with Disney,....& he's now saying "no comment".......but he can say it went well,...positive outcome

J

Yeah, I'm praying to the Force and all the angels that there's a big to-do for the 40th which includes the OOT on blu-ray. They can even make it part of a huge box set full of crap I already own, I don't care. Hurt me, Disney, hurt me with love.

The 40th won't happen. 40th of Empire, maybe. Again, nothing's likely to happen before 2020, or whenever the rights to the 5 films revert.
 
The DVD transfers are, if memory serves, based off of 2K scans that Lowry Digital took to make them back in 2004. Those 2K scans still serve as "masters" for the blu-rays, so the source material is, at best, 2K. The Special Edition material, though, was done natively at 1080p. Meaning that the 2K scans were all converted down to 1080p, at which point Lucasfilm's in-house folks began adding stuff, all at 1080p. Because this stuff is digital, rather than based on analog sources, there is literally no way to wring more resolution out of the picture, short of using some kind of interpolating software that "guesses" at what would occupy the pixels "in between" what's on the screen, were you to blow it up. (This is also why the goofy "enhance...enhance" bit on various CSI shows is so stupid.)

The dvds used a 2K master from the early 90's and they have not made a new one.
Mike Verta has had his meeting with Disney,....& he's now saying "no comment".......but he can say it went well,...positive outcome

J

Positive, you say? :D
Where the heck did you find out about the outcome? I have tried to find ANY information since that meeting happened months ago.

"positive" sounds like awesome news to me. Even if it will take years before we the public can buy it.
 
The dvds used a 2K master from the early 90's and they have not made a new one.


Positive, you say? :D
Where the heck did you find out about the outcome? I have tried to find ANY information since that meeting happened months ago.

"positive" sounds like awesome news to me. Even if it will take years before we the public can buy it.

On his site Term,....he has to do a joint pitch in Feb,....Fox & Disney

He can't say any more

http://www.starwarslegacy.com/archive/

On his forum someone had posted a quote of Gareth Edwards,....hoping it was Verta's Legacy Restoration,....but it looks like it's the Reliance Medias 4K print:

In a recent interview with Little White Lies, director Gareth Edwards talks about the process of making his Star Wars spin-off Rogue One. Before the cameras rolled, he sat down at Lucasfilm HQ and watched the 1977 original, A New Hope - and not just any old DVD or Blu-ray of a New Hope, either, but a restored, 4K print:

"On day one, we were in Lucasfilm in San Francisco with Industrial Light and Magic and John Knowles, our supervisor, he said that they’ve got a brand new 4K restoration print of A New Hope – it had literally just been finished. He suggested we sit and watch it."

What is interesting is that the Reliance Media clean-up had been don a good few years ago now,...whilst Lucas was still there,.....so unless the Reliance version needed tweeks

J
 
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The 40th won't happen. 40th of Empire, maybe. Again, nothing's likely to happen before 2020, or whenever the rights to the 5 films revert.

If we're talking about the whole trilogy you might have a point. That said, Disney and Fox had no problem working together to re-release the Special Editions at least once already, much to the surprise of certain 'experts' here.

However, even if Disney wanted all the home distribution profits, they have no reason to hold off a release of the original 1977 Star Wars if the claims about Fox's perpetual rights are accurate. (I doubt anyone here has actually seen any of the contracts.)

I fully expect Disney to make a big deal about the 40th anniversary. There really isn't a better time to re-release the original movie. I don't think it's a coincidence either that Rogue One was chosen as the first anthology film leading into the anniversary.

With recurring news articles based on rumors it's finally happening, John Landis's insider anecdote about a new release and various other hints, I'd be more surprised at this point if it DOESN'T happen by May next year.


Also, unless someone has some current market research to point to, any claim about the popularity or profitability of a new release is without merit.
 
On his site Term,....he has to do a joint pitch in Feb,....Fox & Disney

He can't say any more

http://www.starwarslegacy.com/archive/

On his forum someone had posted a quote of Gareth Edwards,....hoping it was Verta's Legacy Restoration,....but it looks like it's the Reliance Medias 4K print:

In a recent interview with Little White Lies, director Gareth Edwards talks about the process of making his Star Wars spin-off Rogue One. Before the cameras rolled, he sat down at Lucasfilm HQ and watched the 1977 original, A New Hope - and not just any old DVD or Blu-ray of a New Hope, either, but a restored, 4K print:

"On day one, we were in Lucasfilm in San Francisco with Industrial Light and Magic and John Knowles, our supervisor, he said that they’ve got a brand new 4K restoration print of A New Hope – it had literally just been finished. He suggested we sit and watch it."

What is interesting is that the Reliance Media clean-up had been don a good few years ago now,...whilst Lucas was still there,.....so unless the Reliance version needed tweeks

J

Very well aware of the Reliance Media version, and its age, and how its not that great. It doesn't need tweaks, it needs a toss in the bin. :p

I really hope that pitch goes well.
 
Very well aware of the Reliance Media version, and its age, and how its not that great. It doesn't need tweaks, it needs a toss in the bin. :p

I really hope that pitch goes well.

One quick point of clarity: Reliance Media does AMAZING work generally. Take a look at their restoration of North by Northwest if you're curious. Or their run on the Bond blu-rays. They're absolutely gorgeous.

Reliance was not to blame for the shoddy quality of the 2004 DVDs, nor of the later Blu-ray release. That's all old-school Lucasfilm.
 
One quick point of clarity: Reliance Media does AMAZING work generally. Take a look at their restoration of North by Northwest if you're curious. Or their run on the Bond blu-rays. They're absolutely gorgeous.

Reliance was not to blame for the shoddy quality of the 2004 DVDs, nor of the later Blu-ray release. That's all old-school Lucasfilm.

Well aware of that as well :p that honor goes to Lowry Digital.

I have a heap of Bond blurays and while they look better than the dvds, they did go a little nuts with the digital noise reduction. Reliance Media is the best "official" restoration work. Buuut seeing as how everything is relative, when compared to Mike Verta's Legacy version it is no longer on top. ;)

Their restoration reel is indeed impressive :)
 
Well aware of that as well :p that honor goes to Lowry Digital.

I have a heap of Bond blurays and while they look better than the dvds, they did go a little nuts with the digital noise reduction. Reliance Media is the best "official" restoration work. Buuut seeing as how everything is relative, when compared to Mike Verta's Legacy version it is no longer on top. ;)

Their restoration reel is indeed impressive :)

Uh...Reliance is Lowry by virtue of having purchased Lowry a few years ago. So, Lowry/Reliance are responsible for some awesome restorations. The Star Wars hack job that we saw was all Lucasfilm. I do agree that DNR on some of their stuff is a bit high, but it's still the best out there for commercially available products.

We'll see if Mike's restoration ever gets picked up. I'd be surprised if it did, though.
 
Uh...Reliance is Lowry by virtue of having purchased Lowry a few years ago. So, Lowry/Reliance are responsible for some awesome restorations. The Star Wars hack job that we saw was all Lucasfilm. I do agree that DNR on some of their stuff is a bit high, but it's still the best out there for commercially available products.

We'll see if Mike's restoration ever gets picked up. I'd be surprised if it did, though.

Yarp, but they didn't own them when they did their automated crap "restoration" of the OT. Unless you prefer Vader with a pink lightsaber :p

Stranger things have happened. We can only hope the powers to be makes the right decision. I did find Mike's thread talking about the news :thumbsup
 
So, bottom line, this CAN happen, but almost certainly WON'T happen until several years from now. But after that point, I think it's possible, even likely, that we'll see the OOT available again for home release, and probably in some "archival" format.

I think they definitely will do it, that's not even a question for me. But the question of WHEN is anyones guess for all the reasons Solo and Brian brought up. There are hurdles.


Also, it's important to remember that Disney is a different animal from other studios, especially Lucas. For one thing, they wont consider any version "Sacred", so that's not a barrier.

But also, more than other companies, Disney plays the long game. They've even been known to discontinue movies for years at a time just so the next version can hit with a bang. But in the past, they've done big re-releases with new generations. With their own classics they use a vault system that many sites seem to suggest is one a 7 year cycle, but when you look at it, they've deviated from this more often than not in favor of not stepping on their own toes: they don't like to re-release too much around the same time.

So for the question of "When" there are just too many factors involved to make a real guess. waiting a few years for a better time is definitely not something they would be shy about though. This is not a company that thinks 2 years ahead, this is a company that thinks 10-25 years ahead.

They have a virtually unlimited number of tent pole Star Wars events coming though...with new movies each year, an anniversary, new Star Wars Land, changing Epcot...they wont have any trouble finding a time to mark a new release occasion.
 

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