Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Post-release)
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harrisonp
Sr Member
my favorite part of that scene is when Doomsday is going to explode and Batman jumps down on the ground under some debris to hide. It was reassuring that at the very least they were acknowledging his mortality and having been outmatched.
padmik
New Member
I enjoyed the movie so much, I pre-ordered the Ultimate Collection the second I got back (mainly bc they cut out Jena Malone and I've been dying to know who she played). I understand most of the criticism people had, especially the editing at the beginning of the movie. They tried to cram in a lot and I'm sure the Ultimate Collection will fix it. I also thought it was weird timing when Diana was looking through the JL files, but I didn't mind it much since I was trying to absorb as much information as possible since I knew I wouldn't see this movie again until it came out on DVD/BR.
And I can see why some people liked Jesse and others didn't. I've noticed that non-comic books (or minor Superman fans) really enjoyed Jesse while more hardcore fans were yay or nay about him. I'm not into Superman so I did enjoy his performance as Lex. Though, whenever he went over the top, it did pull me from the scene.
Surprisingly, I didn't mind Batman "killing" anyone though I saw it as self defense since he only shot back after the bad guys started shooting first. Tho, tbh, I'm not a huge Bruce fan (I'm more into Batkids) so I think I could just personally care less, but that may be an issue if they do the Red Hood story for Batman's solo film. But Bruce was retired so he may go back to being more careful about how he fights bad guys next time.
I think I loved most of the things in this movie. It got me pumped for DCEU so I think it's safe to say it did it's job for me at least.
And I can see why some people liked Jesse and others didn't. I've noticed that non-comic books (or minor Superman fans) really enjoyed Jesse while more hardcore fans were yay or nay about him. I'm not into Superman so I did enjoy his performance as Lex. Though, whenever he went over the top, it did pull me from the scene.
Surprisingly, I didn't mind Batman "killing" anyone though I saw it as self defense since he only shot back after the bad guys started shooting first. Tho, tbh, I'm not a huge Bruce fan (I'm more into Batkids) so I think I could just personally care less, but that may be an issue if they do the Red Hood story for Batman's solo film. But Bruce was retired so he may go back to being more careful about how he fights bad guys next time.
I think I loved most of the things in this movie. It got me pumped for DCEU so I think it's safe to say it did it's job for me at least.
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Chicagovader
Sr Member
Batman has not carried a gun in the comics since 1941! in the Batman year two story from the 1980's he was going to shoot Joe Chill the man who murdered his parents but didn't do it, but he was hardly swinging around with a gun. So not sure where you're getting your info on the comics version of Batman, he hasn't wielded a gun in 75 years.
Deric
Sr Member
I liked it however I feel the whole doomsday part could have been eliminated. Have him going to the ship to find out about Superman maybe start the cloning sequence or whatever and just put that whole mess in the next installment. Just end it with Luther going to jail and maybe leave Dooms to a teaser at the end. The only thing that bugged me about luther was he killed his assistant other than that.
Batman I really liked. I admit I had my doubts. I also like how they explained his voice changer. I'm fine with him killing. Batman has done that in all the movies either directly or indirectly. Didn't even the 66 film have Adam West and Robin hitting people and they popped or exploded?
I understand why they showed Bruce's beginning but I think they should have done a recap on Supes as well just to show the two. Also do it all in quick cuts instead of dragging it out.
The portal thing with Lois warning throw that in the trash. Move the Justice League stuff up a bit and not during the fight. My only issue with the fight really is that Batman wouldn't listen. All in all it didn't seem to drag on like MoS did. It was just a bit muddy with all the points they were trying to hit.
Still it was entertaining. Supermans internal conflict really showed through though. I did enjoy that aspect of it.
Batman I really liked. I admit I had my doubts. I also like how they explained his voice changer. I'm fine with him killing. Batman has done that in all the movies either directly or indirectly. Didn't even the 66 film have Adam West and Robin hitting people and they popped or exploded?
I understand why they showed Bruce's beginning but I think they should have done a recap on Supes as well just to show the two. Also do it all in quick cuts instead of dragging it out.
The portal thing with Lois warning throw that in the trash. Move the Justice League stuff up a bit and not during the fight. My only issue with the fight really is that Batman wouldn't listen. All in all it didn't seem to drag on like MoS did. It was just a bit muddy with all the points they were trying to hit.
Still it was entertaining. Supermans internal conflict really showed through though. I did enjoy that aspect of it.
This was too soon to do the death of Superman. What angers me is that they squandered the story just to build sympathy for a character maligned by fans in the last movie. His death would have had more emotional impact and meaning if Superman were established and a hero to Earth ... but they chose to play that card now. What a waste.
Mektar
Sr Member
been few days now after ive seen it and got to think back on the movie. Ofc i did enjoy it alot even after having seen the bad reviews. This movie is def not perfect tho and there were def some things that should have either been different or not in there at all. Batman killing people was a bit too much, the use of a gun is a no for me, Playing out the doomsday story unnecessary. If they wanted to have some sort of super villain to fight the trinity i would have preferred a clone of superman (bizarro) seeing as now they cant use the doomsday story. The doomsday story should have been saved for when superman is established as the greatest hero. Now he was hated by many and all of a sudden they all mourn over his passing. so unfortenatly its a missing oppurtunity to use one of the best stories for a stand alone superman.
I did however like the overall portrayal of ben affleck as both bruce and batman, Lex wasnt as bad as i thought and some scenes were really good be it not the version that i was hoping for. Wonder woman for the most part made me thrilled to see her stand alone and getting to know more about her. Ofc the cameos were great for the sake of seeing them on screen, especially aquaman but then again i dont know if we really needed to see it the way we did.
Overall still think their of to a good start to get their franchise rolling and hoping that future movies will deliver and finally get us out of the dawn and into the light
I did however like the overall portrayal of ben affleck as both bruce and batman, Lex wasnt as bad as i thought and some scenes were really good be it not the version that i was hoping for. Wonder woman for the most part made me thrilled to see her stand alone and getting to know more about her. Ofc the cameos were great for the sake of seeing them on screen, especially aquaman but then again i dont know if we really needed to see it the way we did.
Overall still think their of to a good start to get their franchise rolling and hoping that future movies will deliver and finally get us out of the dawn and into the light
Well, here is Zacks thought process around the "death" of Superman and the formation of the JL;
"Snyder’s divisive movie climaxes with the man of steel apparently dead following his battle with the Kryptonian monstrosity Doomsday and a nuclear blast, although ripples of anti-gravity energy from his coffin suggest a resurrection is imminent. The American film-maker said he thought it was important for Superman to take some time out from the story.
“I wanted Bruce Wayne to build the Justice League,” Snyder told Entertainment Weekly. “With Superman around, it’s a different conversation when you create the Justice League, right? It’s like, ‘Me and Superman, we want to make a Justice League.’ … Bruce Wayne having to go out and find these seven samurai by himself, that’s a lot more interesting of a premise.”
Certainly that's an interesting take on it based on the fact he isn't supposed to be writing the first one..... and I'll be curious as to the degree of influence he will be allowed to have on the rest of the series or if he is simply following studio "orders" . Much of the criticism being levelled here feels very much like that that was hurled at "Age of Ultron" which many felt also tried to achieve too much too quickly for one film. I've got to admit after repeated viewings on DVD I appreciate that film a great deal more now.
Zack S is directing JL pt1,directing and writing JL pt2, and is exec producer on Suicide Squad,Wonder Woman, The Flash and Aquaman. But given that the bulk of the flack has been pointedly aimmed towards his handling of the script and understanding of the characters the tester for me and perhaps WB will be how well Suicide Squad performs later on this year, and how hard the BvS BO nosedives after the initial high openning.
At the moment SS seems to have a very different vibe from anything delivered in the DC universe this far and seems more of a wilder more carefree gamble . If it is a hit with both BO and critically then perhaps we will see a drift away from the darker Snyder DC universe.
I'm very hopeful for it, as much as I was for "Deadpool" ,which at a cost of $58 million and a worldwide BO of $745 million will make alot of studio execs consider whether chucking huge amounts of dosh at the screen via the VFX department may be the way to go with every superhero blockbuster. Better scripts from writers that are fans of the characters perhaps? Enter the Ben???? I would hope so.
I won't see BvS for a couple of weeks ,at least until the holidays are finished and the cinema is quiet again. If not then, then perhaps the promised R rated version of BvS might be a slightly better option, but then again I didn't find the extended "Watchmen" was particularly improved by the added footage.
I think the problem for WB is that they bought into Snyders comic credentials early based on the success of "300". His stylization was perfect for that film, a good fit for "Watchmen"given its very dark comic tones, but crucially it feels a little too serious and deadbeat for his version of Superman and the DC universe, with the exception perhaps of Batman.
I didn't hate MoS in fact I found that update entertianing, far more so than "Superman Returns" which sends me to sleep in minutes .Snyder does deadly serious and grim very effectively, but his ability to bring humour and humanity to his scripts and more essentially the characters in them is something that he lacks particularly with the character of Superman. Yet its something that the script writers and team at Marvel rarely get wrong.
"Snyder’s divisive movie climaxes with the man of steel apparently dead following his battle with the Kryptonian monstrosity Doomsday and a nuclear blast, although ripples of anti-gravity energy from his coffin suggest a resurrection is imminent. The American film-maker said he thought it was important for Superman to take some time out from the story.
“I wanted Bruce Wayne to build the Justice League,” Snyder told Entertainment Weekly. “With Superman around, it’s a different conversation when you create the Justice League, right? It’s like, ‘Me and Superman, we want to make a Justice League.’ … Bruce Wayne having to go out and find these seven samurai by himself, that’s a lot more interesting of a premise.”
Certainly that's an interesting take on it based on the fact he isn't supposed to be writing the first one..... and I'll be curious as to the degree of influence he will be allowed to have on the rest of the series or if he is simply following studio "orders" . Much of the criticism being levelled here feels very much like that that was hurled at "Age of Ultron" which many felt also tried to achieve too much too quickly for one film. I've got to admit after repeated viewings on DVD I appreciate that film a great deal more now.
Zack S is directing JL pt1,directing and writing JL pt2, and is exec producer on Suicide Squad,Wonder Woman, The Flash and Aquaman. But given that the bulk of the flack has been pointedly aimmed towards his handling of the script and understanding of the characters the tester for me and perhaps WB will be how well Suicide Squad performs later on this year, and how hard the BvS BO nosedives after the initial high openning.
At the moment SS seems to have a very different vibe from anything delivered in the DC universe this far and seems more of a wilder more carefree gamble . If it is a hit with both BO and critically then perhaps we will see a drift away from the darker Snyder DC universe.
I'm very hopeful for it, as much as I was for "Deadpool" ,which at a cost of $58 million and a worldwide BO of $745 million will make alot of studio execs consider whether chucking huge amounts of dosh at the screen via the VFX department may be the way to go with every superhero blockbuster. Better scripts from writers that are fans of the characters perhaps? Enter the Ben???? I would hope so.
I won't see BvS for a couple of weeks ,at least until the holidays are finished and the cinema is quiet again. If not then, then perhaps the promised R rated version of BvS might be a slightly better option, but then again I didn't find the extended "Watchmen" was particularly improved by the added footage.
I think the problem for WB is that they bought into Snyders comic credentials early based on the success of "300". His stylization was perfect for that film, a good fit for "Watchmen"given its very dark comic tones, but crucially it feels a little too serious and deadbeat for his version of Superman and the DC universe, with the exception perhaps of Batman.
I didn't hate MoS in fact I found that update entertianing, far more so than "Superman Returns" which sends me to sleep in minutes .Snyder does deadly serious and grim very effectively, but his ability to bring humour and humanity to his scripts and more essentially the characters in them is something that he lacks particularly with the character of Superman. Yet its something that the script writers and team at Marvel rarely get wrong.
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Solo4114
Master Member
Bottom line, he's a Batman fanboy who doesn't understand the character of Superman or how the Justice League actually works, or, for that matter, the character of Batman outside of Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.
That could well be, actually, but it ignores the fact that all of the storytelling work was already done for him. All he was doing was basically adapting it to the screen. Same story with Watchmen, which -- the ending aside -- I thought was a pretty solid adaptation. Now, I'm not saying the man doesn't know how to run the business of making a movie, but he's a crap storyteller in my opinion, at least based on what I've seen from him, when someone hasn't already handed him the material.
To be fair, I don't think we can really know for certain what Suicide Squad is or will be. The true tell of this is the two TOTALLY DIFFERENT trailers that have come out. "I Started a Joke" vs. "Bohemian Rhapsody" are basically two different movies entirely. One is the same old grimdark crap we've seen to date, and the other is a more "We're totally ripping off Guardians of the Galaxy" with the "Team of misfits" a la the Dirty Dozen. I like the idea of that second one a lot better, but we really just don't know. A lot will depend on editing and soundtrack choices, which the two trailers demonstrate perfectly.
hikarub
Well-Known Member
I still have major problems with how and when Luthor deduced both Batman and Superman's secret identities. Although it never made it clear exactly when he discovered who they really were, it seems he knew about Bruce at least since the World Engine incident 2 years prior as he had all of Wally's cheques returned with those messages scrawled on them. And at the end of the movie, Lex goes to prison. Isn't Bruce at least worried that Lex will reveal his secret to anyone who might listen?
The encrypted data was way too convenient. It was like Lex was planning to bring these heroes together himself or something...it was too neatly organized (I don't know how else to describe it). And was that Flashpoint Flash who showed up to warn Bruce about the future?
So, the coffin that Superman was buried in was empty? We see Clark's body in Smallville so that means Superman wasn't buried in Metropolis (the scene did seem to imply that both funerals were being held at the same time). Wouldn't someone have thought it was weird to bury an empty casket? Was it weighted down so none of the soldiers that carried it would notice? For someone as beloved as Superman (I think they were going for that sentiment in the end) wouldn't it have made sense to have had some sort of wake? I'm sure some people would have expected to view the body. Surely some heads of state or even POTUS would have been at the funeral.
:confused
The encrypted data was way too convenient. It was like Lex was planning to bring these heroes together himself or something...it was too neatly organized (I don't know how else to describe it). And was that Flashpoint Flash who showed up to warn Bruce about the future?
So, the coffin that Superman was buried in was empty? We see Clark's body in Smallville so that means Superman wasn't buried in Metropolis (the scene did seem to imply that both funerals were being held at the same time). Wouldn't someone have thought it was weird to bury an empty casket? Was it weighted down so none of the soldiers that carried it would notice? For someone as beloved as Superman (I think they were going for that sentiment in the end) wouldn't it have made sense to have had some sort of wake? I'm sure some people would have expected to view the body. Surely some heads of state or even POTUS would have been at the funeral.
:confused
It's actually not that hard to find out Bruce's identity, there was a Batman Beyond episode where Waller talked about it. Basically, Batman tends to leave DNA from time to time, mostly blood, so if you have the ressources and are dedicated enough, you can analyse the sample, run it through a database. Now I don't believe Bruce would be in a database, he's got no reason to, but once you have the sample you can dress a genetic profile and compare it to whoever you're suspicious of, until you find a match.
Superman was easier, he's just too sloppy when it comes to Lois. Why most people don't make the connection is because they're not expecting Clark to be Superman I think.
Regarding the empty casket, it was indeed empty in the Metropolis funerals, I think Bruce and Diana smuggled the body to Smallville and just let the military believe the body was destroyed or something. They do make empty funerals for MIA soldiers even if they couldn't retrieve the body, don't they ? Perhaps Swanwick helped a bit a bit too, he was keen to Superman.
Superman was easier, he's just too sloppy when it comes to Lois. Why most people don't make the connection is because they're not expecting Clark to be Superman I think.
Regarding the empty casket, it was indeed empty in the Metropolis funerals, I think Bruce and Diana smuggled the body to Smallville and just let the military believe the body was destroyed or something. They do make empty funerals for MIA soldiers even if they couldn't retrieve the body, don't they ? Perhaps Swanwick helped a bit a bit too, he was keen to Superman.
Snikt
Sr Member
I had a thought... What if the Knightmare sequence wasn't just a paranoia dream for Bruce, but a warning from the future? Think about it... There's no logical reason why he would come up with a dream scenario that so obviously points to Darkseid, nor is there a reason for a warning from Flash regarding Lois being the key and him having to save her. My thought is that they are going to use the story of Darkseid and Superman working together and combine it with the Injustice storyline, wIth Darkseid being behind the brainwashing that makes him kill Lois instead of Joker, which causes Superman to team up with Darkseid to bring order to the planet.
Snikt
Sr Member
I would rage vomit and never watch another DC or Zack Snyder(which Im already doing) ever again.
CharlesHouse
Active Member
Except for Dark Knight Returns (which this movie is referencing the two times he uses a gun), Flashpoint (yes it's elseworld), Final Crisis, and Zero Year.
Unless you mean guns that don't shoot bullets, as the sniper rifle he used didn't, but instead shoot tracking devices or other electronics. Then, there's lots of comics, as well as Dark Knight and Rises.
Unless you mean guns that are on the Batmobile, Batwing, or Batpod, then there's many comics, the 1989 film and Dark Knight.
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Aren't you doing that already?
Chicagovader
Sr Member
I'm strictly talking about the comics the movies always get it wrong. Dark knight Returns isn't part of the Batman comics time line, guess you could say it's the first elseworlds title, even in that he wounds a thug with another thugs weapon and the guns in the Batmobile were firing rubber bullets. My true meaning would be that he doesn't use lethal force in the comics and hasn't since 1941. The elseworlds stuff doesn't count as it's a completely different take on existing characters that's usually confined to a one shot story, and yes I know some of them have had had sequels.
CharlesHouse
Active Member
I think discrediting all previous movies but then expecting this one to hold up to the standards others don't is hypocritical. The two times he uses a gun in this movie are taken straight from the same comic. Final Crisis and Zero Year were both at one point canon.
DuneMuadDib
Sr Member
There's a huge difference between Batman picking up a gun as a "once in a lifetime exception" to shoot Darkseid in an attempt to literally save all of creation and just mowing down dozens of goons with his car or plane or a gun he grabbed off one of them because his costume is riding up on him.
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