Fantastic Four
- Thread starter Vivek
- Start date
Re: The Fantastic Four
In this case, I like its use for a team logo, as each strokes symbolizes one of them, where either IV or 4 wouldn't.
That's one of the things about the X-verse movies that bothers me to this day -- they are so hit and miss on this point. They nailed Magneto and Wolverine and Xavier and Beast. I was pleasantly surprised by Iceman, and they eventually sorted out Shadowcat okay (even if I still wish they'd cast someone who looked a bit more Jewish -- it's a big part of who the character is)... But they utterly dropped the ball on Deadpool and Sabretooth and Gambit and Cyclops and Storm and Jean Grey and Angel. Of course, they utterly borked the third X-Men film.
They have no sense of continuity (Havok in First Class, anyone?), and no desire to try to hold onto any of the characters' important connections -- Nightcrawler and Mystique, for instance, or the fact that Storm was Egyptian and later lived in Kenya before being recruited by Chuck. I like Halle Berry as an actress, but she was all wrong for Storm. Should have been Iman. They seeded so many easter eggs in Stryker's computer desktops that never got followed up on, and look at all the pointless name-dropping there was in X3's "Brotherhood -- names just applied to random characters, with not even an attempt to make them representations of their comic selves.
The Wolverine movies are equally frustrating, because they get even closer to nailing it, and then the needle scrapes across the record.
Fox has wasted so many good actors, and good dialogue, on poorly-constructed stories and weak characters. The first X-Men movie was good, but was only a few easily-correctible-by-a-producer-who-cared elements away from being great. X2 was great, but was only a couple equally-preventable points away from being awesome. X3 is execrable. Origins was at about the same level as the first X-Men movie -- lots of potential and good moments, mixed with discordant notes. Wolverine was similarly analogous to X2. Shingen, Yukio, Mariko, Logan's angst... all wonderfully done. The whole final act? Huh-uh. I was so hopeful for First Class, and then they utterly ignored the timeline.
DOFP has been the only one I have thoroughly enjoyed from beginning to end (minus Famke Janssen as Jean Grey, but that dates back to X-Men). I'm hopng they don't choke on Apocalypse.
But as for FF? *deep breath* *sigh* I can't get excited about this. It looks like it might actually be a decent movie... but not FF. I approve of moving away from dated, '60s concepts. Unlike some in here, apparently, I love the revised origin in Ultimate FF (even if I think Doom's hooves are silly), and the dynamic and interplay between the characters in it, as well as that series take on how their powers work and why they ended up as they are (Air, Earth, Fire, Water, Metal). I'm sad there's no way Johnny Storm will be wanting to join the Avengers, let alone any of the other interrelationships with the rest of the Marvel Universe. And there are so many. FF and X-Men are so much a part of things, this schism makes me sick.
--Jonah
Actually, IIII has been an alternate to IV since Roman times. Putting "IV" on a sundial or clock face made people squirmy since they were the first two letters of Jupiter's name, and not something you were supposed to write. Much like how the Japanese words for "four" and "death" are pronounced the same, despite being different characters, and so a lot of the time they'll use a different word for four in its place so as to not invoke death. Yay superstition.
In this case, I like its use for a team logo, as each strokes symbolizes one of them, where either IV or 4 wouldn't.
That's one of the things about the X-verse movies that bothers me to this day -- they are so hit and miss on this point. They nailed Magneto and Wolverine and Xavier and Beast. I was pleasantly surprised by Iceman, and they eventually sorted out Shadowcat okay (even if I still wish they'd cast someone who looked a bit more Jewish -- it's a big part of who the character is)... But they utterly dropped the ball on Deadpool and Sabretooth and Gambit and Cyclops and Storm and Jean Grey and Angel. Of course, they utterly borked the third X-Men film.
They have no sense of continuity (Havok in First Class, anyone?), and no desire to try to hold onto any of the characters' important connections -- Nightcrawler and Mystique, for instance, or the fact that Storm was Egyptian and later lived in Kenya before being recruited by Chuck. I like Halle Berry as an actress, but she was all wrong for Storm. Should have been Iman. They seeded so many easter eggs in Stryker's computer desktops that never got followed up on, and look at all the pointless name-dropping there was in X3's "Brotherhood -- names just applied to random characters, with not even an attempt to make them representations of their comic selves.
The Wolverine movies are equally frustrating, because they get even closer to nailing it, and then the needle scrapes across the record.
Fox has wasted so many good actors, and good dialogue, on poorly-constructed stories and weak characters. The first X-Men movie was good, but was only a few easily-correctible-by-a-producer-who-cared elements away from being great. X2 was great, but was only a couple equally-preventable points away from being awesome. X3 is execrable. Origins was at about the same level as the first X-Men movie -- lots of potential and good moments, mixed with discordant notes. Wolverine was similarly analogous to X2. Shingen, Yukio, Mariko, Logan's angst... all wonderfully done. The whole final act? Huh-uh. I was so hopeful for First Class, and then they utterly ignored the timeline.
DOFP has been the only one I have thoroughly enjoyed from beginning to end (minus Famke Janssen as Jean Grey, but that dates back to X-Men). I'm hopng they don't choke on Apocalypse.
But as for FF? *deep breath* *sigh* I can't get excited about this. It looks like it might actually be a decent movie... but not FF. I approve of moving away from dated, '60s concepts. Unlike some in here, apparently, I love the revised origin in Ultimate FF (even if I think Doom's hooves are silly), and the dynamic and interplay between the characters in it, as well as that series take on how their powers work and why they ended up as they are (Air, Earth, Fire, Water, Metal). I'm sad there's no way Johnny Storm will be wanting to join the Avengers, let alone any of the other interrelationships with the rest of the Marvel Universe. And there are so many. FF and X-Men are so much a part of things, this schism makes me sick.
--Jonah
Watched the teaser.
As a generic movie, the trailer was great.
As a trailer for Fantastic Four, it really missed the mark.
As a generic movie, the trailer was great.
As a trailer for Fantastic Four, it really missed the mark.
Re: The Fantastic Four
This image of our characters looking at a blue beam emanating from the ground surrounded by pillars would have been neat if it hadn't reminded me of other works that ranged from mediocre to abysmal.
This image of our characters looking at a blue beam emanating from the ground surrounded by pillars would have been neat if it hadn't reminded me of other works that ranged from mediocre to abysmal.
Father
Sr Member
Re: The Fantastic Four
What's with the logo being square instead of a circle? Change just for the sake of change? I don't get it.
I agree... attractive young people. Rock monster (sans pants). I didn't see anything to indicate F4.
It's one thing to make a character a different race when his race really has no bearing on his background. But when two of the characters are normally siblings and you make one of them black... WTF? Again, change for the sake of change. Why not just make The Thing a black guy... and make his rock form obsidian?
This movie is going to blow... and... I'll still see it, if for no other reason than it's a super hero movie and I need to prove to myself I'm right about it sucking.[
QUOTE=Solo4114;3547670]EXACTLY.
Compare, for example, the difference between Spider-Man and, say, Thor. Both involve a character who is held back by their own internal dilemmas, but only one is truly compelling, in my opinion. With Spider-Man, it's basically assumed that he's awesome. The thing that holds him back from being awesome is his own self-doubt, which he ultimately has to learn to overcome. Basically, he has to learn that he's already awesome. By contrast, Thor starts off as a powerful braggart who actually has to learn that he isn't as awesome as he thinks.
Meanwhile, the Thor movies actually work the best because of the antagonists in the film, especially Loki, who presents an incredibly interesting character. One who is clearly a villain, but a villain we actually want to like. Sympathy for the devil, indeed. Thor's relationship with Loki ultimately is the audience's relationship. You see the redeeming aspects of his character, but you also see how his own demons make him turn from them. And yet, he can be a powerful, if reluctant, ally when absolutely needed. It's great stuff.
By contrast, Spider-Man is just...whiny and conflicted, until he can learn to be his awesome self. Yawn.[/QUOTE]
Apples and oranges though.
One character is a God. All of his family are Gods. He doesn't need to hide his identity from anyone. He's a grownup, albeit a bit of a spoiled, arrogant, not very humble grown-up. People worship him. His moments of humility are short lived.
One is an awkward, nerdy teen that gets super powers. He lives in a world that isn't full of super powered people (or Gods). He still has to make a living because he's not born into God-royalty. He uses his intellect to make better use of his new powers (web shooters). His vulnerability is his friends and loves ones so he has to hide his identity so his enemies can't hurt them. He's not a God. He still bleeds. He is indirectly responsible for the death of his adopted father. I think he's earned the right to be whiny and conflicted. For a teenager/20-something he has the weight of the world thrown on his shoulders. He lets loose and enjoys his powers but is still demonized by JJJ and the police at times despite doing good. He's a kid with an awesome secret... that alone takes great restraint. Who wouldn't want to tell al of their friends "Check out what I can do!!"
I've always thought Thor to be more of a bore than Spidey because Spidey has real world problems and lives in the real world.
What's with the logo being square instead of a circle? Change just for the sake of change? I don't get it.
I agree... attractive young people. Rock monster (sans pants). I didn't see anything to indicate F4.
It's one thing to make a character a different race when his race really has no bearing on his background. But when two of the characters are normally siblings and you make one of them black... WTF? Again, change for the sake of change. Why not just make The Thing a black guy... and make his rock form obsidian?
This movie is going to blow... and... I'll still see it, if for no other reason than it's a super hero movie and I need to prove to myself I'm right about it sucking.[
QUOTE=Solo4114;3547670]EXACTLY.
Compare, for example, the difference between Spider-Man and, say, Thor. Both involve a character who is held back by their own internal dilemmas, but only one is truly compelling, in my opinion. With Spider-Man, it's basically assumed that he's awesome. The thing that holds him back from being awesome is his own self-doubt, which he ultimately has to learn to overcome. Basically, he has to learn that he's already awesome. By contrast, Thor starts off as a powerful braggart who actually has to learn that he isn't as awesome as he thinks.
Meanwhile, the Thor movies actually work the best because of the antagonists in the film, especially Loki, who presents an incredibly interesting character. One who is clearly a villain, but a villain we actually want to like. Sympathy for the devil, indeed. Thor's relationship with Loki ultimately is the audience's relationship. You see the redeeming aspects of his character, but you also see how his own demons make him turn from them. And yet, he can be a powerful, if reluctant, ally when absolutely needed. It's great stuff.
By contrast, Spider-Man is just...whiny and conflicted, until he can learn to be his awesome self. Yawn.[/QUOTE]
Apples and oranges though.
One character is a God. All of his family are Gods. He doesn't need to hide his identity from anyone. He's a grownup, albeit a bit of a spoiled, arrogant, not very humble grown-up. People worship him. His moments of humility are short lived.
One is an awkward, nerdy teen that gets super powers. He lives in a world that isn't full of super powered people (or Gods). He still has to make a living because he's not born into God-royalty. He uses his intellect to make better use of his new powers (web shooters). His vulnerability is his friends and loves ones so he has to hide his identity so his enemies can't hurt them. He's not a God. He still bleeds. He is indirectly responsible for the death of his adopted father. I think he's earned the right to be whiny and conflicted. For a teenager/20-something he has the weight of the world thrown on his shoulders. He lets loose and enjoys his powers but is still demonized by JJJ and the police at times despite doing good. He's a kid with an awesome secret... that alone takes great restraint. Who wouldn't want to tell al of their friends "Check out what I can do!!"
I've always thought Thor to be more of a bore than Spidey because Spidey has real world problems and lives in the real world.
Father
Sr Member
Re: The Fantastic Four
For not being a Marvel-owned property and being one of the first real mainstream Marvel character movies, X-men has done pretty well despite some moments of stumbling and lapses in continuity.
I agree its biggest weakness has been continuity, but again, they probably never knew how many more they would be able to make and had no long term vision and direction like the Disney/Marvel movies do. They didn't script out all the way to DoFP and Age of Apocalypse and beyond. I think the surge in the Marvel franchise has allowed them more room to breathe and expand.
So, X-men started the Marvel train rolling and seems to be actively correcting some of the mistakes that were made with in previous films.
Compare Wolverine from the first X-men to Wolverine from DoFP or The Wolverine. His hair style doesn't seem to be as exaggerate as it started out. Jackman obviously takes the role more seriously and has done amazing things to increase his mass. The character and the actor have undoubtedly grown over the last 15 years.
Whether Marvel could have gotten the traction they needed without X-men getting the ball rolling is questionable. If X-men had not been made and Marvel was able to get X-men back I think things would be considerably different in the MCU movies now. Same with Spider-man.
I don't think anyone would argue that the Marvel movies still feel a little incomplete without some of the flagship characters able to join the fray. Who wouldn't have loved to see Spidey swinging in to help the Avengers. Or see Silver Surfer streak past while Star Lord is making his way to one of their destinations. Or Wolverine vs Hulk? SOOO much more could be done if they owned everything. Hopefully one day Disney (with their huge pile of money) will buy all of these properties back KNOWING they will without a doubt make it back.
For not being a Marvel-owned property and being one of the first real mainstream Marvel character movies, X-men has done pretty well despite some moments of stumbling and lapses in continuity.
I agree its biggest weakness has been continuity, but again, they probably never knew how many more they would be able to make and had no long term vision and direction like the Disney/Marvel movies do. They didn't script out all the way to DoFP and Age of Apocalypse and beyond. I think the surge in the Marvel franchise has allowed them more room to breathe and expand.
So, X-men started the Marvel train rolling and seems to be actively correcting some of the mistakes that were made with in previous films.
Compare Wolverine from the first X-men to Wolverine from DoFP or The Wolverine. His hair style doesn't seem to be as exaggerate as it started out. Jackman obviously takes the role more seriously and has done amazing things to increase his mass. The character and the actor have undoubtedly grown over the last 15 years.
Whether Marvel could have gotten the traction they needed without X-men getting the ball rolling is questionable. If X-men had not been made and Marvel was able to get X-men back I think things would be considerably different in the MCU movies now. Same with Spider-man.
I don't think anyone would argue that the Marvel movies still feel a little incomplete without some of the flagship characters able to join the fray. Who wouldn't have loved to see Spidey swinging in to help the Avengers. Or see Silver Surfer streak past while Star Lord is making his way to one of their destinations. Or Wolverine vs Hulk? SOOO much more could be done if they owned everything. Hopefully one day Disney (with their huge pile of money) will buy all of these properties back KNOWING they will without a doubt make it back.
comonbub
Sr Member
After seeing that trailer, I wanted to crawl back in my bed and cry. I watched it with an open mind but saw NOTHING in it that said Fantastic Four. The FF is not a dark film like Batman, it's the light like Superman. I hope this tanks because this is a property Fox needs to give back to Marvel. The only property they seem to be doing well with is the X-Men. The end felt like watching the Halo 3 trailer....And another thing...Why is the logo a square instead of a circle?
Cephus
Master Member
Superman isn't light anymore, Man of Steel was dark and it sucked. I'm really getting sick and tired of Hollywood taking established properties and trying to put a spin on them. Either use the property as it actually is or go do something different. They bought the rights to the properties for a reason.
Solo4114
Master Member
infymys
Sr Member
Oh please no. If Fox ever got a hold of Alpha Flight, Guardian/Vindicator would turn into the Canadian version of Iron Man and Sasquatch would be renamed as Big Foot or Yeti. Oh, and Puck would be like 7 feet tall.
Solo4114
Master Member
"Look, if Marvel can take an obscure team and turn it into gold, so can we! All we need is...an obscure team and an obscenely large F/X budget!"
Fantastic Four can be pretty dark actually.
"This man, this monster" is probably the most celebrated FF story in the history of the comic. Tragic stuff.
"This man, this monster" is probably the most celebrated FF story in the history of the comic. Tragic stuff.
So they are pulling heavily from the Ultimate line of the Marvel Universe. I'm ok with that since it seems to have worked for Avengers. And I'm guessing all the scenes with Ben without pants are probably right after the transformation. I'm sure his suit ripped apart. They showed Invisible Girl's force field in the trailer. And a very quick short of Human Torch. The only one I didn't catch was Reed stretching out. It looks a hell of a lot better than the last FF movies so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. For now.
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