A L I E N FIVE Neill Blomkamp's ALIEN movie

Fincher was always Fincher (including his music video work. I mean, come on, Aerosmith's Janie's Got a Gun is a pretty good video). It was the producers who wouldn't allow for him to be Fincher for Alien 3. And I'm betting they were kicking themselves in the ass when Se7en came out for not allowing him to do what he wanted.
I probably noticed him later than some folks.
I wasn't blown away by Se7en. Good but I thought it was a little too neat and predictable.
Fight Club is what really got to me. It's a nearly flawless film and one of my favorite films of all time.
 
I probably noticed him later than some folks.
I wasn't blown away by Se7en. Good but I thought it was a little too neat and predictable.
Fight Club is what really got to me. It's a nearly flawless film and one of my favorite films of all time.

Se7en and The Game caught my attention before Fight Club. But I think Fight Club truly propelled him, and its definitely one of my favorites. Another one of my favorites has to be Panic Room.
 
Why'd you guys hate it so much?

I mean, I didn't love it, but I didn't truly hate it.

Actually, I don't really remember it that well anymore.

God bless your memory :p

The question isn't so much why we hate it, but really why doesn't everyone hate it ;)
They basically ruined everything, and by everything I mean everything. Compare the xenomorph of the first film and the thing ADI designed for A:R. Garbage.

I have to mention, the Alien films on bluray. Isn't it a bit weird how the oldest film from 1979 looks the best out of the bunch and the newest film from 1997 looks like crap in comparison. Alien is crystal clear and Alien Resurrection is all blurry and fuzzy.
 
I concur on A:R. I didn't care for it at the time, and I still don't care for it now.

As much as I LOVE Alien and Aliens, (that's easy... what's not to love?) over the years Alien3 has become my secret favourite. Much of that intense feeling came after the assembly cut was made available... because it helped to make sense of some of the weird edits that i couldn't fathom before.

I LOVE the tragedy of it... ALL of it. I like that all of our heroes died... that's the statement I think this movie was making: that once Ripley (and co.) tangled with the Alien, death was inevitable. How else could Ripley's story end besides her being willing to pay ANY price so that these things would not win against her? It was warrior's end for Ripley and i loved it.

That isn't to say that i wouldn't embrace N.B.'s take as well... it was well established in Aliens that Ripley suffered from terrifying dreams after her encounter... so it is entirely plausible that once in the depth of hypersleep she might dream her own cataclysmic death. That would show that also in Ripley's mind her death seems inevitable. I'd like that as well... even though it would technically make Alien3 a dream, she still would have experienced those events... and (presumably) the depth of hypersleep would have made it very lucid and real, so the feelings associated with it would likely affect how she behaves upon waking.

I do hope that she doesn't dream A:R, though... or if she does, I hope it's one of those dreams that one forgets immediately upon waking :p
 
because the quip sounds better that way.
I first wrote "production" but it didn't have the same punch

But you're being disingenuous. Even blaming "production" would be inaccurate since the production on Alien3 was so good it beat the script in getting finished first. The only film in the series where the director was the problem is Ridley Scott for Prometheus. THERE is a film where it's director brought more problems than inginuity.
 
But you're being disingenuous. Even blaming "production" would be inaccurate since the production on Alien3 was so good it beat the script in getting finished first. The only film in the series where the director was the problem is Ridley Scott for Prometheus. THERE is a film where it's director brought more problems than inginuity.
Let's put it this way.
I can't blame Fincher for the failings of Alien 3.
However there is a stronger case to be concerned about Blomkamp's involvement with the franchise.
Alien does suffer from a series of abusive relationships.
Prometheus is actually good as a stand-alone sci-fi film ... but it's a disappointment as an Alien movie. (not unlike Into the Darkness which is a very good film but an embarassing treatment of Khan Noonien Singh's plotline.)
 
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Prometheus is actually good as a stand-alone sci-fi film ... but it's a disappointment as an Alien movie)


Therein, I suspect, lies the reason why so many were disappointed with Prometheus... it was never MEANT to be an Alien movie. Ridley Scott said as much several times before it's release... he didn't intend that it be a full fledged part of the Alien franchise. It was only supposed to briefly and tangentially touch on something we knew of before (The Space Jockey, for example) and then it was going to go in a completely different direction.

There are some who dislike it for completely different reasons, but it seems that many seem to say the same as the poster above: it wasn't a good ALIEN movie.

It wasn't supposed to be.
 
Therein, I suspect, lies the reason why so many were disappointed with Prometheus... it was never MEANT to be an Alien movie. Ridley Scott said as much several times before it's release... he didn't intend that it be a full fledged part of the Alien franchise.
It seems that notion, if true, was all but completely obscured prior to the film's release. If that's not the case then I'm probably guilty of willful ignorance in light of a new Ridley Alien film.

In any case I wasn't as appalled as some folks were. I still appreciate the film for what it is.
 
Why'd you guys hate it so much?

I mean, I didn't love it, but I didn't truly hate it.

Actually, I don't really remember it that well anymore.

I don't hate it as a standalone movie, but it was clearly made by people who had NO respect for or understanding of the series. Jeunet himself even admits to questioning why they wanted him to direct during the commentary. Add the fact that he barely understood any English at the time and you don't have the makings of a solid production. The onyl truly awful things in it are the way the Xenomorphs are handled (i.e. with en emphasis on slime and gore over psychosexual horror) and the hybrid at the end.

As for NB's adeptness at handling political messages... let' s be honest... the earlier films don't go beyond "Corporations are baaaad" in that respect.

it was never MEANT to be an Alien movie. Ridley Scott said as much several times before it's release... he didn't intend that it be a full fledged part of the Alien franchise.

But that's the thing.... it WAS intended as a full-on prequel at first. Then Sir Ridley somehow got the notion that he didn't want it to be, but it was to late to change EVERYTHING so it was turned into a "not really, but you feel the connection" nonsense. It's not LV426 but LV42-somthing else crap that breaks all the rules of keeping a sense of disbelief. You can't make an ALMOST-ALIEN movie with the Space Jockey, derelicts Giger-ship and other things. You either do it full-on or you give up the cool imagery of the Jockey and do something completely original. Part of me thinks that Ridley didn't want to do an Alien film but at the same time couldn't top the awesomeness of the Space Jockey so he tried to have his cake and eat it too. (And this is not even going into the completely inept script.) If you listen to the commentary, Sir Scott comes off as very arrogant about the whole thing- much more so than in the philosophical musings and filmcraft discussions of the Alien making-ofs. I actually didn't hate Prometheus at first... my dislike of it grew the ore I thought about it. It's a beautiful movie (as are all of Scott's films) but the script and story are awful.
 
Therein, I suspect, lies the reason why so many were disappointed with Prometheus... it was never MEANT to be an Alien movie. Ridley Scott said as much several times before it's release... he didn't intend that it be a full fledged part of the Alien franchise. It was only supposed to briefly and tangentially touch on something we knew of before (The Space Jockey, for example) and then it was going to go in a completely different direction.

There are some who dislike it for completely different reasons, but it seems that many seem to say the same as the poster above: it wasn't a good ALIEN movie.

It wasn't supposed to be.

Actually, it was absolutely supposed to be an Alien movie - Spaihts firsts draft commissioned by Ridley at their Scott Free meeting was all facehuggers, chestbursters, warriors, etc. - all the familiar foes from the previous films - AND it took place on LV-426. It wasn't until they got farther down the road did they try and divorce it from familiar territory. I can't confirm this, but I heard it was to avoid making certain "sequel" payouts to the original creative team of Hill, Giler, O'Bannon, etc. - that is was never really some new grand creative vision, but simply all about the money. The cold realities of Hollywood I guess...

There's links online, I'll try and find them.

First ‘Prometheus’ Writer Admits the Film Was Originally ‘Alien: Engineers’

http://screenrant.com/prometheus-story-alien-engineers/

Screenwriter Jon Spaihts On The Prometheus That Never Was

http://www.empireonline.com/interviews/interview.asp?IID=1563

How Alien: Engineers differs from Prometheus

http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/23428/how-alien-engineers-differs-from-prometheus

Jon Spaihts’ Alien Prequel

https://alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/11/23/jon-spaihts-alien-prequel/
 
As Willie's links above detail, the move away from the Alien prequel was dictated by the studio, not Scott, if Spaights is to be believed. It would be interesting to know if Spaights quit or was fired. He's a much better writer than Lindelof imho, and would likeley have produced a better final script. A lot of the bigger issues with the final version started with Spaights' ideas, but were mangled and severed from their original context. Even Lindelof's script is better than what appeared on screen, and only Scott can be blamed for that. I like the movie, but it's terribly frustrating that so many poor decisions were made by professional film-makers.

Alien 3 (Assembly Cut) I think is a damned good movie. I saw the theatrical on the day of release, and have never been so disappointed by a movie. I hated the Hicks/Newt deaths as much as the next guy.

Time and perspective, along with the restoration of the excised material, changed my mind. Unlike Willie, I simply cannot see how those characters could have translated into a third movie. As nihilistic and depressing as A3 is, I believe it's a logical and powerful end to Ripley's story. The WY stuff was played out. Game over, man.
 
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To me, the problem, as with the Jockey, is that the more you learn about a fascinating mystery, the less fascinating it becomes. WY are probably THE classic evil sci-fi corporation. We have great hints and suggestions as to who they are and what their agenda is, but the more you explain and show, the less interesting they become, until they are just another Bond villain. The machinations of WY are never going to live up to our imaginations, just like the Jedi didn't.

To me, the Alien series is Ripley vs The Beast. Everything else is background, no matter how well developed it is. An example - Aliens is one of my favourite movies of all time and a genius concept for a follow-up to Alien. Nevertheless, I kinda hate the aliens as bugs. That exploration of their life-cycle (which was necessary for the story Cameron wanted to tell) seriously reduces the perfect, utterley alien life form we encounter in the first movie, that plays on our imagination.

Now, I'm not saying I wish Aliens hadn't been made, that 'reduction' was worth it, but the further down the line you go, the more dilute it gets, which is basically my feelings about WY.
 
Now, I'm not saying I wish Aliens hadn't been made, that 'reduction' was worth it, but the further down the line you go, the more dilute it gets, which is basically my feelings about WY.

A lot of that can be contributed to having a dull payoff to a great set up. Remember how SHIELD started out in the Marvel universe as being the secret organization that always seems to be one step ahead of the good guys but is also fighting along side them? The more we got to know them, the more powerful they seemed. And when we finally learn what SHIELD was all about, it changed the whole game. Did movie goers or Marvel fans complain about SHIELD being diluted after that? No! It not only changed the game in the MCU, it actually made a show about SHIELD more interesting!

The worst you can do with Weyland Yutani is simply have it all be about weapons and profit and leave it at that. The way they were depicted in ALIENS: COLONIAL MARINES was not only embarrassing, but completely impractical. As Yahtzee pointed out in his review, WY is essentially waging war against all of humanity over a species that is already doing a good job at ruining their plans and killing their own people in bulk. It's like if Google declared war on America so they could control land that is susceptible to the most devastating Earthquakes.
 
What is different about the Assembly cut of A3? I've never run across it.

The Assembly Cut was made back in the mid 2000's for the Alien Quadrilogy DVD set. It comprises of footage that was filmed but either cut, altered or re-edited differently. Some examples.

The Crash
The EEV crash is handled differently. After we see the EEV crash into the ocean, we cut to Clemons walking by himself on the surface of Fury 161. When he comes across the coast he can see the EEV sticking out of the ocean and when he turns his attention towards the beach, he sees Ripley's body. We than see him rushing back to the prison carrying Ripley (In shots that are resemble the Weyland Yutani entering Fury 161 later) and he tells everyone to help retrieve the EEV. In the original cut, after seeing the EEV crash, we cut to a report being made on a computer screen. Instead of finding Ripley on the beach, she's still in the EEV in her cryotube.

Wreckage and Rape
In the theatrical cut, the prisoners bring in the EEV in through a crane while Murphy's dog encounters a face hugger in the EEV. In the Assembly Cut, the prisoners use Oxen to carry the EEV to shore and into the facility. After the EEV has been examined, one of the Oxen dies and two prisoners bring it into the slaughter room. There they discuss their 'ill' intentions towards Ripley and mention how weird it is that an ox in her prime would just belly up and die. When Murphy checks the crate one more time, he notices the Queen Facehugger dangling on the side, picks it up and asks the other prisoner what it is, but he has already left.

Birth
Turns out the now dead Ox was impregnated by the facehugger and during the funeral of Newt and Hicks, it rips it's way out of the ox's corpse. The scene plays out almost like the dog scene but is a bit easier to sit through since the Ox is dead but the Dog is still very much alive. We also see more of the Alien immediately after it's birth from the ox as it stumbles on it's legs and makes a dash across the slaughter room. Thankfully it's a cgi alien and not a literal dog with an alien costume on.

Our Man Golic
There are more scenes with the prisoners in various scenes. Instead of jumping right into "rumor control", Dillon leads the entire assembly in prayer. Before Golic and two other prisoners enter the tunnels to map the area out with candles, they stumble across a vending machine with cigarettes which Golic gleefully smashes open. Kind of gives you the sense that this area was abandoned hastily and that the prisoners have yet to explore every the complex in it's entirety. Also when Ripley is talking with Bishop, Golic decides to have some food in the cafeteria even though he's covered in blood. This leads to his capture.

Clemens bites it
Clemens' death is handled a bit differently. When the alien makes it's way through the air vent into the room, Golic is seen panicking, but calms down to observe what the alien is about to do. There is also a new shot of the alien readying to head bite clemens instead of just cutting to it like in the theatrical cut. After Ripley makes a dash out of the room, Golic looks at the vent where the alien dragged clemens body into and says "Beautiful...".

The Fire Trap
This is where the Assembly Cut actually starts to add things to the movie that were never dealt with in the theatrical version. Do you remember Romeo? The prisoner who was going to rape Ripley while putting on a pair of goggles(?)? He sort of disappears in the theatrical version and was assumed to have died in the botch attempt in capturing the alien. Well, he shows up during the trap and plays a more integral part. After the fire trap is accidentally set off, the prisoners manage to corner the alien in front of the room they plan to trap it in, but it won't go inside. Romeo decides to get the creatures attention, runs into the room with the alien chasing it and Ripley quickly shuts the hatch trapping Romeo and the alien inside. Dillon and Ripley pause a moment while they hear Romeo scream behind the hatch.

Theatrical Cut: Trap Fails
Assembly Cut: Trap is Successful

Two Escapes
Dillon leads a small celebration with the remaining prisoners while Aaron informs Ripley that despite trapping the alien, the company has sent orders not to terminate the alien. In the infirmary, Morse is assigned to watch over Golic who is still acting a bit crazy. He manages to convince Morse to untie him while Golic immediately knocks Morse out. We than go to the hatch where the alien is captured. Golic wants to see the alien but the prisoners guarding the door tell him no. Golic than kills the guards, opens the door and is promptly killed by the alien. After Morse tells Dillon what happened, we than cut to where the theatrical edition picks up with Dillon looking over the guard that Golic killed (In the theatrical, the guard is just another casualty in the botched attempt to trap the creature). Some extra lines are added where Morse is blamed for letting Golic out.

The Ending
The ending also gets altered a bit. When Bishop comes in to inform Ripley that they can save her, one of the company men explains the procedure. After Aaron whacks Bishop on the head with a wrench, there's an extra shot of Bishop grimacing in pain, bleeding red blood and he shouting to Ripley that he's not a droid. After grimacing a bit more, he shouts at the company camera man "No pictures!". When Ripley is seen falling into the furnace, the Queen Embryo no longer bursts through her chest. This was originally how it was going to end since having the Queen burst out of her moments before she is engulfed takes away the choice that she could have survived this endeavor if she went with Bishop.

There are more bits and pieces scattered about in the Assembly cut that I didn't mention here. If you're going to watch this cut, I would recommend watching it on the ALIEN LEGACY BluRay since when the cut was made for DVD, the producers were forbidden to fix the on-set audio issues. With the BluRay, they were able to bring the original actors back (including Sigourney Weaver) to redub their lines that were almost inaudible due to the activity happening on the set. It's a much more finished product thanks to the ADR and you don't have to read subtitles in order to understand what the characters are saying.

So, does the Assembly Cut make Alien3 a better movie for this Alien fan? NO. All of the fundamental problems I have with the film are still there in all it's undignified glory. But for a film all on it's own, the Assembly Cut is a better experience. A lot of plot holes that were present in the Theatrical Cut are fixed in this version and it does a better job at telling whatever story the movie makers were left wtih. I find the ox being impregnated to be a better choice because the size makes more sense. Successfully trapping the alien brings back that practical element that the Alien is not an indestructible creature and having the survivors of all people willingly free the darn thing is pretty cool.
 
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