Lord Boron
Sr Member
Navy Times blasts the Xbone.
New Xbox 'a sin against all service members' | Navy Times | navytimes.com
New Xbox 'a sin against all service members' | Navy Times | navytimes.com
Interesting article on new xbox
- Thread starter Wes R
- Start date
How did I know you were going to hone in on that point. All I said is its more like. It was a point. That the original point made no sense. Was not a personal belief. And another incorrect analogy. In that situation it made financial sense AND the other fuel unleaded option would in no way drive any different. Not noticably. There may be a minimal cost difference. Ford didnt turn round and say buy the old model then. Its about what changes for the user.
Fine. Try this. Every website publishing seems to be out selling ps4 pre orders at least 2 to 1. Amazons poll had a ridiculous favour of the ps4. I said thousands. it was just for the point. Try a third of the market share. That IS millions. Did you not realise that yourself lol?
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Solo4114
Master Member
Probably because you knew it was a weak argument in the first place.
Well, for starters, you have no idea what the financial considerations have been for MS in making this decision. YOU don't see a good financial reason to do it. I promise you that MS believes there is one. It may be wrong, of course, but it still thinks one exists. The reasoning is now "How can we really treat our customers like crap? Hmm..."
So, what's your point? "OTHER PEOPLE ARE ANGRY TOO!!" Is that the point? 'Cause I don't think anyone's been denying it. Nor do I think anyone's been claiming that MS hasn't taken a hit in preorders. But you're talking as if you're trying to "force" MS to change this or that, or that you're somehow fighting the power or whatever. You're not. This isn't some grand organized protest movement. It's not valiant freedom fighters striking a blow against tyranny. It's people saying "Nah. I think I'll buy the other one."
Here's my question to you: why do you care? I mean, why are you trying to "stick it" to MS? Why are you angry at them? Because you really do come across as angry at MS, and wanting to "fight back" or something.
What makes this seem so absurd is that, as you've said, there's another console option out there, and it does everything you want. So...really...who gives a ****** what MS does? Why do you care? Just go buy the other thing and be done with it. Why all the ranting? Do you so identify personally with the Xbox brand or something? Do you have some staunch sense of Xbox loyalty that you feel isn't being rewarded? Pro tip: there's your problem.
It's a video game console. That's all. It's not an identity, it's not your friend, it's not your country. It's just a box that plays video games. So, when the guy who made your last two boxes says "Hey, I'm doing this new thing. You may not like it. I don't care," and another guy says "No worries. We still make a box that does what your old ones did," why get all butthurt about how the first guy doesn't care about you anymore and is trying to sell you something that invades your privacy, kicks your dog, and calls your mother nasty names? Guess what: it won't matter if you JUST DON'T BUY IT. Kinect can't spy on you if you don't own one. MS can't force you to play games online if you don't have an MS console. And given that PS4 is basically gonna play all the same games, but without all the media center features (except for Halo and a couple others).....why the hell are you so mad at MS? All you have to do is vote with your wallet and be done with it.
Look at it this way: MS wants to sell you a console that does a bunch of media center features and requires an internet connection to do so, and is using that internet connection to do DRM. Sony wants to sell you a console that's basically an X360 with better graphics.
Are either of those propositions any reason to be up in arms about how customers are being maligned or whatever? There's no reason to be mad. If you don't like the product Company A is offering, and Company B's product does what it does, stop shouting at Company A and just...go buy from Company B. Or don't buy anything at all. It's a simple as that, and I promise you it ain't worth the agita otherwise.
cboath
Master Member
Saved me a post thanks
Basically, no one targets 100% of any market. They made a decision that the product as is would be better than a watered down version to get that extra 10%. It's not to spite anyone or **** them off. I gave a rather good reason for it too, 1/2 the machine is pretty much useless without an internet connection.
The market they are going after doesn't include that 5-10%. Odds are, though, it includes 5-10% more people (or more than that) who ordinarily wouldn't be in the market for a console. $499 is actually a pretty good price for a media center computer which is what the other half of the box is.
My question is which is the better BR player. I have a PS3 only because I wanted a BR player and it was the best one on the market, and pretty much still is 8 years later.
Probably because you knew it was a weak argument in the first place.
Well, for starters, you have no idea what the financial considerations have been for MS in making this decision. YOU don't see a good financial reason to do it. I promise you that MS believes there is one. It may be wrong, of course, but it still thinks one exists. The reasoning is now "How can we really treat our customers like crap? Hmm..."
So, what's your point? "OTHER PEOPLE ARE ANGRY TOO!!" Is that the point? 'Cause I don't think anyone's been denying it. Nor do I think anyone's been claiming that MS hasn't taken a hit in preorders. But you're talking as if you're trying to "force" MS to change this or that, or that you're somehow fighting the power or whatever. You're not. This isn't some grand organized protest movement. It's not valiant freedom fighters striking a blow against tyranny. It's people saying "Nah. I think I'll buy the other one."
Here's my question to you: why do you care? I mean, why are you trying to "stick it" to MS? Why are you angry at them? Because you really do come across as angry at MS, and wanting to "fight back" or something.
What makes this seem so absurd is that, as you've said, there's another console option out there, and it does everything you want. So...really...who gives a ****** what MS does? Why do you care? Just go buy the other thing and be done with it. Why all the ranting? Do you so identify personally with the Xbox brand or something? Do you have some staunch sense of Xbox loyalty that you feel isn't being rewarded? Pro tip: there's your problem.
It's a video game console. That's all. It's not an identity, it's not your friend, it's not your country. It's just a box that plays video games. So, when the guy who made your last two boxes says "Hey, I'm doing this new thing. You may not like it. I don't care," and another guy says "No worries. We still make a box that does what your old ones did," why get all butthurt about how the first guy doesn't care about you anymore and is trying to sell you something that invades your privacy, kicks your dog, and calls your mother nasty names? Guess what: it won't matter if you JUST DON'T BUY IT. Kinect can't spy on you if you don't own one. MS can't force you to play games online if you don't have an MS console. And given that PS4 is basically gonna play all the same games, but without all the media center features (except for Halo and a couple others).....why the hell are you so mad at MS? All you have to do is vote with your wallet and be done with it.
Look at it this way: MS wants to sell you a console that does a bunch of media center features and requires an internet connection to do so, and is using that internet connection to do DRM. Sony wants to sell you a console that's basically an X360 with better graphics.
Are either of those propositions any reason to be up in arms about how customers are being maligned or whatever? There's no reason to be mad. If you don't like the product Company A is offering, and Company B's product does what it does, stop shouting at Company A and just...go buy from Company B. Or don't buy anything at all. It's a simple as that, and I promise you it ain't worth the agita otherwise.
Sigh... one more shot.
It wasnt a weak argument. Wasnt an argument at all really. I was trying to show a point that what the other guy said was closer to the opposite.
My initial argument wasnt that it made no financial sense. I was refering to your incorrect analogy. That various points in you car analogy made sense for them to stop producing diesel. What I was getting at is that microsoft havent stopped producing a mythical second model for that 10 percent. Its NOT. THE. SAME.
My point was never anything to do with what your asking. I shared my opinion that they will probably take a hit. And gave my reasons for saying rightly so. And also stated that I hope its enough to make them think about changing their ideas and not taking people for suckers. All of this my opinion of course. People made arguments or points shall we say against my initial post. That ms doesnt care and it wont hurt them enough to change etc. I then responded with my own arguments against those arguments. Most forum goes understand how this works.
Not that it matters. I do care. I care about a company that take people for granted. Not individualts but hundreds of thousands especially since it includes me. I dont want to fight back. I just wont be purchasing as its not the best option for me. Its a shame I wont be getting a superior ms device because iv enjoyed many hours on the old one. I also feel they expected me to fork out just cos its new. And I find that behaviour to this magnitude in particular taking the biscuit a bit. Not because its personal against me. But because its not personal against me. Its a middle finger to a lot of people. And I hope they go back to the drawing board. Im not asking to rally the troops here.
It will affect me though wont it. If ms get away with it. Others will follow suit. Luckily at the minute after xbox have destroyed my fave console which is something anyone has right to be a little cross about. Theres an option. You seem to think that people shouldnt be opinionated. When most of the population are. Infact I could so easily say what im saying doesnt affect you. So why do you care and why are you arguing? See what I did there? Heres a pro tip... your tip is incorrect. So I guess its not really a pro tip after all.
As iv said before I was only stating opinion. It was then argument participants including myself that lead to this. Something you really cant grasp.
So heres me bowing out. Because I was always taught to never argue with anyone who cant extrapolate from what you are saying. You have to do all the explaining. And they still dont get it or the conversation goes way of course. For example. You made a point about kinect spying. Something I really don't believe would happen. Nor have I ever mentioned it. Yet you felt the need to put it in there anyways.
See ya
J
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cboath
Master Member
You also have the fact that in cases like this the vocal group gets all the press. It doesn't help either that MS gets coverage for continuously sticking their feet in their mouth at every freaking turn. What the hell happened to them? In the 90s and early 00s the MS marketing machine was second to none. Now they're beyond incompetent.
People are comparing game system to game system. Guess what - it's not a valid comparison. It's Game system to game system/media center computer. Some may not care about that distinction, but I guarantee you, for the PS4 to do all the same things, it'd have to raise it's price a minimum of 100 too.
I'm not saying the criticism's aren't valid, i'm saying they're being blown way out of proportion.
As far as the military goes, my guess is they didn't consider it. Not that they ignored it, but it was something that never came up during RD. Now, what the ******* MS exec said is beyond idiotic in that regard. Those questions have to be answered with tact and grace. The jerk has none of either.
People are comparing game system to game system. Guess what - it's not a valid comparison. It's Game system to game system/media center computer. Some may not care about that distinction, but I guarantee you, for the PS4 to do all the same things, it'd have to raise it's price a minimum of 100 too.
I'm not saying the criticism's aren't valid, i'm saying they're being blown way out of proportion.
As far as the military goes, my guess is they didn't consider it. Not that they ignored it, but it was something that never came up during RD. Now, what the ******* MS exec said is beyond idiotic in that regard. Those questions have to be answered with tact and grace. The jerk has none of either.
cboath
Master Member
How does it make no financial sense? They're not just kicking 10% to the curb. They're expanding to an additional target audience - media center usage. I can admit, i though media center wasn't needed even in windows. Then I hooked it up one day just to do it. HUGE difference. Easily 20x faster than any cable/sat box out there - probably faster. Streaming, instant sports scores, stats, movies (netflix), hulu, movie trailers, etc, etc. That's what they're targeting. That in mass.
You're looking game system to game system. That's not what it is. Half the xbox is a media center - it even gets integrated into the console portion (record and upload game videos). In all honesty, with what it should be able to do, if it worked with directv i'd really consider one, but odds are it won't. Too proprietary.
Forsaken
Well-Known Member
No need to obtain a Microsoft ticket!
Consumers control the rails this high balling Microsoft train wreck is riding on and are throwing the switch, sending it straight to the locomotive scrap yard.
Al
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I’m happy to see you agree, they are collecting information and handing it over.
Any valid reason that all this personal data was collected and saved in the first place?
Saved me a post thanks
Basically, no one targets 100% of any market. They made a decision that the product as is would be better than a watered down version to get that extra 10%. It's not to spite anyone or **** them off. I gave a rather good reason for it too, 1/2 the machine is pretty much useless without an internet connection.
The market they are going after doesn't include that 5-10%. Odds are, though, it includes 5-10% more people (or more than that) who ordinarily wouldn't be in the market for a console. $499 is actually a pretty good price for a media center computer which is what the other half of the box is.
My question is which is the better BR player. I have a PS3 only because I wanted a BR player and it was the best one on the market, and pretty much still is 8 years later.
Eh? Why would making games available to play offline or to sell on ebay be watered down? This is what im getting at. Your insinuating things that wouldnt be true. How would half the machine be useless? Its a games console. Then it would be up to the individual if they wanted the extras enough.
499 for a media centre that doesnt do the things my smart tv does. Oh... and it still works without the internet. Its still a games console. So that should be their main priority. Maybe not the only one but the main one. I mean ms already sell media pcs. Its hardly new. They already have that market.
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You see what you did there! You just backed up my main point to all this. Read what I wrote.
My main point wasnt that it made no financial sense.
Then read yours.
Hows does it not make financial sense?
Are you drunk?
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Paul Andrew
Master Member
Way to take his words entirely out of context. Big ups for that one slick. :thumbsdown You really want to paint the companies that have complied with the government requests for this data as evil and anti consumer, I won't argue with you. But how about you wait to fling that poo until after a company actually does it? As far as I know mircosoft isn't in those ranks yet.
Your smart tv is still smart without the internet? MAGIC.
::edit:: unless you mean your tv still turns on without the internet, which clearly makes more sense.
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Well if youd like to know. I was origionally making the point that I can still watch it dvds etc but w8th less features. But lets but heads here. I can still wirelessly share my photos and videos. I can still watch my personal movie collection wirelessly. Can watch sky. Its hilarious that your trying to trip me up with the definition of works. Again with me having to do all the explaining. A monkey would have got what I ment. Clearly you dont.
Would you say a 360 didnt 'work' if the user didnt have a gold subscription but still play games, just couldnt access youtube etc. No didnt think so. But if you would. You would be incorrect.
J
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Paul Andrew
Master Member
Well, if you really want to dig into the semantics of it...
I would say that without a gold subscription many of the features that make a 360 worth having wouldn't work, yes. Has it been shown anywhere that without an internet connection the XB1 will no longer allow you to do any in home media streaming, or cease playing bluray movies? (A better question might be have they actually said you can do in home media streaming with it, I can't find anything one way or another but I would assume you can.) They've said you can't play games without the internet connected, but I don't think you'll find any quotes that say the other functions I mentioned will cease.
Oh, I very much appreciate the jab at my ability to comprehend you. Big ups for you too. :thumbsdown
edit:: I found it. http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/06/m...will-require-a-network-connection-once-a-day/ You can still watch tv or movies without a connection. So, no it will not turn your console into a brick. You just can't play games til you reconnect after the 24 hour period.
I would say that without a gold subscription many of the features that make a 360 worth having wouldn't work, yes. Has it been shown anywhere that without an internet connection the XB1 will no longer allow you to do any in home media streaming, or cease playing bluray movies? (A better question might be have they actually said you can do in home media streaming with it, I can't find anything one way or another but I would assume you can.) They've said you can't play games without the internet connected, but I don't think you'll find any quotes that say the other functions I mentioned will cease.
Oh, I very much appreciate the jab at my ability to comprehend you. Big ups for you too. :thumbsdown
edit:: I found it. http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/06/m...will-require-a-network-connection-once-a-day/ You can still watch tv or movies without a connection. So, no it will not turn your console into a brick. You just can't play games til you reconnect after the 24 hour period.
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Thats exactly where your wrong. I didnt want to dig there. I said it works. And you made a sarcastic comment and insinuate that without the online features it doesnt. I just made a point that plenty of the features do still work if you wanted to go there.
You didnt answer my question. I said. Does having a 360 without internet not work? Regarless of some extras blah blah. Cos a 15 year old could stand there and say it didnt work cos all the x rated stuff wasnt accessible.
I didnt make a jab at all. I just didnt stand in the way of you jabing your own ability. Then pointed it out.
But its a games console!!! The extras work. But the purpose for which it was buil does not!
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Paul Andrew
Master Member
It is partly a games console, yes. But it has other CORE functions, which will work without the internet.
Oh, and don't patronize me please. If you're gonna call me a monkey and tell me I can't comprehend the words you're laying on the screen then stand by it. During one of my discussions with an infamous (now banned) member he tried a similar thing and I didn't call him on it then, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let you insult my intelligence and then try to tell me you didn't.
Thanks for playing.
Forsaken
Well-Known Member
Gee... he called me slick.
Thank you.
Adjective: Done or operating in an impressively smooth, efficient, and apparently effortless way.
verb: smooth - polish
Al
PS
Edited post for bad sentence structure.
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MAINLY a games console. No matter what the other extras. Thats its purpose. I didnt call you a monkey. I said a monkey would have understood what I ment. And you did not. So stop telling tales and making stories up. If anything I was indirectly insulting your intellegance. Using sarcasm which you first displayed to me. MAGIC about me saying a smart telly still worked without the internet. If your going to tell me what I said. Make it a correct quote. Not a rewording. You obviously know about rules so you should know theres some against that too. Your not exactly making a good appeal about it either
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Jedi2016
Sr Member
I'm pretty sure I already have three or four devices in my living room that all do those other CORE functions perfectly fine. That's not exactly what I would call a sales point.
