What the hell Happened???

In the past i noticed some threads containing a lot of information about kitparts dimensions and what not,..all great you would think.
But the fact that in these threads it is all presented as true and end of all is wrong in my opinion.
Most of these threads were proven to miss a lot of information,.sometimes the dimensions were off ,sometimes there were kit parts missing etc.
A lot of members take this info without questioning anything because they are not aware of the inaccuracies or are not even planning to built the model then now or ever.
Some may gain the info for future builts but are not building anything at all at the moment.
So the thread stays authorative while it's not.
We did not move foreward in any way!
How helpfull are these threads really?
How do we get people to built these models so we all can learn and enjoy?
How many build threads are going on right now here at ss modeling?
I think there is something slightly wrong with the attitude of the posters of these kind of threads in the past(they were not aware of this i assume).
The info in these threads is being presented as if the poster knows it all so no questions are being asked,..the thread is created not to really share or help or show the way.
I feel it is created with a purpose of presentation of true fact/knowledge,..being authorative.
These kind of threads can be really helpfull don't get me wrong ,they seem really generous but they realy do not contribute to a we/community attitude.
So as strange as it may seem to some members who seek answers,in a way these kind of threads are the poison for this forum.
Look at it this way,..sometimes the poster is not even aware of the incompleteness of the info being"shared".
If no one else is building/researching the models how the hell do we know all this info is fact?
It seems the more info is out there the less ss models are being built and in the worst case the ss forum dries out.
This is a expensive hobby in both time/effort and money so we all look for short cuts.
Are there really any short cuts?
In the end you have to invest money in all these kits to obtain the parts you need and in the end you have to do the math. yourselve and solve the problems.
For me the searching for parts and kits is the most fun part of ss modeling.
Don't want to get burned by buying the wrong expensive kit(s)?
Don't have the money to buy these kits?,..maybe this is not the right hobby for you!?
I've seen people build anything from scratch(no kit parts being used or scarcely) so this shouldn't be an excuse but you have to have the talent for that.
Start buying the ones you are sure of,then show your investment to the "experts"and they will help you out by pointing you in the right direction of the kits you need.
Not all "experts"will help you out though,..some members are still angry and hurt that they spend so much cash on unussable kits(nobody forced them to buy them)that now they do not want you to go and find the right ones without the same pain they went through.
I praise them as pioneers and they have all the right to feel the way they feel but they have to stop bullying people.
Contribute in a possitive way or go **** off.
Nothing possitive to say don't say anything,..Please!
The great thing that i've also noticed in the past and even now is that even the most secretively(not sharing) members will help other members out,..anyone ,really anyone!(except the bully described above) ,who sees that you are truly investing here like they did/do will help you out.
Now what about helping eachother out?
I think we should try to gain a more "anyone can contribute" attitude,..yeah even the most "inexperienced" builders can contribute.
Do we want "problems" being solved or don't we?We all want to have the best info availlable yielding in the best results.
So anyone willing to help out in whatever way should be welcome,and is equally valuable.
But in order to be accessable to any outside help, we have to realise we need it.
Always doubt yourself when you think you know it all or have all the facts straight.
Always try to create room for outside help to improve,..it's fun to receive it and it is fun to give others a chance to give it.
There will be more builds,the builds get better and more accurate,the people building will enjoy even more,the people helping out will feel to be a part of it(the forum).
Did you know that there are people on this forum who do not build models at all and never will?
They just really love reading about it and enjoy seeing other people do the modeling.
It is like an art to them ,like visiting a museum a workshop.
How can they contribute without being called lurkers?
They do not bring anything to this forum it seems.
The fact that they give to those who do "contribute" an opportunity to make other people feel good by just reading about and/or looking at their work is a great contribution to this community.
Well,..good enough for ya?,...
Are they not welcome?
To me they are most welcome.
A lot of us started out this way,..some had/will have the "courage" to start building ss models themselves and we should try to encourage anyone to do so because it is a fun thing to do,. but not demand!
The only thing we have to do, i think, is is presenting stuff with an attitute in the realm of "this is what i have, i think this is right, what do you guys think? any suggestions any additional information is welcome"
This will make a lot of members feel part of the whole thing and feel that their presents is appreciated.
Anyone should be welcome to participate,..this is an open forum.
This all is just my opinion.

Wow I have no idea what happens but with my experiences on SSM + RI, etc etc I'm not surprised. I'm just dipping into the studio scale community and so far I've found just about everybody to be happy and helpful. I'm doing what I can to contribute, too. The occasional shake-ups don't deter me; my dedication to the hobby will outlive haters.

It's insane how a hobby can bring out the worst in people, I expecting with gamers because we're invaded by teenagers but most of the folks on this forum into the studio scale are at least in their 30s if not older. This site's been losing veteran members either by banning or just by them going silent and the open door membership hasn't really done much to replace them with new blood. Hobbies are no place for egos.

I'm just gonna go ahead and leave this here:



/ducks

I met THREE guys at Jerseyfest that said they were afraid to post here because of the hostility of the banned members. There is new blood, and I hope they will come out from the shadows now. And that the old guard comes back.....

And Wes, it is in every age group and hobby. In the 1990s I worked for an antique auction house specializing in pre-war bisque porcelain dolls (Bru and Jumeau, etc) that went for tens of thousands of dollars. You should have SEEN the back biting these little old ladies were capable of. In fact, there was a super morbid twist too, because when one would die, there would be a swarm around the person's kids, trying to get the collections on the cheap! It was NUTS.

It's the human condition.

- - - Updated - - -

Ohhh! I assume that is a photoshop?

That's cool, regardless.

StevenBills said:

I'm just gonna go ahead and leave this here:

View attachment 659632

/ducks

Click to expand...

Very well spoken Jason! You nailed the heart of the problem. These guys are incredible model makers with huge talent! I will miss seeing their inspiring replicas. The problem lies with the intense bullying of other members with a sense of entitlement that went along with it. Members of this group felt they were the only ones to define what is acceptable and what was not. And if you don't believe me when I say there was a gang mentality, just go back and look at the threads (that haven't been deleted) and see how in a matter of minutes the rest have jumped in to gang up on a member and their hard work over plastic!

One problem with all public forums is that when sitting behind a keyboard it is real easy say things to people that you would never say to someone to their face because you have miles of cyberspace to make you feel like you can say whatever you want. One bad thing about any forum. Human decency often goes out the door. I agree, what a breathe of fresh air in this forum.

moffeaton said:

Ohhh! I assume that is a photoshop?

That's cool, regardless.

Click to expand...

You would think so, right? I was going through some old things at my parent's house last week and found my old set of Star Wars CCG cards that I was collecting 20 years ago, and was flipping through the binder and found this. I literally LOL'd.

SB

Yeah, and here's the thing about Studio Scale - it's a whole subsection based on SLAVISH devotion to what is essentially art forgery with their incredible talents... for some.

For others, it's getting as close as you can with your skill set, and learning, and being given encouragement, and improving.

That is a BROAD spectrum of people. If the "entry fee" is set to "perfect replica", no one wants to come to the party.

Want to see my first studio scale model from over fifteen years ago? It would get SAVAGED if it was posted now. I cringe when I look at it.



And ten years ago I made a Y-Wing not specific to anything, and added "cool looking" greeblies in places I thought looked "cool":



But you know what? Lorne Peterson once talked about "this fella in Norway that made an AMAZING Princess' ship...." - he was so happy and amazed at Lasse's Blockade Runner, and it's not studio scale accurate at all. But the guy that was ILM for over 30 years and was the head model maker was totally into it.

We spend so much time fretting over making these models perfect and accurate (which is a nice goal, don't get me wrong at all), but ask any ILMer that BUILT the originals, and they think we are nuts.

Julien, Beaz...(not sure who else left in the massacre yesterday.) love em hate em, let's not pretened this is just about a couple guys being rude on the forum.

This current situation is very unfortunate and I see a number of you looking to the staff for answers or pointing to the staff as being the cause of this. The reality is, as we have seen before, there is a small cabal of members (sadly, some who were VERY long-time RPFers and VERY talented) who decided they no longer wanted to be a part of the community, largely because they were unhappy that we have not handled Steve Neisen as they would like. Instead of simply leaving quietly, with dignity, they decided to make an orchestrated effort to disrupt the community and act in an immature manner until they forced our hand. We have a very low tolerance for this type of childish behavior and regretfully gave them what they wanted. I am sure there is plenty of intrigue and an endless amount of supposition and unfounded accusations, but at the end of the day, those members no longer wanted to be here so we gave them the exit they wanted. While it is certainly a blow to the modelling community that has been established here, the sun did not rise or set with those individuals. There are still plenty of talented people here and many more out there in the wild who we hope will some day find us. Keep sharing and keep building. Although we have taken a loss, the community lives on.

Wes R said:

It's insane how a hobby can bring out the worst in people, I expecting with gamers because we're invaded by teenagers but most of the folks on this forum into the studio scale are at least in their 30s if not older. This site's been losing veteran members either by banning or just by them going silent and the open door membership hasn't really done much to replace them with new blood. Hobbies are no place for egos.

Click to expand...

I don't blame hobbies , I blame people misunderstanding written intent and forums are really bad forms of communication as individual character can be lost/misunderstood .I mentioned it before but a classic car forum/ club I was part of was a disaster and for my own health I dropped out of both.
the longer term members did not understand that a forum conversation does not end when one high profile member gives an answer, it should be like a troubleshooting discussion between skilled engineers , we all have input , there will be a concensis formed , if you don't agree with the consensus just add more information , but like many threads here we'll get there in the end .

i am a short term member of only two years , and have loved see the technical challenges to solve problems , the innovative models that I couldn't dream of completing and the thing I'm most envious of models / plastic that looks like it was moulded they are that clean. not hand formed as they are.
I have been also been taken aback by subjects I would never have previously had an interest in, surely that is a sign of how great this forum is.

the humour has been brilliant too when it hasn't been personal.

i have been inspired by most members here, and try and pass on any information I have, I have always felt hamstrung with regard to people wanting to hold information
i agree with comments earlier , if you cannot share then don't say you know it.

ive been bursting a gut lately to try and identify a part that hasn't been found LOL I'm sure most have been found , but I'll be sharing .in the meantime I've started a concerted effort to photograph and share my kit stash .(if my wife asks I don't have a stash)
thats not to say there hasn't been some amazing collaborations , with some stunning parts maps being shared, there is no way to thank everyone involved , except find an unknown part to help the cause.

lets take this opportunity to reset the clocks , enjoy each other's builds , give feedback where asked or individual needs help, continue to inspire junior members like me (funny saying that over 40 ) and share your builds. And if you feel something may be incorrect let them know NICELY

I took a break from RPF some time ago as summer is a busy time at home , and I have to say the break helped to bring back my enthusiasm for this great forum.

Thanks everyone and let's keep it the great site it is .
Brian Costello

I build models because it's fun. Period. I build movie models because in May of 1977 I sat in a theater and saw the most amazing spectacle of my life unfold before my eyes.

That there are such a talented and dedicated group of fanatics doing the same thing and getting together to talk (and sometime bitch) about it is amazing. Especially when they are willing to share their knowledge. Studio Scale modeling is made better by this camaraderie and sharing.

But if the hobby is going to survive we need to be inclusive and encouraging to people that are interested in getting into it. Like Jason, I have heard from members here that are afraid to post or ask questions for fear of being ridiculed or jumped on for "asking without contributing". Someone that's new doesn't have a lot to contribute other than enthusiasm, but that should be enough for a start. Given a nurturing environment that enthusiasm will become experience which will lead to contributing. Elitism and sarcasm have no place here.

Sometimes you have to take a break especially if things are getting under your skin, we lost more than a few members while i've been here over tempers flaring instead of taking a breather. It's that with every hobby really even when it's not involving a forum, if something is ticking you off take a break from it for a while.

Its just sad all around really.

I'm even ideologically "OK" with expecting new member to pay their dues a little bit before freely exchanging information... When I first came here (a very long time ago) I asked tons of questions - got a few basic answers. But when I did something as simple as pay the admission fee to the magic of myth tour and took hundreds upon hundreds of reference photos of the 5 foot falcon and 8 foot SD, then shared them... that's when I got access to a lot (certainly not all) of inside info... because I was contributing to the "hunt" for information. And I will admit to seeing my pictures used in other people posts as reference and thinking - it woulda been nice if they gave me credit for the pic - but after so many years (10-15 now) that person does not even know I took them since they been passed around 15 times since then, and may not even know who I am. The point is I "sorta" owned the picture, but I never owned the topic... and information that was gleaned from those pics, has helped the hobby.

When I first came here I the only thing I had ever scratch built was a 1.5 inch Millennium falcon made from 2 car model hubcaps, carved sprue and too much paint and glue. I think I did that when I was about 10. Needless to say is was far from "accurate"... but it was my first leap from a straight kit build. Today I'm a little better scratch-builder, certainly not in the league with the professionals but I get by. What they do with two strokes of an exacto knife and three drops of glue takes me a week... but I get there. My point to this bit of rambling is that I'm (and all of you are) sort of colleagues with some great talents. But we all started with a misshapen equivalent of my 1.5 inch falcon... the only difference is time and practice... and some talent. As many people can attest not all colleagues are created equally... some are massively talented, some not, but together we get the job done. In my professional life I carry a LOT of people not as good at my job as I am... in this world I'm picking up the slack for others. and I'm OK with that. but just like at work - I treat everyone with respect - even if I'm carrying their load. In the world of the internet, IM's texts etc. is SO easy to forget that you're talking to a person, and write things that hurt others. Also the phenomena of semi-anonymity (real or perceived) emboldens people to do and say things they normally would not. Compound that with cultural and language differences and you have a recipe for miscommunication and some nasty flame wars... not just here but many places.

in closing I'll end as I started...

Its just sad all around really.

Jedi Dade

strictly from an observers standpoint....

Some of the banned members were absolutely great assets and while they may not have gone about it as tactfully as they could have, I think at the core, they were just trying to protect what is a very narrow and specific scope of modeling.

I totally get the distinction of the effort put into reproducing a filming prop from original parts/scratch built parts vs those who build kits of a model that happens to be studio scale. No offense meant to those like me who just build kits, it just a different aspect of the hobby.

Let's face it. There is a lot of money invested in this part of the hobby and that probably has a lot to do with things

While it may not be the most "newbee" friendly, there was in a way something to aspire to. Kind of like the difference between a guy playing a sport for fun vs someone playing at a pro level. You have to pay some dues to get the respect of other people at that level rather than just walk in fresh off the street with demands.

At the same time, I never did quite get the hate hurled towards Jason, nor did I understand the grilling thrown at Mike Salzo.
Sometimes it just came off as jealousy. But again I am an outsider

Some of the arguments did seem petty, but like many of the readers, we are simply third party bystanders who really have no business being part of the dirty laundry and could have done without most of the behind the scenes drama

However, at times there are certainly valid concerns raised. I get worried when I read stories of people getting stiffed on kits, yet seeing other threads showing how awesome business is going for them and showing models off. As someone who would be in the market for garage kits it scares me to death plopping down a chunk of hard earned cash

Although people like Mike Salzo have always come through on that end, even going out of his way to deliver and make sure the buyer is satisfied.

Hopefully he will return

Hopefully we will see more great talent from this section

TL;DR I loved seeing the work produced, will miss some really invaluable talent, but. I didn't really care for threads devolving into who said what and who owes who what.

It's really none of our business

I'd also like to add that things do seem kind of lopsided though. Again this is simply as a third party observer

Just a quick comment on the above post - no matter how many cool pics we see of product etc. WE (everyone not on the payroll and some on it) will never know if the company is doing well or not. Having been part of some small to medium sized efforts in the past a LOT of decisions and work is done in the hopes of future work coming. If that work and or payment is slow in coming it often spells doom for a that person/company. Its a Very precarious tightrope. The appearance of success is a VERY different thing than actual success

Jedi Dade

kokkari said:

Very well spoken Jason! You nailed the heart of the problem. These guys are incredible model makers with huge talent! I will miss seeing their inspiring replicas. The problem lies with the intense bullying of other members with a sense of entitlement that went along with it. Members of this group felt they were the only ones to define what is acceptable and what was not. And if you don't believe me when I say there was a gang mentality, just go back and look at the threads (that haven't been deleted) and see how in a matter of minutes the rest have jumped in to gang up on a member and their hard work over plastic!

One problem with all public forums is that when sitting behind a keyboard it is real easy say things to people that you would never say to someone to their face because you have miles of cyberspace to make you feel like you can say whatever you want. One bad thing about any forum. Human decency often goes out the door. I agree, what a breathe of fresh air in this forum.

Click to expand...

It's called Hyper Text Enhanced Testicular Fortitude or "Web Balls". You are right, decency goes out the door and I have been both on the receiving end and dished it out in my younger days (not here). As I grew older, and got into a career that I spend most of my time negotiating and yes, fighting, I learned that I will never say anything online I wouldn't say to someones face. That, and well, building these things is my pressure relief valve, the last thing I want is to come here to drool over plastic (both new and the 40 year old vintage), and get slammed or watch someone else get slammed. I've only been on for 4-5 years and spent time on the sidelines because of the animosity. Not knowing the sit rep, I didn't know who the "bad guys" and "good guys" were, so I just admired the work, and didn't ask questions!

Glad this is going in a different direction!

moffeaton said:

Yeah, and here's the thing about Studio Scale - it's a whole subsection based on SLAVISH devotion to what is essentially art forgery with their incredible talents... for some.

For others, it's getting as close as you can with your skill set, and learning, and being given encouragement, and improving.

That is a BROAD spectrum of people. If the "entry fee" is set to "perfect replica", no one wants to come to the party.

Want to see my first studio scale model from over fifteen years ago? It would get SAVAGED if it was posted now. I cringe when I look at it.

View attachment 659636

And ten years ago I made a Y-Wing not specific to anything, and added "cool looking" greeblies in places I thought looked "cool":

View attachment 659637

But you know what? Lorne Peterson once talked about "this fella in Norway that made an AMAZING Princess' ship...." - he was so happy and amazed at Lasse's Blockade Runner, and it's not studio scale accurate at all. But the guy that was ILM for over 30 years and was the head model maker was totally into it.

We spend so much time fretting over making these models perfect and accurate (which is a nice goal, don't get me wrong at all), but ask any ILMer that BUILT the originals, and they think we are nuts.

Click to expand...

YES! Lasse mentioned just doing it like the ILM guys did it "this looks cool, put it there", so I can see why someone like Lorne would appreciate that sort of amazing creativity. I know I did. I appreciate the work that goes into scratch building, studio scale, styrene kits, garage kits, you name it. I like doing them all.

There are very few of us left in the world with a love of a hobby like this, so I appreciate you taking the reins Jason and breathing new life into something that could have left a big hole after the exodus. I don't know all the details of what went down, but I was a big fan of work of those who exited, same as those who are still here! Unfortunate that it came to that, but I hope everyone (on all sides) is better off for it.

PS- I have always liked that Y-wing! I am very close to doing the same thing with the Galactic Resin one I have.

I figured I have ZERO to lose by talking about this in the open. They already haaaaate me. In fact, a couple of the banned members are going "bananas" on Facebook, spreading all sorts of strange stream of consciousness rants about how awful I am. Otherwise known as "Tuesday" :lol.

But man, I don't feel like I am taking any reins. I am just posting here again, hoping others do too.

Thanks Art for your lights on the situation.
I was worried , as I've seen on other forums, that people would have been banned for wrong reasons. As I've seen many bad post from both "sides" of the arguments I was worried that a side was token from TheRPF.
My apologies if you felt that way.
As long as they've decided to leave themselves, I'm good with that.... Their loss. And a bit ours in the same time but Hey! that's life.

Best
Stephane

Art Andrews said:

This current situation is very unfortunate and I see a number of you looking to the staff for answers or pointing to the staff as being the cause of this. The reality is, as we have seen before, there is a small cabal of members (sadly, some who were VERY long-time RPFers and VERY talented) who decided they no longer wanted to be a part of the community, largely because they were unhappy that we have not handled Steve Neisen as they would like. Instead of simply leaving quietly, with dignity, they decided to make an orchestrated effort to disrupt the community and act in an immature manner until they forced our hand. We have a very low tolerance for this type of childish behavior and regretfully gave them what they wanted. I am sure there is plenty of intrigue and an endless amount of supposition and unfounded accusations, but at the end of the day, those members no longer wanted to be here so we gave them the exit they wanted. While it is certainly a blow to the modelling community that has been established here, the sun did not rise or set with those individuals. There are still plenty of talented people here and many more out there in the wild who we hope will some day find us. Keep sharing and keep building. Although we have taken a loss, the community lives on.

Click to expand...