Efx has a new $300 Darth Vader (precision cast replica) Helmet

bookface said:
This is clearly a clear coat finish:

View attachment 701943

Polishing would remove the uneveness in the finish, presenting a perfectly smooth look rather than the slight orange peeling that you see.

Colour shots from the movie, take these shots to a professional painter and ask how to match this and they will say 'clear coat', and give you a funny look for asking something so obvious.

View attachment 701944 View attachment 701945

Looking at Gino's shots of his own helmets, they look clearly polished. The finish is flawless and I'm sure a TON of work went into getting them like that, but they do not line up with the images I've posted.
Click to expand...

A polished black without clearcoat is a lot deeper black and shiny.I know a guy who ripped all the clearcoat from his car because the black is so much better without clearcoat.
And you must look at the gunmetal sections..they are a lot more semigloss as the black ones.You can see that very good on your pic who Kershner wants to kiss Vader.You must also see the movie lights on the scenes you posted lower.
In the same scene(and different lights)the helmets looks not more so shiny.

28153091iv.jpg
 
Darctic said:
In most shots the reflections in the helmet are really diffused. BUT that's only what you see in most of the clear shots (tantive). So I would agree it's a matter of opinion and what look you're going for. :) So in your opinion what is needed to get it to a more Duller "Deathstar/ tantive look rather then the shiny? Wouldn't polishing it make it more reflective?

On page 15 of this topic someone compared the EFX LT edition with the PCR, It shows the difference in Finish.. the LT edition has much more of a dull look than the PCR wich really reflects everything quite like the ESB did.

Really appreciate the chiming in :)
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right, polishing makes it more reflective, BUT this can also be affected by surface contaminants like grease (hence the greasy fingerprints recommendation earlier!)

This is a shot from the Tantive scene:

vader_anh_face.jpg

If you look at the delineation between dark patches and light on the dome, the edges are very sharp and defined. Based on my experience you only get this with quite a highly polished surface. A true satin finish (like the EFX ltd and legend helmets) will not look like this.

Here's one I finished. The lighting and angles are different, but you can see a lot of the same reflective characteristics in the dome as compared to the original:

View attachment IMG_3927a.jpg

There's a behind the scenes video of Prowse being suited up, and after placing the dome on him the woman gives it a rub with a cloth. Who knows how much grease and other junk was on that, or just got smeared around by it. We tend to expect the set up for SW was as perfect as we would make it, but at the time it just wasn't that big a deal.
 
Auto makers didn't start using clear coats on factory made cars until the early-mid 1980s. Before that, it wasn't standard practice.

Before clear coat paint technology was in common use, to get a high gloss finish on a car or anything painted with automotive paint it was several coats of hand-rubbed lacquer paint. People waxed their cars because the sun, wind, and water dulled the finish. Now days you can just wash your clear coat car and it's shinny.

In 1976 and 1979 if you wanted a high gloss finish it was hand rubbed lacquer, not clear coat.
 
Kroenen77 you're missing my point a little. You can absolutely get a deep gloss black finish without clear. You can't do it while maintaining the surface that is clear to see in the pics I posted. It requires tons of sanding and polishing, both of which will flatten the finish and would remove the obvious surface imperfections.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You can still have an orange peel affect with polishing btw.
For the record the originals were not clear coated.
How many original screen-used Vader helmets have you handled bookface?


.
 
bookface said:
You're absolutely right, polishing makes it more reflective, BUT this can also be affected by surface contaminants like grease (hence the greasy fingerprints recommendation earlier!)

This is a shot from the Tantive scene:

View attachment 701962

If you look at the delineation between dark patches and light on the dome, the edges are very sharp and defined. Based on my experience you only get this with quite a highly polished surface. A true satin finish (like the EFX ltd and legend helmets) will not look like this.

Here's one I finished. The lighting and angles are different, but you can see a lot of the same reflective characteristics in the dome as compared to the original:

View attachment 701964

There's a behind the scenes video of Prowse being suited up, and after placing the dome on him the woman gives it a rub with a cloth. Who knows how much grease and other junk was on that, or just got smeared around by it. We tend to expect the set up for SW was as perfect as we would make it, but at the time it just wasn't that big a deal.
Click to expand...

Yes! But I was actually trying to point out this look: especially the finish in the second picture
Screen Shot 2017-01-17 at 13.25.45.pngScreen Shot 2017-01-28 at 17.27.17.png
 
GINO said:
You can still have an orange peel affect with polishing btw.
For the record the originals were not clear coated.
How many original screen-used Vader helmets have you handled bookface?
.
Click to expand...

None, thanks for asking. Which is why I'm left analysing pictures and coming to conclusions based on experience as a prop maker and the known behaviour of materials. I'd be delighted to hear more details on your personal experiences of handling screen used helmets. How do you know they weren't clear coated? Was an older style of 'clear' such as a lacquer used? Old guitars would use nitro cellulose as a kind of clear coat and is part of the reason that you will never get an authentic 'antiqued' look from a new guitar that has a poly finish. Was it something similar to that?

Older style clears can break down without regular attention, do you think something like this happened to the helmets you've handled?

I've not yet seen a form of polishing that will polish something to a deep wet look like the screencaps I posted above while leaving surface imperfections intact. Was there a reason you didn't go this route with your own replicas?
 
Darctic said:
Yes! But I was actually trying to point out this look: especially the finish in the second picture
View attachment 702019View attachment 702020
Click to expand...

Good pics! The first one still has what I would call a polished but greasy looking finish, the second, the lighting is so radically different that it's difficult to draw conclusions. It appears to be mainly lit from the rear, and you can still see the quite sharp reflections there, but this is what I mean when I say that often for ANH you can pick a scene where you like the look and go with it, and you won't be 'wrong' per se.
 
What you are seeing in the pic with Kershner is just a polished helmet where they did not take the time to wet sand out the orange peel before hand. And yes you can absolutely polish paint to mirror gloss finish.
 
bookface said:
Good pics! The first one still has what I would call a polished but greasy looking finish, the second, the lighting is so radically different that it's difficult to draw conclusions. It appears to be mainly lit from the rear, and you can still see the quite sharp reflections there, but this is what I mean when I say that often for ANH you can pick a scene where you like the look and go with it, and you won't be 'wrong' per se.
Click to expand...
yes! almost the same goes for:
Screen Shot 2017-01-28 at 17.41.19.png

And agreed. You can't judge on finish even if you have handled them.. it would've been DECADES after their intended use... and based on finished for helmets in this case. Most people here aren't making a star wars movie but are trying to replicate what was seen on screen. That's where the difference comes in ;) So a clearcoat would be a way to go in replicating that look.
 
GINO said:
What you are seeing in the pic with Kershner is just a polished helmet where they did not take the time to wet sand out the orange peel before hand. And yes you can absolutely polish paint to mirror gloss finish.
Click to expand...

But surely that's extremely labour intensive? And how do you polish to that level without removing the orange peel? I'm not disputing the fact that you can polish paint to that level, I've done it myself. I'm asking how it's done while retaining the finish seen.
 
If you have a heavy lacquer paint job, with orange peel, you can polish the paint and the orange peel together without removing the orange peel.

Polishing alone will not remove orange peel, you've got to sand it out.

Polishing/waxing is labor intensive, but it was still standard practice back in those days.
 
GINO said:
What you are seeing in the pic with Kershner is just a polished helmet where they did not take the time to wet sand out the orange peel before hand. And yes you can absolutely polish paint to mirror gloss finish.
Click to expand...


Fully agree here...

Polishing alone is insufficient to remove orange-peel. The height differential between the "peaks and valleys" of your typical orange-peeled paint surface is far greater that what a mere abrasive polish alone would remove. Without a proper wet sanding, the polish will merely "shine up the humps" of the orange peel surface.

In my personal experience, to adequately remove orange-peel, it is necessary to start a wet-sanding regimen beginning with 400 or 600 grit, and carrying it out to at least 2,500 grit.

Edit: James - overlappng posts! Great minds...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Anyone have a helmet laying around they can put this to the test to?

So back to the topic of the dome shade.. How can I redo the dome paintjob without going to town with grease ?
 
James Kenobi 1138 said:
Some things are still true even if you've never personally seen them. It's okay.
Click to expand...

:lol

Thanks for that. Can I assume you have no evidence to support your claim then? I'm not trying to be confrontational, it just seems like everyone who supports the polishing idea has no proof to back it up. Even Ginos own helmets don't back it up.
 
This thread is more than 5 years old.

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

  1. This thread hasn't been active in some time. A new post in this thread might not contribute constructively to this discussion after so long.
If you wish to reply despite these issues, check the box below before replying.
Be aware that malicious compliance may result in more severe penalties.

Similar threads

Tempideus
I got an EFX Limited Edition Vader Helmet!
Replies
7
Views
699
Tempideus
Tempideus
blewis17
PICS Lager Toys Darth Vader Helmet
Replies
4
Views
938
CHSimp94
CHSimp94
absulition
Darth Vader Shin&Cod Template
Replies
1
Views
191
lethyry
lethyry
Marvin Clout
Help finding a ROTJ EE-3 Resin Cast Replica
Replies
4
Views
341
Sidewinder
Sidewinder
darthwhitey
Anybody offering a high-end Darth Vader bust?...
Replies
1
Views
641
Scruffylooking
Scruffylooking
Back
Top