Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Pre-release)

All this "should be" and "shouldn't be" stuff that I've been guilty of.... I took thought over this and just life in general recently. I realized that life is filled with things that happen and after the fact you say it should have went this way or shouldn't have gone another way, but it happened.

People from all around are never going to agree with the path a life story has gone. Life is filled with great moments and bad ones, and no story is ever perfect.

Star Wars is not perfect. It's going the direction it's going, so continue to be on board and be a part of its life, or be done and move on to something else that aligns with how things should be for you.

I think I suddenly woke up on a different side of the bed and after reading 3 pages of moaning over balance and grey and all this "I'm out if..." I'm really exhausted.

I'm going to continue critiquing films and have my opinions, but I'm going to also keep in mind that this is a series of chapters in a life that isn't mine and it is what it is and through the good and bad I still love Star Wars. I don't agree with every aspect of the films. At its core I do believe the original trilogy resonates so well with most people because it presented us with a pretty definitive good and evil and great life anecdote quotes go live by to keep our spirits up.

We're now in an area of gray and some just really don't like the idea of there not just being a good and evil. I've gone through life as a child believing there is just good and bad. In my adult life I've come to know this immense gray area through observation and that life is not how I once viewed it as a child. It's a mystery that plays with you and keeps you guessing. I don't know what's going to happen next ever. Always something getting in the way of what I want to do is my challenge.

As life goes on, we lose people. We get lost.

Star Wars is a mystery. The force is not defined. The giant 30 year gap between ROTJ and TFA are undefined. We're all still putting the pieces together. Let the story unfold and be told. We've lost people we've loved growing up with. The life inside the story has changed. We don't know fully what's going on, but geeze... give it a chance.

Sorry if I've jumped all over the place. I'm starting to get fed up with some of the complaining over the teaser and hearsay rumors.

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niennumb1 said:

Star Wars is a mystery. The force is not defined. The giant 30 year gap between ROTJ and TFA are undefined. We're all still putting the pieces together. Let the story unfold and be told. We've lost people we've loved growing up with. The life inside the story has changed. We don't know fully what's going on, but geeze... give it a chance.

Sorry if I've jumped all over the place. I'm starting to get fed up with some of the complaining over the teaser and hearsay rumors.

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understood .

Part of the problem for me, is that the story HAS been told, and for the most part, i enjoyed where THOSE characters went and the journey they went on.

Now they erased it all. and STILL they seem to be borrowing bits and pieces of what they feel worked, and it just feels like it's being done less wonderfully.

For instance. Ben Skywalker is now Ben Solo

Jacen Doesn't kill Mara. Ben Solo Kills Han.

Chewie doesn't die for shock value, Han does.

Luke doesn't go on an exiled mission looking for reasons why the force does what it does. Luke exiles himself cause he feels he failed..


it's pretty much the same story as the EU, but with ALOT of OT elements repeated to try and re quaint people with what they know of the franchise (forgetting DVD's apparently exist)

IT just feels like from ship design to character design, to story to plot, it can be ALOT more creative. and as is shown, now they are stealing from other movies as well.
With R1 it was Deep Impact. here, they lift a shot from Superman...

To me, it feels like there is no creativity in hollywood anymore, because people don't stand up and say 'this is bad'. they either accept it as 2 hours of fluff and move on with life (probably a good way to go), or defend mediocrity.



That's why I've become highly critical. and I really don't enjoy it, but I feel it's something that needs to be done more. people are too afraid to speak up today because of the over emotional reaction they usually get where people feel before they think. that's sad too.

It's an absolute JOY to find a movie i have zero problems with and can justgo in and enjoy. most of the time those are marvel movies and cgi animated movies these days.that seems to be where the creativity is gone.

3 generations...

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KrangPrime said:

understood .

Part of the problem for me, is that the story HAS been told, and for the most part, i enjoyed where THOSE characters went and the journey they went on.

Now they erased it all. and STILL they seem to be borrowing bits and pieces of what they feel worked, and it just feels like it's being done less wonderfully.

For instance. Ben Skywalker is now Ben Solo

Jacen Doesn't kill Mara. Ben Solo Kills Han.

Chewie doesn't die for shock value, Han does.

Luke doesn't go on an exiled mission looking for reasons why the force does what it does. Luke exiles himself cause he feels he failed..


it's pretty much the same story as the EU, but with ALOT of OT elements repeated to try and re quaint people with what they know of the franchise (forgetting DVD's apparently exist)

IT just feels like from ship design to character design, to story to plot, it can be ALOT more creative. and as is shown, now they are stealing from other movies as well.
With R1 it was Deep Impact. here, they lift a shot from Superman...

To me, it feels like there is no creativity in hollywood anymore, because people don't stand up and say 'this is bad'. they either accept it as 2 hours of fluff and move on with life (probably a good way to go), or defend mediocrity.



That's why I've become highly critical. and I really don't enjoy it, but I feel it's something that needs to be done more. people are too afraid to speak up today because of the over emotional reaction they usually get where people feel before they think. that's sad too.

It's an absolute JOY to find a movie i have zero problems with and can justgo in and enjoy. most of the time those are marvel movies and cgi animated movies these days.that seems to be where the creativity is gone.

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I understand you, man. You know.... perhaps that's what makes it more complex and with good points on yours and many fans part.

I grew up with the films, but because I prefer films, I never read most of the EU material out there except Shadows of the Empire.

I can see what would make a lot of this hard to accept especially if over the years the books were supposed to be believed as the official time line of post events and then having that rug torn out from under you.... I can understand that fully.

Maybe that's why I've been more accepting of it is because I didn't read much beyond the films, so this is all new to me without having known a previously written future.

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niennumb1 said:

I understand you, man. You know.... perhaps that's what makes it more complex and with good points on yours and many fans part.

I grew up with the films, but because I prefer films, I never read most of the EU material out there except Shadows of the Empire.

I can see what would make a lot of this hard to accept especially if over the years the books were supposed to be believed as the official time line of post events and then having that rug torn out from under you.... I can understand that fully.

Maybe that's why I've been more accepting of it is because I didn't read much beyond the films, so this is all new to me without having known a previously written future.

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that IS a Major part of it. especially since after the halfway point, they put SO much effort to try and make it official too....

then disney just comes in and cherry picks stuff. ugh.

and what's sad is, star wars ALWAYS jumps in on a continuing story. all the work was already done for them. all people had to do was go back and look :/..

And from your standpoint I would say it is with great exception that I highly respect your points made on that and had I also delved into the expanded universe of books I honestly probably would have had a much different view of these new films than I currently do.

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niennumb1 said:

And from your standpoint I would say it is with great exception that I highly respect your points made on that and had I also delved into the expanded universe of books I honestly probably would have had a much different view of these new films than I currently do.

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I started with thrawn. I didn't even know a new series of books was coming out. i was looking for garfield. ;o). I've read everything else since, a few of the junior novel books, and skipping only the horror books, which i don't feel really have a place in SW. to me, the EU was with me since junior high onward past the college years, and to have it all wiped out, even if half of it was incredibly goofy, is just kind of sad.

and then to have them steal bits and pieces....i don't want to say it feels like an insult....but it doesn't feel good. and hardly the reason why they gave for erasing it to begin with. How is this creative? ).

i wanted to see some of those characters on screen : Jaina. Mara, Thrawn. Karrde. Kyle. Wedge and Iella. dozens of others that where fun reads. all gone now and re introduced in less fun ways. Thrawn in particular.

maybe my perspective was a bit skewed, but it's one reason why i'm not really impressed with disney star wars so far...

Here is what I got from the trailer.

Rey just got out of a Degobah Yoda mystery type cave when we first see her . you know like when Luke saw himself as Vader . that's why she's all exhausted looking. Don't know why that was just my first impression.


and DEL TORO says the Jedi have to end ! Not Luke .

But you have to remember I am incredibly stupid !

annanake said:

Here is what I got from the trailer.

Rey just got out of a Degobah Yoda mystery type cave when we first see her . you know like when Luke saw himself as Vader . that's why she's all exhausted looking. Don't know why that was just my first impression.


and DEL TORO says the Jedi have to end ! Not Luke .

But you have to remember I am incredibly stupid !

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Mark hamill already confirmed that it was him who said it.

Nitz146 said:

Mark hamill already confirmed that it was him who said it.

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Yeah after I listen again its him fer sure.

What's crazy is I walked in mid trailer not knowing what it was first thing I heard was " there is only one truth I know " and I was like ooh Del toro what's this ?

KrangPrime said:

after you read up on kennedy and how she 'allegedly' got up the power line position...if it's all true, she doesn't seem to have much creativity in anything other than manipulating to get into power position. but, i know we already can't talk about that cause people get far too emotional, so i'll drop it there.

DISNEY I would have expected more from. they have enough creative people in charge to really pull it off wonderfully. we see that with the marvel films.
I only wish the same marvel team that knows what makes those characters tick, would be in charge of the entire film division.

at least we'd get a little more creativity.

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A woman couldn't possibly get to her position without manipulation and whatever other things she "allegedly" did.

*****.

NeoRutty said:

A woman couldn't possibly get to her position without manipulation and whatever other things she "allegedly" did.

*****.

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Where did it say anything about her being "a woman"? The world is full of manipulative people whose only talent is manipulation to get where they want to be. They're vicious, men and women. Hollywood probably has more of those types than not. It is not populated with "nice guys and gals". All vipers.

teecrooz said:

You are more than within your right to have an opinion, have fun, build, enjoy the hobby, but you seem intent on constant complaining. I don't wish for your ban but I am tired of the constant pessimism. Sorry if the first post came off in the wrong way.

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No worries, I'm used to it ;o)....

The reason i complain is that there is so much that just isn't done the way i want. and i'm not a very optimistic person in the first place.


Anyway, i should have known better than to bring it up at all..so i put in the request to delete it.

Feel free to put me on ignore though. i'm used to talking to myself anyway if i'm still here ;o)..

and you'll also note, i'm not the only hard hat here. the negativity threads go on far longer than the positive ones started too ;o).

Jedi-72 said:

Where did it say anything about her being "a woman"? The world is full of manipulative people whose only talent is manipulation to get where they want to be. They're vicious, men and women. Hollywood probably has more of those types than not. It is not populated with "nice guys and gals". All vipers.

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Because men are always questioned on what they do with their Hollywood power, and women how the ever got it in the first place. I live with and work with female producers/creators, and this is a constant thread. Apparently no woman got there on her own merits. They connived or slept their way there.

Sorry if I jumped down throats, but it gets tired. I'm working with a woman producer right now and she makes me feel dumb she's so on the ball with character and story.

Anyway it's gonna be heard a lot more now that Star Wars is branching out for the female fans.


back to the trailer....

now that I've seen it on my tv and not a crappy phone, there is certainly more going on than I thought.... still not enough to give an opinion on except that it's nice seeing more actual space.

and glad to see Kylo still has his old saber.

I have to admit, my major concern with this teaser, and this film, is Luke. I was really hoping for some kind of hero moment in the teaser for Luke, but was denied that.

I was hoping for that in the last film too. Mark Hamill recently stated as much, saying that he really thought it was a missed opportunity to not have him show up in the first film in a dire moment and save the day.

This teaser feels like a missed opprotunity to make fans head explode. I mean, it's Star Wars. So yeah, awesome. New Footage. But heck, I'd of enjoyed just seeing Luke walk down a corridor or igniting a lightsaber while facing off some stormtroopers. Any kind of movement, or action would have been appreciated. Instead, we're not seeing that at all. Just in shadow for a single shot, on a bitter note.

I'm hoping they give him something to do beyond training. That he has a mission, and that he has an adventure to go on. Maybe even a last adventure. But I have a feeling they're going to give all the adventure to Rey and Finn, and Poe.

I'm sure we'll get some Luke action. The teaser is meant to tease. Yeah, a shot of him with his lightsaber would have been awesome, but I don't think it's anything to worry about. I have a feeling we won't see much of Luke until the movie comes out.

Noeland said:

I have to admit, my major concern with this teaser, and this film, is Luke. I was really hoping for some kind of hero moment in the teaser for Luke, but was denied that.

I was hoping for that in the last film too. Mark Hamill recently stated as much, saying that he really thought it was a missed opportunity to not have him show up in the first film in a dire moment and save the day.

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When VII was first announced, my thoughts were that the kid living inside those who hated the prequels was going to come alive when we saw Luke in the trailer, igniting his old green saber. I imagined the theater erupting during that trailer, and fans on the same page again. Anyway, that's kind of the opposite of what happened, and now, ironically I'm one of the cynics.

Seeing some of the YouTube videos of Mark expressing his disappointment of Luke's role in TFA, you can't help but feel for him, and I wonder how much his heart is still in it.

With my failing health and unrelenting complications due to 34 years of type 1, maybe I just wanted to see that life may have been good to my heroes, and that with age doesn't always come irrelevance and obscurity. Of course, maybe I'm not the cynic.

In Hamill's defense though I would have been a wee ticked if I was put on this vigorous program and doing all this intense stuff he was undergoing just to find out my part involved turning around, removing my hood and staring with not one line uttered.

I was very happy with TFA, but just trying to see it from Hamill's perspective as an actor preparing for his role back into the saga like that.

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PantheraGem said:

now, ironically I'm one of the cynics.

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Myself, personally, I WANTED to see luke be the new yoda. but this film skipped over all that.

maybe they had flashbacks of new jedi academy novels and wanted to avoid repeating that

KrangPrime said:

understood .

Part of the problem for me, is that the story HAS been told, and for the most part, i enjoyed where THOSE characters went and the journey they went on.

Now they erased it all. and STILL they seem to be borrowing bits and pieces of what they feel worked, and it just feels like it's being done less wonderfully.

For instance. Ben Skywalker is now Ben Solo

Jacen Doesn't kill Mara. Ben Solo Kills Han.

Chewie doesn't die for shock value, Han does.

Luke doesn't go on an exiled mission looking for reasons why the force does what it does. Luke exiles himself cause he feels he failed..


it's pretty much the same story as the EU, but with ALOT of OT elements repeated to try and re quaint people with what they know of the franchise (forgetting DVD's apparently exist)

IT just feels like from ship design to character design, to story to plot, it can be ALOT more creative. and as is shown, now they are stealing from other movies as well.
With R1 it was Deep Impact. here, they lift a shot from Superman...

To me, it feels like there is no creativity in hollywood anymore, because people don't stand up and say 'this is bad'. they either accept it as 2 hours of fluff and move on with life (probably a good way to go), or defend mediocrity.



That's why I've become highly critical. and I really don't enjoy it, but I feel it's something that needs to be done more. people are too afraid to speak up today because of the over emotional reaction they usually get where people feel before they think. that's sad too.

It's an absolute JOY to find a movie i have zero problems with and can justgo in and enjoy. most of the time those are marvel movies and cgi animated movies these days.that seems to be where the creativity is gone.

Click to expand...

i think you're way over analyzing things.

I mean, for one, there are what? 70? 80? 90? EU books? more? I mean, seriously, i have 25 or so I quit reading them when they changed the licensee in the late 90's i think...right before the new series/publisher killed Chewie. With that many books, it's 100% IMPOSSIBLE to not have correlations betwen a sequel trilogy and things in the books.

Part of the original story as well was not learning from your mistakes (i.e. your past), the jedi grew so complacent over the years rehashing things over the years and therefore becoming a tame version of their formal selves. Lucas borrowed a lot and he borrowed from history. Are the heroics and sacrifices of those who served in WWI mitigated because rulers made the same dumb ass moves to enable WW2? Is WW2 all the worse because it's a large copy of WW1? And yeah, i know how stupid that sounds, but it happens in real life that history repeats itself and we have recent undeniable proof of it. FFS, we've got people still sore about the freaking Civil War. The whole premise of TFA is entirely plausble as a continuation as much as it looks like a copy because that stuff actually happens in reality.

As for things like luke is off sulking due to his failure, that's pure conjecture. Doesn't mean it won't be true, doesn't mean it will be either. For all we know, he was struggling with light side/dark side/grey thing and this was the event the pushed him to go find out the actual truth behind it. The upshot is, people are trying to fill in the blanks before they're known and then drawing a conclusion.

Ship design...people get too worked up over. We've got lame ass looking planes, boats, cars, etc all over the place. Not everything is a work of art. What some don't like, others do, etc. Once you use the word 'design' it's automatically subjective and all bets are off.

Han died because Harrison wanted out. No more in depth than that. Were you complaining about the exact same thing for TPM when Qui Gon died? The name of the thing is Star WARS, people die in wars. It lacks meaning when 5 starts walk into a room with 4 extras and the 4 extras die. It adds no meaning because no one cares about those guys.

it's not to say TFA was pure gold or TLJ is pure gold either. At this point, though, TLJ is 99.9% unknown.

People say the battle with walkers in the distance means ESB. I'm seasons into clone wars and every planetary fight had the side that would now be the empire using walkers of one sort or another. Plus, who's to say it originates on the planet? Maybe the fleet gets ambushed and tries to hide on the planet? We know there's a space battle in this and there wasn't in ESB.

If there's things that give you concern, fine. There's a couple things that have me concerned as well, but i had the same concerns in TFA and was proved very wrong so i'm willing to wait til i see it and every reason to believe i'll like it at this point.