Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (Post-release)

Yep. Can we all agree that ANH is the story of an orphaned and disillusioned farmboy who gets recruited by an old bearded man, who indoctrinates him with religious stuff in order to carry out a large-scale terrorist attack? ...from a certain point of view. ;)

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To quote a sarcastic Han Solo from ANH : "Nice"

:lol
 
Just saw it last night.

Overall, I really enjoyed it. It struck me as basically what someone in 1988 would've dreamed up as a cool campaign for the West End Games Star Wars RPG, which ends in a total party kill (but victory, nonetheless). Lots of great nods to sourcebook material and such.

My main criticism, so far, is as follows (and apologies if this has been discussed, but I'm not searching through 44 pp of thread to find out if someone else addressed it already).


In ANH, Vader goes into this whole exchange with both Captain Antilles and Leia, where he demands to know what happened to the stolen Death Star plans. He says something to the effect of "Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by Rebel spies. I want to know what happened to the plans they sent you." Both Antilles and Leia try to claim that they're a consular ship on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan, but Vader isn't buying it.

Here's where I see the continuity error pop up.

If we take the events of Rogue One as canon, then EVERYONE knows that this whole line of discussion is just nonsense. Why would Leia or Antilles even try to claim that they're a diplomatic ship? Vader LITERALLY was at the door to their corvette before it escaped Skarif. He knows this is the right ship, and everyone on the ship knows that he knows! The whole deception is rendered utterly pointless because Vader was literally feet away from being ON the ship at Skarif.

The way I see it, the scene with the transmission of the plans should've gone something like this:

- Rogue One transmits plans to the Alliance fleet.
- One ship (pick your ship, but NOT the Tantive IV) manages to hyperspace out in the chaos of battle.
- Vader pursues.
- We then cut to a scene where the escaping ship has jumped to a random system, where we see the Tantive IV off in the distance (not close to the escaping ship).
- We see a sequence inside the ships of the data being transmitted from the escaped ship and the Tantive IV crew receiving it "over the air" so to speak.
- Vader's Star Destroyer (the Devastator) jumps in.
- Cut to interior Destroyer, where an Imperial Comms officer says "We're picking up a signal from the escaped ship. It looks like it was sent to that blockade runner" or something.
- Cut to interior escaped ship, where the captain says "Blast it, they've found us! Tantive IV, get out of here! We'll try to buy you some time. Helm, turn to point 7. Let's make them work for it!" or something.
- Leia's ship hyperspaces out of the system.
- Cut to interior of Tantive IV, and play the scene with Leia saying "Hope" as shot (but *****, do better CGI, will ya? Or just have her shot looking over her shoulder with part of her face obscured by her hood or something.)


See, Leia was supposed to be on a mission to get Obi-Wan, not blowing up the Empire at Skarif. It makes no sense for her to be there, narratively or in terms of continuity. And ANH already establishes this. So, it really ends up looking like they botch some details in the name of little more than fan service.


Other than that, though, I thought the film worked pretty well. It was the Dirty Dozen Parsecs, or the Wild Bunch In Space. Although I'll bet there's a version where a couple folks get off the planet alive somewhere on the cutting room floor.

I can excuse the characters who basically just stop doing what they're doing when their mission is accomplished, mostly because I think they recognize the reality of their situation: this was a one-way trip, and there's no way they're getting home. Most of 'em go down fighting or just sort of freeze because they know their death is imminent and unavoidable. Examples:

- Bodhi dies when a grenade lands in the shuttle. He knows he can't get out in time.
- Chirrut dies after the uplink is made, but he's already one with the Force.
- Baze dies fighting after wiping out the Death Trooper squad, because he sees a grenade that he knows he'll never get away from.
- K2 is destroyed after locking Jyn and Cassian into the data archive.
- Jyn and Cassian die on the beach, knowing they can't escape the blast, but having made their peace with it.

The rest of the faceless mooks pretty much die in action.

In terms of the story, they could've portrayed this differently. For example, Jyn and Cassian could've been racing to get to a shuttle to escape, only to die anyway. To me, that'd seem WAY more bleak and depressing than just having them embrace, knowing that they've won even at the cost of their own lives.
 
@Solo4114 Leia and Capt. Antilles never saw Vader when they left Skarif. It's unclear how long they were traveling to Tatooine when they are jumped by the Devastator. So they try the ruse of claiming to be on a diplomatic mission. Also Vader may not have been aware the plans were literally in the hand of the guy he ran his saber through.
 
@Solo4114 Leia and Capt. Antilles never saw Vader when they left Skarif. It's unclear how long they were traveling to Tatooine when they are jumped by the Devastator. So they try the ruse of claiming to be on a diplomatic mission. Also Vader may not have been aware the plans were literally in the hand of the guy he ran his saber through.

Yeaaaahhh....but it's still kind of a stretch.

It's another one of those things where we now have to invent an explanation why it's not a screwup, rather than the film doing it for us. This is the problem with playing around in an established continuity.
 
There was no weight to any of the deaths... even the main characters.

With the exception of K-2SO (GREAT Character by the way... liked him a lot more round 2) all the characters did their task, and then just sat there waiting to die.

Asian Guy - pulls lever, smiles, dies

Guy who follows him with gun - Shoots a bunch of times... sees a grenade, smiles and dies.

Pilot - sees a grenade come into ship.... looks and dies.

Saw Gerrera - Stands... waits to die.

Jynn and Cassian - Sit and wait to die (not much choice at that point... but whatev)

There's no weight to a death when the character doesn't care about their life either.

And they didn't feel like a group with a bond.... It's interesting because if they had all survived, do ANY of you truly believe they would be a team after this?

Before this movie was the GOTG 2 trailer... now THOSE guys I believe would still hang out after the battle was done. Even in that first movie, I CARED when Groot sacrificed himself.


---

Oh and as a total aside... when Tarkin says to target the archive place at the end of the flick... why did they shoot so far off into the water that they had like 5 minutes to wait for the shock wave to hit it?

Maybe Stormtroopers aren't the only ones who miss.
Man, we are totally on the same wavelength right here. Completely agree. Well said
 
Well they served their purpose for the story and finished their arc as told. I guess what I am saying is that I found that very satisfying and emotional.
Its so funny because you seem like the least emotional guy on these forums based on how cold and calculating your posts are, yet you find the stuff in this movie emotionally stirring. I just wanted to point that out. :lol
 
Again, I think it's more that they realize the hopelessness of the situation, and are content to die on their own terms.

As for the archive shot, eh, close enough. And the intent might also have been to take the fastest shot that would knock out the possible transmission. At that point, they don't know who has the files yet, or whether it's still transmitting. I also think that the angle at which the Death Star appeared above the planet was such that they'd have had to wait to orbit the planet for a few more minutes before shooting, by which point god only knows how many Rebel ships would've gotten the transmission and escaped. Better to just "shoot from the hip," take out the comm tower, and figure that the whole building will be blown away after that by the surface disruption.
 
My guess would be because when most people get caught red handed doing something they know they are going to get into a crap load of trouble for, they are going to try to lie their way out of it, no matter how foolish it makes them look.

This, pretty much.

"If word of this gets out it could generate sympathy for the Rebellion in the Senate." I think Leia and Antilles were counting on this, and had to stick to their story. Vader knows different but he has to prove it as far as the Senate is concerned.

The only part that bothers me is why the Tantive was in the hold of the ship over Scarif, when Leia's mission was to go to Tatooine?
 
The only part that bothers me is why the Tantive was in the hold of the ship over Scarif, when Leia's mission was to go to Tatooine?

maybe when leia told bail they had the plans...bail told them kenobi was alive and decided they needed a jedi to help destroy this death star once and for all.
 
maybe when leia told bail they had the plans...bail told them kenobi was alive and decided they needed a jedi to help destroy this death star once and for all.

Well, Bail planned to send Leia to get Obi-Wan before the Scarif battle, so why would Leia be at Scarif? As someone mentioned earlier Leia getting the plans was incidental, the big rebel ship received the transmission and only passed it on to the Tantive when they were boarded. But why was the Tantive there to begin with?
 
My guess would be because when most people get caught red handed doing something they know they are going to get into a crap load of trouble for, they are going to try to lie their way out of it, no matter how foolish it makes them look.
That's a very interesting point. I don't know if this is what you meant but it's entirely possible that Leia is simply saying this as a threat. Even though both she and Vader know he's after the stolen Death Star plans she's making the issue about whom the Senate would believe - Vader or the Princess.
 
Then why did he shoot into the water, so far away? Was the base there? Why not just shoot right in the center of where everything was?

Okay these may seem like dumb questions... but I really don't get what I was looking at.

If a spider is sitting on my kitchen table, I'm going to throw my grenade at the table, not at the living room couch.

Sure I'll destroy everything anyway, but still....

How about:

Because it's a flipping movie! Not everything is going to make sense or be as you would like it to be.

I know this is the internet and we don't have lives, but really.

The majority of people like it. It has made 2/3 of a Billion dollars already. If you don't like it, that's a shame but get over it, it's just a movie.
 
Let us not forget another reason why the Death Star might not be as precise ... it's an experimental secret weapon that has never been fired before.
 
As much as I like Jedi I'm glad they kept them out of this movie. I like the theme of showing regular soldiers doing their part. If they absolutely had to though it would have fit. Although I really doubt even being an expert of Khyber (sp?) crystals would help you if you were sheltering a Jedi.

This.

I love glowing ball bats as much as anyone. Forsaking my forum name, I have twice the number of sabers to blasters in my collection. But I wanted to see a galaxy without Jedi for once, I loved seeing the "Rebellion" being fractured and probably no real risk involved before this point. I really feel that stealing the DS plans, and the attack/destruction of the 1st DS is what solidified and proved to the galaxy that the Empire could be beat and likely brought more support to the rebels*. But seeing what was probably the heirarchy leadership(and probably Imperial senators), ready to give up makes it look like there isn't a huge commitment yet or maybe they were just getting cold feet.

Also, I liked seeing what was likely the height of the Empire's power and influence. Cold, ruthlessness everywhere and even openly stating tyranny was ok. I hope we get to see more stories during this time.

*I haven't finished season two of "Rebels" so I don't know if it discusses how much support they have or get during the show.
 
"If word of this gets out it could generate sympathy for the Rebellion in the Senate."

I've always wondered why that guy -- no idea who he was, but he seemed clearly to be a low-level officer -- was able to talk to Vader like that, and in that tone of voice. What, did he have a death wish?

A.J.
 
How about:

Because it's a flipping movie! Not everything is going to make sense or be as you would like it to be.

I know this is the internet and we don't have lives, but really.

The majority of people like it. It has made 2/3 of a Billion dollars already. If you don't like it, that's a shame but get over it, it's just a movie.

considering the quoted persons preference to telling me this about another movie of the year (IIRC)...i find this post un intentionally funny ;o).

just had to laugh at the irony. and that we might agree that a movie most people like we both dislike this time around... carry on ;o)

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I've always wondered why that guy -- no idea who he was, but he seemed clearly to be a low-level officer -- was able to talk to Vader like that, and in that tone of voice. What, did he have a death wish?

A.J.
My thought was, at the time, vader was an unknown rumor.


He probably was kept under wraps for secret missions. and then when the senate was gone, became his chief enforcer for terror.

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Let us not forget another reason why the Death Star might not be as precise ... it's an experimental secret weapon that has never been fired before.

Plus, it might not have need to be precise, and was probably never meant to zero in on specific small targets. it's primary purpose was to destroy a planet. doesn't really matter where you aim at something that big :)
 
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