Advice for "Fan Films"

A post in the Star Trek: Continues thread prompted me to start this one about fan films in general.

Over the years I (and I'm sure many of you) have been asked for my opinion on tonnes of fan films ranging from Doctor Who, to Star Wars and Star Trek. Long ago I stopped doing it. Why? Because I do this professionally and therefore critique things professionally as if they were going to air.

To a person who genuinely wants to improve this can be a very good thing but the fact is that the critique usually comes across as harsh and the person on the receiving end, no matter how many times they tell me that they want a professional opinion, always ends up butt hurt. I've discovered that people just want to be told that it's great and because I can't do that I'm just not going to give my opinion. The exception? Something like Star Trek: Continues where I feel free to comment because the quality IS there that I can nit-pick without worry that I'm destroying someone's dream or passion.

When I was 14 I made a bunch of fan films and I never would have dreamed to ask a professional's opinions on them without the prior knowledge that I knew they were crap. We all start somewhere, you just have to know where you are on that ladder.

Having a passion for something is GREAT. Making fan films for you, your family and friends is GREAT. Showing it to other people outside your social group is GREAT provided you don't have any illusions about what it is. I've seen posts on this forum like "Hey, I'm a DP! Check it out" and followed the link to find that no two shots had the same lighting, or were flat, or had different colour temperatures and brightnesses. Fun fact, you weren't a DP, you were the guy who set up some lights and hit record.

SO! I thought I'd start this thread as one that could outline tips to make your fan productions better. Feel free to add your own points! I'll start with a few:


1. DON'T BE SO AMBITIOUS

It's your first fan film and it's going to be more than 5 minutes or so? Sorry, I can almost guarantee you it's going to suck. Take the best scene from your script and shoot just it. TAKE YOUR TIME with it and make it as perfect and engaging as possible. This means shooting the scene over and over and over with different angles and croppings so that you have lots to play with in editing. The worst thing you can do is go into the edit suite with not enough footage.

On that theme, keep it simple so that you are able to shoot in that way. Two guys talking at a bar can be a great scene or a boring one. Most fan films will lock of on a two shot of them and just sit there. BORING. Cutaways to close ups is where you can get more of the acting on the screen and engage your audience. Which brings us to...

2. NOT EVERYONE CAN ACT

Just about everyone seems to think they can but not everyone can act. If you're just making something for fun then this doesn't matter much but if you're shooting something that you hope other people will enjoy you need someone on screen that has at least a little acting ability. This is always difficult to broach as you're usually shooting with your friends and nobody wants to be told that they can't act. If it makes you feel better I can't act worth a damn. Just be wary of it. The only thing that will bring your production down faster is...

3. NOT EVERYONE CAN WRITE

A good script is golden. A fan script, in general, should be pretty light on dialogue. Why? Because fans want every scene to be epic and they always put it into spoken words. Stop talking and start acting. Keep conversation conversational. If what your character is saying isn't something that a real person would say they probably shouldn't be saying it. There are always exceptions but especially when you're starting out keep the dialogue light.

Also, keep the script simple. A complex script read by mediocre actors is going to come across like people reading a book. BORING. Short lines and simple action is going to be much more convincing in your end product.

4. DON'T RELY ON CG

Unless you're George Lucas not every set should be a CG background. Shooting everything on green screen is a great way to save money on fan productions but it results in static cameras with no cuts in scenes, less physical action, poor lighting, etc. etc. etc... It also introduces the problem of not everyone is good at CG. 99 times out of 100 your end product will look VERY fake. Unless used for comedic effect I recommend shooting on a real set or, even better, on location. It will ALWAYS look better.


There are many many more. What other advice do you guys have?

PACING.

There are 3 minute shorts that feel like 20 because of a lack proper pacing.

Show your film to friends and get a feel for how engaged they are. If a scene is dragging and you can sense that you are losing your audience, FIX IT. Don't brush it off.

I'm a professional editor and when we interview people for hiring we actually ask what movies or TV they like... if they aren't really that into movies (and this DOES happen) it is a HUGE mark against them. Watch your movies and shows and get a feel for how the show is edited together. Pacing will KILL your film if you do it wrong.

Does this make sense? I'm half asleep right now.

Story and character: one of the big issues is that when it comes to fan films, they believe action is more important than story and character. Let's use "Star Wars". Most of the fan films often deal with light saber battles and spacecraft battles than they do about characters and story. The same is true with "TRON". All fans assume that "TRON" was about going into a computer system, involving disc wars and light cycles. They forget that you can have a story set in the real world of the film, which we've seen the real world at the start and end of each film. For "Alien" and "Predator" fan films, they focus on battling the titular character, but never focus on what the situation does to the characters, what they feel in the situation and how their psychology is taking the situation.

Most artists & craftsman have their priorities bass-ackwards at the core. The more they enjoy & excel at some part of the process, the more effort & resources they want to put into it. And vice versa. They end up having a lot of fun and the overall results suck.

You wanna really get better at something? Then stop having so much fun doing it. Start focusing on the parts of the process that you dread.

Michael Bergeron: yes please, I want to be flogg… more infos :lol . Because our Trekdinner Fan Film in Germany is/was currently too ambitious in script, have practically a non existant budget (well, we scrape the money together), we have thrown out 45 min of story to 15 min., we can shoot, when everyone is availabe du to work/time/etc…

What we have: a room, plenty green screen, a Pro (!) CGI GFX guy, a Semi-pro Camera Man

The questions I have, from a bystander/small contributer to GFX dept.:

- What budgetary planning has to be done beforehand before filming anything?
- How open should ALL participants be regarding tips and recommendation from a pro like you? I had a hard time communicating certain aspects of the length of the movie, script-length (1 page = 1 min), etc. I'll go into details in a PM - in short, I gave up and cut my contribution to a minimum.
- Props. Budget vs. Look…? What choice?
- Pre-Production? What needs to be done after scripting? See Q 1.

YCL, you need a producer

This is so complex, you guys should first read just one book: "rebel without a crew" and then work from there

Most important thing on a no-budget-movie: catering. Because how are you going to budget a movie without any money?
Then, chop the script down to 10 minutes. Less dialogue, more visual storytelling. Cut out as much exposition as you can. Golden rule "Late in, early out", i.e. e.g. if a character needs to appear in a scene (walk-on) and has to take more than two steps, then thats just too much.

The rest, improvise the heck out of it.

I can tell you a lot about how to use sets and locations without having to build much but still convince everyone that you are there are ST academy or somewhere else, just shoot me a pm or the script. Due to my personal situation I can´t work as an art director anymore, but I´d like to give you some input for solutions or even make suggestions for locations. I haven´t been around Aachen for quite some time, but still may have a few ideas

If you get someone who knows what they are doing, or at least is willing to learn off the set, you can do a lot with green screen that isn't entirely static. It takes longer to shoot on green screen with a single camera since you have to redo the lighting when repositioning the camera, but it can be done with edits that make it look far more fluid than a static shot.

I admit this may come off as harsh or slightly elitist, but at the end of the day, you're still going to end up with a whole heap of films that do nothing but show off what the people making them don't know about the finer details of how to effectively tell a story with moving imagery. Many people will never be able to grasp the importance of sometimes needing to cut just a few frames in a shot that will make or break a scene or the flow and rhythm of camera movements and patterns in dialog.

I think one of the biggest problems is that most fan films try to reach too far. They try to be "serious" pieces of entertainment and the more you try, the more ambitious they are, the more the lack of skill and/or resources becomes apparent. They try to "force" drama where it should come naturally, they try to do action scenes without the understanding or capability to do them within their means. The tendency for melodrama (even in subtle ways) in "fan films" ruins about 99.999% of them.

The most effective fan films are those that "play" with their core concepts. Once of the best ones (though it IS kinda showing its age these days) is still Troops, because it takes the subject matter and has FUN with it, being clever and not trying to be too serious. It works within the scope it had available. How many fan films have we seen that simply make badly veiled, horribly executed carbon-copies of what they are trying to do? We don't need to see another "rag tag cargo ship crew" in the Firefly universe or another smuggler-with-a-companion in Star Wars or whatever, because there's no way for a fan film to even come close to doing the original subject matter justice.

It's not just fan films either. I'm a producer in the games industry and am often heard saying that nine out of ten so-called "story driven" games are made by people that would rather be working in film or television and are as skillfully executed (dramatically) as a typical c-grade direct-to-video film. There are very few games that don't make me cringe when I am subjected to their attempts at immersing me in a story. Game designers are often notoriously inept at knowing what they can actually achieve with the game they are currently making.

If you're making a fan film, understand your limitations in both skill and technical means, don't seriously try to directly copy or be as good as the subject matter you are "borrowing". Keep asking the questions "Is this part absolutely necessary?, "Am I adding to this universe or just trying to walk exactly in someone's footsteps?" and "Will others like this or am I really just doing it for myself?"

Also, read Syd Fields' (RiP) screenwriting books, Steven D Katz's books on staging scenes and finally David Mamet's "On Directing Film". Those are three very good sources for learning some of the finer points of visual storytelling. Another good source of ideas on craftsmanship is actually the making-of documentaries for Alien and (even better) Aliens, because they show the absolute genius of a young James Cameron and can help you start thinking of ways to craft what you are trying to do without taking tempting (though boring) short cuts. Pay special attention to the parts where they talk about creative editing and in-camera tricks, like when Ripley and Newt are chased by a facehugger in the medical bay, because they showcase simple yet smart solutions that look a lot more real (and will probably be more satisfying) than slapping on some digital trickery.

Some of the best fan films I've seen have been in a "preview" or "trailer" format. If you're successful with that, you can shop it around as a demo to get a job or the financing for a full length version (i.e.: "Machete" the joke trailer in Rodriguez/Taratino's "Grindhouse" translated into a full length feature or the 80's sci-fi fantasy/comedy "The Wizard of Speed and Time" which started out as a short subject).

I think some people are overlooking the reasoning behind fan films. Many times, it's just some people who want to have fun in that fandom, with no hopes of making it 'successful' in any sort of monetary way. In fact, if that was the case, we wouldn't pick things we couldn't get funding on or make any money on. So I think it's important to remember that there are many types of fan films just as there are many fandoms that have them. Plus with some, you have to be careful because you're playing in someone else's sandbox. For a Trek fan series/film, you are supposed to have lowered production values on purpose, simply because anyone who in the past has come out with a product that is too 'good' can be shut down, and it has happened. You run the risk of getting the C&D letter if they feel it rivals a series. Now, when this has happened in the past, it was while there was still a Trek series on television and they may be more lax on it now, but there are still restrictions, like you won't ever see a fan film/series in the JJ-Trek-verse, etc.

So just remember that many fan films aren't trying to be 'good' or 'marketable' or any of that. It's just people wanting to have fun in that universe, maybe pick up some experience in front of or behind a camera. Fan films aren't typically where professionals go to actively further their professional career.

That's not to say that fan film people don't try to be GOOD, just that their aims for success are far different than what a studio's would be.

Edit to add:
I realized after posting this that it might sound like advice isn't appreciated. It definitely *IS* and as a filmmaker outside of my fan series, I love educating myself more and more from any source I can find. I just wanted to point out to those who watch fan stuff that the intent isn't always to have it be the highest quality, and even having lowered production values requires sooooo much work for no pay from everyone involved, so you shouldn't dismiss something offhand just because you don't think it looks professional enough to be on TV. This is just for anyone reading the thread. I think everyone who has commented so far really has a good understanding of that so I'm not trying to like contradict anything or anyone.

I have only seen one or two fan film which I actually really enjoyed as they were very well done in most aspects.

The first is the classic "Troops" followed by "I.M.P.S The Relentless". Both done by the same people.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

mistymills makes a good point about some films just being made among friends for the fun of making them.

...but those, then, should just be distributed among those friends. When they're posted publicly their worthiness for public presentation is appropriately subject to evaluation.

To echo earlier sentiments about writing, I must emphasize BE CONSISE. Every line, EVERY LINE must advance the story. Don't give a piece of information more than once...twice MAX if you think it might be missed the first time. Avoid long narratated or textual intros and asides into backstory unless it's absolutely essential for the rest of the piece to make sense. By all means have a history written out for your own reference, but not everything in your "series bible" has to be revealed in the story.

The same advice for blocking/direction and editing. As they say on Monty Python, "Get on with it!" Keep it brisk. Using Trek as an example, do we need to watch a character walk all the way across the bridge before speaking? Can they talk from where they are, or at least talk while they're walking? Do we need to see the entire process of using the turbolift? Do we need to see the entire dematerialization process every time they use the transporter? Do we need to see the transporter room at all? Yes, sometimes a little "air" is good, but keep in mind when it's appropriate and when it's just dragging things down.

Remember how the SW prequels have an inordinate amount of scenes devoted to lovingly documenting a ship making a landing? It's cool FX gee whiz stuff, but we get it, ships land, cut to the guy walking off the landing platform or whatever.

If you watch MST3K, you'll know they riff on unnecessary walking scenes. Getting from place to place is among the most tedious portions of any film unless done creatively. Tighten.

Well, there's a lot of don't and some REALLY good advice here. Take it to heart.

BUT, don't let it overshadow one of the most important rules of art: Art that exists always beats art that would be good if we ever got around to doing it.

At some point just go for it. It may not be great your first time, but you'll probably learn more from that first attempt than from any amount of message boards.

Treadwell said:

Do we need to see...

Click to expand...

That is one reason why I recommended David Mamet's book above. It's basically a transcript from a series of lectures breaking down a scene into components and it delves into the importance of things and what you effectively need to communicate. The first (and second) time I read it, my reaction was to become angry at what was being communicated. However, after mulling it over, a lot of it started to make sense.

mistymills

Absolutely. This thread is more for folks looking to make their product better or gain wider consumption as many of these fan films seem to be wanting to do. They have websites and youtube channels and it seems many of them WANT the type of success that say, Star Trek Continues has.

I don't ever want to dissuade folks from doing something that they're passionate about. I just want to have a thread of tips and tricks for if they want others outside their circle to enjoy it.

Yes, this is true. I'm also sure I'm not the only person who has a certain standard for their fan film work and a much different standard for other stuff. I usually tend to have actual sets and a budget on non-fan projects.

Treadwell said:

mistymills makes a good point about some films just being made among friends for the fun of making them.

...but those, then, should just be distributed among those friends. When they're posted publicly their worthiness for public presentation is appropriately subject to evaluation.

To echo earlier sentiments about writing, I must emphasize BE CONSISE. Every line, EVERY LINE must advance the story. Don't give a piece of information more than once...twice MAX if you think it might be missed the first time. Avoid long narratated or textual intros and asides into backstory unless it's absolutely essential for the rest of the piece to make sense. By all means have a history written out for your own reference, but not everything in your "series bible" has to be revealed in the story.

The same advice for blocking/direction and editing. As they say on Monty Python, "Get on with it!" Keep it brisk. Using Trek as an example, do we need to watch a character walk all the way across the bridge before speaking? Can they talk from where they are, or at least talk while they're walking? Do we need to see the entire process of using the turbolift? Do we need to see the entire dematerialization process every time they use the transporter? Do we need to see the transporter room at all? Yes, sometimes a little "air" is good, but keep in mind when it's appropriate and when it's just dragging things down.

Remember how the SW prequels have an inordinate amount of scenes devoted to lovingly documenting a ship making a landing? It's cool FX gee whiz stuff, but we get it, ships land, cut to the guy walking off the landing platform or whatever.

If you watch MST3K, you'll know they riff on unnecessary walking scenes. Getting from place to place is among the most tedious portions of any film unless done creatively. Tighten.

Click to expand...

See also: rock climbing.

I'm not a professional storyteller (or even much of an amateur one), but when I've taken a stab at writing stuff, the one thing I've come to realize is that what I think is essential....probably ain't. That said, I can see a value (if you have the time and the ability) in including a whole bunch of stuff, provided you're also willing to ruthlessly cut it out later to make things flow.

Going back to the Star Wars films, as an example, consider the Jabba scene from the first film. In the whole "The Making of a Saga" behind-the-scenes documentary shown on PBS in the 80s, they explained that this scene was cut because they didn't have the f/x to do it right. In my opinion, even if they'd had a full, working, slithering Jabba, the scene should still have been cut simply because the scene repeats a huge amount of dialogue from the preceding Greedo scene. Similar deal with the still-cut stuff detailing Luke's life on Tatooine (where Biggs shows up, Cammie and Fixer, etc.). All that stuff is just reiterating that Luke dreams of leaving and otherwise leads a mundane life, all of which is communicated perfectly well in the scenes that actually made it into the movie. Luke wants to hang out with his friends, Owen won't let him, Luke wants to transfer to the Academy, Owen won't let him, Luke has to do chores he doesn't like, etc. It's all dealt with pretty neatly without introducing yet more characters who won't matter.

That said, it's worth including all of those scenes in a rough draft because who knows which ones you'll want to keep and which become extraneous? Maybe you keep certain scenes/bits because they inform on the story later. Imagine a draft of the film that includes Luke running into Biggs on Tatooine, and then again on Yavin, only to watch Biggs die in the trench run? What kind of emotional impact would that have had, if they'd kept those scenes punchier and quicker (instead of what ended up being filmed)?


Also, with the prequels, I'd argue that the entire first film and large portions of the 2nd are extraneous stuff that could be cut. But that's a separate issue.

Anyway, my main point here is that often less is more, and that the stuff that a writer thinks is VITAL to the story is really just self-indulgent fluff that slows things down.

joatrash said:

That is one reason why I recommended David Mamet's book above. It's basically a transcript from a series of lectures breaking down a scene into components and it delves into the importance of things and what you effectively need to communicate. The first (and second) time I read it, my reaction was to become angry at what was being communicated. However, after mulling it over, a lot of it started to make sense.

Click to expand...

What made you angry, if you don't mind my asking?

Solo4114 said:

What made you angry, if you don't mind my asking?

Click to expand...

Oh, I was young(er)... full of myself and was gonna show all them ol' codgers how the new generation of movies was gonna be done! I think the book came off as very pretentious in a know-it-all fashion to my younger self. (I hadn't made the grand discovery of the virtues of irony back then.) But after a while it dawned on me how right it was after all. It made me mad enough to think about things. Damn, I think I need to go and read it again- it's been a few years!

Gotta second what I read above about "Rebel without a Crew", Robert Rodriguez's book. Phenomenal, should be taught in film school, if it isn't already.

Fan films are fine, but I REALLY believe you should take your love for something like Star Wars, Trek, whatever, and create your own universe. I know some people aren't doing it to get into the industry, just to live out the world of the movies they love, but imagine creating your own web series for a property you came up with and THAT caught on.

Spend your time, creativity and money to introduce something new to the world.

Looking at the bigger film world of Hollywood, would you rather have remade Battlestar Galactica, or created Firefly?

I've read all invalueable (!) comments so far, guess I look for the book. Problem is, to be blunt as I told DfN in a PM, it's too far in progress right now, I've backed down my support to a minimum, since we're here very honest: I don't see this thing fly. Periode. The guys that had the idea,hammered a script, one of them is a dominant ass, a know-it-all, not open to input. They headed into this venture with no proper planning, hoping for the best and expected to show this to a larger audience.