Custom Saber Shop - anyone know anything about them?

I am pretty sure that this will probably bring down some kind retribution of the verbal persuasion.

This bickering is pointless. I am not here to argue, and I am not here to "troll"

I've been a member here for a while, and I do peruse this site QUITE often. I may not have the most impressive post counts that some of you do, and I really don't care about post counts. What I care about is seeing a hobby that I enjoy, being turned into something ugly by something so trivial. I'm pretty sure that you are going to go on another of your dissertations, filled with impressive verbiage such a "recaster", and "Mr. 3-post"

Really, you are above that Mr. Shima. We all are, and I don't see anything more trollish than someone coming into a topic that was supposed to be asking advice on TCSS, and then posting a load of libelous tripe, about someone's business tactics, all because they found a niche, and are making money on it. You are basically saying that anyone that buys from them is morally deficient and should be banished to the ninth level of the inferno.

Tim's main income from TCSS is PARTS that he sells for saber HILTS. NOT sound boards. I am well aware of your trifle squabbles with Ultra, and really it seems to me that you are using those past events to fuel everything in your quest for dominion over the the saber areas.

Even when people are trying to be civil with you, you automatically start with the rebuttal on the offensive. Why is that? Is it really so hard to not come across with the flippancy that you do sir? Please indulge us with your outlook. Or is it going to be the same tired old mud-slinging that we have seen for three years or more on the very subject?

Trolls smell their own kind sir.

Jim is using the word "recaster" to inflame people, because that is such a dirty word here. It's the worst thing you can call someone on this board.

How is it recasting, when it only involves one component, the accelerometer, on a differently designed circuit board, and it's not programmable on the other sound boards? Isn't that what Jim's patent is about? :confused

There's enough room in this hobby for all the saber parts and board suppliers. There are people who to want to own an example of each of the various technologies.

I see no reason for Jim to alienate people with his written tirades. That's not going to make people want to do business with him. :unsure

Trust me, I know what recaster means. :lol

The revisionist history I read above is, of course, expected. Let me crawl out of the pile on and rebut. :lol

In your pair of shoes I am the enemy and nothing but. In my shoes you guys sit there bashing me for doing what anyone else would do if you were in my shoes.

I have been villified left and right for years regarding sabers. I could never figure out why. Fanboys saying I photoshopped all my images. It was a train wreck. I let it slide for a long time and just did my own thing. I didnt want to even get into saber stuff and still dont. I stay partially engaged just because I like having bright sabers. If I cared that much I would of grown a full-time business, like some of the people you defend.

The sound board debacle went too far. That was pretty much thrown back in my face when I tried to work with the businesses/people making sound board based on my patented design. They had no respect for the IP or anything - it was basically taking something from someone, not even saying thank you, and making a profit off of it. So how would you have me feel?

No matter how you slice it, it is recasting in the highest degree - digital recasting, IP theft, call it what you want. Its actually WORSE than recasting. Pick a name that fits. If you cant even see that, I am not sure what else to do. We can agree to disagree and move on. I am sure you guys have been fed a regular diet of misinformation and have prejudgments based on doublespeak and tripe served up at other forums. Over the years I grown impatient for engaging the gaggles of naysayers. On other forums I have had threads deleted, biased mods delete posts, pot shots taken from mods in threads, basically poor form all around - even for a hobby internet forum.

And yes, this is a hobby and I try and treat it as such. But businesses pop up that take advantage of the good willed. This hobby seems to attract many bad apples. I did pay a large amount of money for the IP in the form of a patent for accelerometer-based sound boards. Simple as that. So I do care who uses it, especially if they publically bash me in the process of stealing it. It is called principle, and there hasnt been any from what I have seen on the other saber forums.

Look, I am not here to sell you things and act like I like you. I am here because I enjoy(ed) the hobby. I call a spade a spade. You can try to play the "he's a bad guy so dont do business with him" angle, but that is coming from posters who already come to the defense of shady business types. :confused If you choose not to do any business with me based on the fact that I stand for my principles of protecting IP and artist interests, then so be it. I would wear that as a badge of honor. Like I said, I dont do this to put food on my table.

I fully expect more T4BB-like nonsensical dogpiling from the teenposters. But I am also willing to talk civil to those who want honest discourse. Just leave any agendas at the door and realize that, maybe, things arent all what you think they are. You may think I am coming off as abrasive, but you dont realize how much of this crap I have had to endure. You think you are the only ones sick of all this? You simply want me to let the thieves be so things can get back to the norm? What world are you living on, where victims have to forgive the criminals in order to make things right? If you are truly just trying to help, talk to the people who are perpetuating this stuff. Dont shoot the messenger.

Anyway, I think I have said enough. If anyone has questions or wants to talk feel free to email me.

Fair enough.

You know, I actually expected a lot worse of a reply.

It is not my intention to dogpile. That's below both of us here, and really bad for everyone. Would you be privy to accept an email from me? I mean no offense, but I would much rather speak with you directly than someone else.

It does involve a possible purchase, as well as perhaps to discuss things civilly about a matter that I feel is important. Honestly, I think it is about time you and I had the chance to converse civilly in private about a great many things, and I am willing to do so if you are.

I ask you this on neutral ground.

I think there are a few people who need to step away from the keyboard for a few minutes and just relax.

I am talking to all parties here, not any individual.

-Bryan

Here is a reply from Mr. 1 post. I am relieved to read the discussion here. I moderate a forum in which this entire situation created more work for me than I ever wanted to have. This is a hobby. I create within this hobby and have done so for the last half-decade. I also am a scientist who creates medical IP's. This argument is as old as the free market system. My opinion, though new to the folks here, is likely the most experienced with regard to this topic that has ever responded. To someone who creates technologies used to enrich lives and holds numerous U.S. patents, the idea that someone not in business for profit would be reluctant to share his/her IP is the proverbial "head scratcher". We are talking about a hobby, correct? If this IP is feeding this gentleman's family, then everyone here needs to lay off, but if he is a hobbyist, then he needs to lighten up and share this IP graciously. Who cares if others profit from it? If someone uses one of my hobby technologies and profits from it, I certainly do not care. As a matter of fact, I am flattered. There will always be room within each niche hobby for the pioneers. The creator's product will always be "in demand" by those in the know. Who among us would not want a Larbel Obi-Wan AOTC replica for example, but this does not mean that we would not also want a nice custom prop by a small builder. I look at this as a topic that has no relevance to the hobby and causes many people a great deal of frustration. I feel for hyperdyne here, but I also feel for TCSS, Ultrasabers and Plecterlabs. If all it would take is an acknowledgment of the concept's progenitor, then let's get that done and move on because I, for one, want to enjoy my hobbies!

bbabich, good advice. I did step away to allow cooler heads to prevail.

I would gladly talk to you DM in email. No problem with me, as try my best to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. This has been such a polarizing issue that it is hard not to go to defcon 2 right out of the gate.

At any rate, I dont think this is the venue for me to go into why I protect the IP I own, just note that I have the legal right to do so. Enough said as I dont want to belabor the point...

hyperdyne said:

At any rate, I dont think this is the venue for me to go into why I protect the IP I own, just note that I have the legal right to do so. Enough said as I dont want to belabor the point...

Click to expand...

You are dealing with a different group of people than you were 5 or 6 years ago. Maybe if you invested a little energy in educating those of us who are still neutral as to WHY you are reluctant to share a hobby IP, then you would not have to be attacked so often. I mean, why limit the hobby that you so obviously once loved? Foster it, enrich it, contribute to it and take that knowledge as your satisfaction. I guarantee that it would not only garner you more deserved respect, but likely an increased market share!

If anybody wants to e-mail me about my experience on the situation they can. Been making working sabers for over 10 years. Before Parks, Lightech, Ultra, TCSS, and Erv. I've seen plasma, (El)ectroluminescent, luxeon, and led-strip from each iteration. (See bellow for proof. Not my first auction) I've been into "working" saber building for a while so I've seen it all. Darth Morbius/Darth Tyranus you are welcome to e-mail me too. The bellow auction page is legit. You can still contact the buyer through Ebay. My seller e-mail address doesn't work anymore. This was back in the day when they didn't hide the sellers e-mail address. I don't have 13 feedback anymore. The buyer has a lot more then 19. Man time flies. :confused

I remember those days..

So...as someone else responded and yet Jim hasn't answered...

Simply put...why haven't you taken the necessary legal steps to defend the IP in court, and serve a Cease and Desist against the infringing parties?

Why only have your mouthpiece VeRo auctions off ebay, where it doesn't cost you anything, and Ebay's VeRo policy doesn't require PROOF. They just require a written confirmation that there MIGHT be IP involved.

I know that if I saw someone selling similar products to the two products my business partner and I have patented, we would immediately serve a C&D.


So again...it would be great if on ONE OF THE FORUMS where this reasoning has been requested, there would be a response.

Again, not dogpiling, trying to understand the logic of the selective attacks by one Mark Cheng.

Then again, perhaps you aren't the one doing all the VeRoing Jim. Like you said, you are focusing on other things.

Oh, BTW, I give credit where it is due. I am very impressed with Jim's electronics for his Vader system and also his lightsabers. The sabers are quite bright and nothing compared to them until the recent advent of Makatosai's blades. It will be interesting to now have two vendors doing the LED string setup that are duelable.

Darth Raijlin said:

So...as someone else responded and yet Jim hasn't answered...

Click to expand...

What is it that hasn't been answered by Jim that you want answered? :confused

Darth Raijlin said:

Simply put...why haven't you taken the necessary legal steps to defend the IP in court, and serve a Cease and Desist against the infringing parties?

Click to expand...

Simply put...It's Jim prerogative if and when he chooses to C&D. That's what I figure. How do you know if he has or hasn't yet. It is possible that a C&D has been issued by Jim's attorney, but the infringing parties are just ignoring said C&D. Legal steps are not little steps, they're huge. It takes time and money. Why hasn't Ultra and Erv sued over the Vero'ing? You make it sound like Jim has to turn himself in for a crime when he hasn't committed a crime.

If you have been Vero'ed you can sue Ebay if you want for wrongful termination of your auction I think. I'm not a lawyer though. But it would be a quicker way to find out if you are in the right.

Darth Raijlin said:

Why only have your mouthpiece VeRo auctions off Ebay, where it doesn't cost you anything, and Ebay's VeRo policy doesn't require PROOF. They just require a written confirmation that there MIGHT be IP involved.

Click to expand...

I think you answered your own question here. Vero'ing is cheaper and more cost effective. If you think it's dirty and underhanded then I suggest you look toward the past on how folks accepted the idea of LED-strip sabers as being a worthy option for a blade. You haven't met the folks I've encountered. Then again maybe you have. You will find a lot of dirty fighting and unnecessary banning of individuals who spoke up about the truth against the deceptions. You will find that folks have put up "comparison" videos boldface lying about the brightness of Hyperblades. Also lying about tips breaking off their Hyperblades as if it was recorded live. When in reality it broke of a day before. Acted out to paint the picture of poor workmanship. That's the very definition of deception. If you truly want the "other side of the story" then do your homework. So far your comments don't communicate to me that you have. Contact Eandori on YouTube and ask him what he thought of Greytale's interpretation of seeing a Hyperblade next to a Luxeon in person. You will find it contrasts to Eandori's assessment.

Have you registered an IP with Ebay before? How can you unequivocally say Ebay doesn't require proof if you haven't gone through the experience of registering an IP with Ebay completely? I don't want to make assumptions, but do you currently have an IP? I don't, but I have been Vero'ed before and asked to be informed of the complete registration requirements. Which they gladly informed me of.

On this Ebay doesn't require PROOF BS: That can be simply answered if you are willing to do some of your own legwork. If you fill out this form: http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/NOCI1.pdf
and you tell Ebay you own the IP to Mickey Mouse. Keep in mind there are consequences of filling this document falsely. Hence the words, "UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY". in the form.
I guarantee you will get Ebay asking you to provide proof of ownership of your IP/Mickey Mouse. If it were so simple to get an auction Vero'ed then every Tom, Dick, and Harry would be able to claim IP ownership to popular IPs. Do you see the logic or do you refuse to see the logic in this? You pound the "Ebay doesn't require proof drum", because you I don't think you have done your OWN research. That is the only explanation to your use of this false argument. There's also the short path to the answer to the whole "Ebay doesn't require PROOF" debate. It can be found in the title of the program: Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) Program.
I wonder what Ebay has to verify?
Just in case you don't know what the word verify means:



http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/verify

1. To substantiate or prove the truth of something
2. (transitive) To confirm or test the truth or accuracy of something

There's actually three definitions listed in wikitionary, but I thought two maybe sufficient.



It's evident to me you haven't done your homework. There's only one person who has authority to Vero an auction. It's the IP owner. My name Mark Cheng is not on the IP in question. I do not have power of attorney nor have the authority to Vero any auction. I do not currently own any IPs. That being said. Just ask anyone who's had their auction Vero'ed it clearly states who Vero'ed the auction. THE FREAKING IP OWNER. Darth Tyranus had a reply from Ebay after his auction got Vero'ed and posted it on fx-sabers. He conveniently deleted the post, because someone asked for clarification asking why it doesn't say Mark Cheng in Ebay's response/explanation of the Vero. The member never had his question answered. Instead Darth Tyranus/Darth Morbius had the post purged and deleted. I think that's sad. Simply to conform to his propaganda. I'm sure it's hard to swallow for you, but I assure you underhanded stuff like this happens.

Darth Raijlin said:

I know that if I saw someone selling similar products to the two products my business partner and I have patented, we would immediately serve a C&D

Click to expand...

Where's your proof that a C&D has NOT been issued? On the same token I'm glad to see you are willing to defend your IP if you own a patent with your business partner. All this talk is simply that, TALK. Why don't you let the law naturally handle itself in court if the two parties do decide to battle it out in court. I guess it's always easier to pass judgment as a bystander with no stake involved.

Darth Raijlin said:

So again...it would be great if on ONE OF THE FORUMS where this reasoning has been requested, there would be a response.

Click to expand...

That's hard to do. Due to the fact we've been banned or treated unfairly by these biased forums. For simply correcting lies, standing up to defamation of our character, or for simply posting a picture that clearly cancels out words of deception. They didn't want to talk to us before why now I wonder? Every attempt to discuss these matters civilly has just ended poorly. Just recently I received a friend request from DarthMorbius on YouTube. I asked him to explain himself, because I thought the request was out of character for him. He replied with:

"Oops, meant to hit the "block" button.
No, I don't think I want to chat with you actually.
Have a nice day. "

That was sent to me 21 hours ago.
It's also a waste of time to respond in these other forums, because of the abuse of power I have experienced. My posts get deleted. Or posts that moderators make get deleted, manipulated, moved around, or banned. DarthTyranus/DarthMorbius recent typical actions in one day:
I kid you not, he:

1) Removed an entire section of fx-sabers (Hyperdyne section).
2) Deleted Hyperdyne as a guild member.
3) Requested members to not flame or stoke the fire when he himself initiated the spark.
4) Got his moderator status remove and then re-instated.

All this in the same day.

Darth Raijlin said:

Again, not dogpiling, trying to understand the logic of the selective attacks by one Mark Cheng.

Click to expand...

Here's a clue to the answer to the selective attacks argument. Short answer: It's not selective. I doubt nothing will convince you otherwise, but here's an attempt: It's all auctions that violate the owner's IP. If you see one slip by....This can be explained in the following. Ever lose an auction due to the fact you thought it was Tuesday when the auction ended on a Monday. Or that your misspelled what you were searching. Why are you jumping to the negative like every typical person in the other camp? I found out after the fact that one of our own Hyperblade customers got Vero'ed. I don't have evidence of our customers Ebay username. Unaware that our own customer got Vero'ed, but you can ask Jedimoves on fx-sabers about it. If that doesn't prove to the contrary I don't know what will. If it bothers you so much you can help minimize the auctions that slip by simply clicking on the "e-mail to friend" link and send it to Jim. If you continue to spread this argument then...YES you are dogpiling.

Darth Raijlin said:

Then again, perhaps you aren't the one doing all the VeRoing Jim. Like you said, you are focusing on other things.

Click to expand...

I explained this to you before on this above. I think it needs another go at it. :unsure

How eBay helps to ensure that listings aren’t mistakenly removed. A rights owner reporting through VeRO must be registered through VeRO before reporting items to us. Rights owners sign legally binding documents when reporting items to eBay.

Above taken straight from: http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/programs-vero-ov.html

Darth Raijlin said:

Oh, BTW, I give credit where it is due. I am very impressed with Jim's electronics for his Vader system and also his lightsabers. The sabers are quite bright and nothing compared to them until the recent advent of Makatosai's blades. It will be interesting to now have two vendors doing the LED string setup that are duelable.

Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing that. :thumbsup I think Jim's work speaks for itself. Folks seem to have the most issue with the saber stuff. His other stuff he works on is really awesome too.

Please don't take any of my attempts at explaining your concerns and questions personal. I've been told that I can be a little abrasive. If you feel that I've insulted you in anyway let me know and I will re-evaluate what I wrote. Most of the above was free flowing. I tried to truncate a lot of personal feelings out in my explanations. It is a lot.
Kindly please do not repost the above text to other forums without my consent. Thanks.

Mark,

I don't need to be chastized by you with your "superior" intellect by defining to me what a word means.

When I stated that Ebay doesn't require proof, simply put they DON'T. They require PROOF that a member owns the IP. Yes, you must go through the registration process to ensure that you do have a valid IP.

They DO NOT require proof that an alleged auction violates the IP of another individual. The IP Owner simply notifies/tags the auction to Ebay, and then Ebay pulls the auction because they practice a policy of liability avoidance.

PERIOD.

END OF STORY.

I know this as FACT because I have SEEN the emails of VeROed auctions from numerous members of the FX-Sabers Forum.

Ebay specifically states that if the auction was pulled in error, to please contact Jim Shima. They also state that they do not get involved in disputes involving IP rights.

So, as I stated...they simply pull the auction to avoid any legal liability on THEIR end.

I'm not bashing Jim and being a fanboy of the FSM. I think all the technologies have their purposes. Personally, I would have loved to own one of the V2 blades and not complained about the prices, however due to certain business aspects of that company, and the people's actions and conduct that represent Jim's company, I would not buy a product due to it.

In regards to your comments about Darth Tyranus, you should make sure you have done YOUR homework first before spouting off false statements.

He did NOT get his moderator position revoked and reinstated. The particulars involved are not of any concern for anyone outside the Council on FX-Sabers, but had nothing to do with the Hyperdyne issue or whatever you were getting at.

He also did NOT revoke Hyperdyne as being a G.U.I.L.D. member because only admins have that authority and ONLY Yoda and Sidious have that power, of which NEITHER of them removed Hyperdyne from the G.U.I.L.D. He was always considered a member, even when the topics had been temporarily moved.

Yes, Jim's threads had been temporarily MOVED (not deleted) and are in the midst of moving some of them back.

BTW...I'll just copy/paste my final thoughts from my post from the RS because it yet agains points towards the selective battles that are being chosen.

Do you plan on VeRoing ebay auctions involving the iPod because they utilize an internal accelerometer and even have the iSaber program that people can utilize. I mean, they ARE using the internal accelerometer in the iPhone to register and deliver sound for some applications, so it does violate your "patent".

Maybe you should contact Steve Jobs of Apple directly and issue a Cease and Desist to him. Something tells me you won't though.

Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what the patent number is that covers the Hyperdyne board?

I am curious about this and looking for information to come to my own informed conclusion.

Thanks.

plane crazy said:

out of curiosity, does anyone know what the patent number is that covers the hyperdyne board?

I am curious about this and looking for information to come to my own informed decision.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

6,150,947

My interpretation of Hyperdyne's patent is that its independent claims cover any invention that must include the following, but is not limited to:
- an accelerometer with two axes, where both are used.
- one or more "sound effects", that can be started.
- the output of the accelometer is calculated, and the outcome of that calculation selects whether to start any particular sound effect or not.

I am not a patent lawyer, but I have to read a lot of US patents in the line of my job.
My interpretation is that you could construct a sound module that would not be covered by the patent, if you either:
- Used another type of motion/clash sensor than an accelerometer (like MR and Hasbro did), or:
- Used only one axis from an accelerometer, or:
- Instead of selecting discrete sound effects, the module would emit a continuous sound that is modulated by the output from the motion sensor.

From what I have been told, in an email from Erv Plecter (my first and last email from the guy, years ago ... Please keep your conspiracy theories for yourselves), that even though Erv Plecter says that he does not think so, his first sound module (that he described to me) could very well be covered by Hyperdyne's patent. It does use an accelerometer. I get the impression that it uses at least two axes, maybe three. It uses prerecorded sound, selected from a calculation of the output of the accelerometer.

I think that the "recasting" analogy is misguiding, because Erv Plecter most likely did construct his circuits independently of any description.
If we are going to use an analogy relevant to the prop world, then I think that the "studio license" analogy is more appropriate. Erv Plecter's work was more like an unlicensed fan sculpt. If Erv Plecter had bought one of Hyperdyne's circuits, copied the firmware from the microcontroller and etched identical circuit boards, then that would have been recasting. But I think that would be more trouble than it is worth.
If you know of an accelometer, have knowledge of high school physics, know the basic of electronics and software and want to construct a sound module, then a design similiar to Hyperdyne's patented design will be the first draft design that you make. I once made such a design, also without knowing anything about how Hyperdyne's sound module worked. But the patented design is quite primitive. I discarded my first design in favor of a new one, that, incidentally, was not covered by the patent. (See how to avoid the patent, above. However, I could not afford the surface mounting equipment required for the only accelerometer that was available to me at the time, so I never built it ... and I later lost interest in sabers with blades. I read Hyperdyne's patent for the first time a couple of years afterwards.)
Erv Plecter's algorithms are more advanced, since they also contain the time aspect (according to himself). And I am sure that Hyperdyne himself also has made many improvements during the years that were not in the patent.

Also, I don't think that a patent filed in the US would be automatically valid in France, where Erv Plecter lives and works. So it might be perfectly legal for him to sell as many sound modules over there as he likes, as long as he does not sell them to the US.

If someone finds "prior art": something that was published or sold before the patent's filing date, that works in the same way, then the patent can be successfully contested in court, rendering it worthless.
I believe that there might exit some "prior art" to the independent claims: some sort of circuit that chirps when an acceleration in two axes reaches a certain threshold. It could be any type of application, such as.. maybe an air bag deployment control circuit in an automobile. However, Hyperdyne's patent also contains additional claims that cover the use of the contraption for use as a "toy" or a "game", and prior art for that would be less common.
I remember seeing tilting games using two-axis accelerometers for fun back in the '90s, and if one of them was published before Hyperdyne's filing date and had sound ... well, then Hyperdyne's patent can be rendered worthless, ... but lawyers are not free.
In any case, the patent will expire in ten and a half years from now and there is no way to extend its life time.

Back on topic: Presently, I can only find Ultra Saber's sound module for sale on The Custom Saber Shop's web site.
I have no idea how Ultra Saber's module works.

Any action that I am talking about myself doing is hypothetical, AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN. What I write here is intended for discussion about patents, not a declaration of intent to infringe on one or on any other intellectual property.

Any abusive reply to this post will be answered with an ICBM sent to the flamer's house.
(The ICBM's guidance system using an accelerometer and running only Open Source software. I like to share my hobby with others)

I was around when this started on the CSS forum. I remember Erv respected Jim's patent and did not sell any of those boards here in the USA. I was one that wanted one and he said he would not sell it to me because of it. I don't think any of his new electronics contain anything that would violate his patent; but I am no patent lawyer.

I have bought from both and will again. I buy their wares for me and me only. I could care less why the make and sell what they do ( for $$ or fun) because I have my own personal agenda in mind (for fun or $$) as does everyone here. I love having fun and making a little money can be fun too!

Hey Lar's; very good post; I give you a ICBM shield +1:lol

I have bought from TCSS and never had a problem. Great stuff.

On a side note this is why I have stopped collecting toy sabers that light up and make sound. You can't go anywhere without this popping up. Regardless of who is right or wrong, it's no fun anymore. I'll stick to static sabers. None of these companies (Erv, Ultra, Hyper, the Big 3) are getting my money in the future because of it.:lol

It is truely sad that a simple question has turned into this mess but it seems to happen way too often. If you have personal issues againist a company or person then simply just say you would not recommend them and let it go.

Robiwon said:

I have bought from TCSS and never had a problem. Great stuff.

On a side note this is why I have stopped collecting toy sabers that light up and make sound. You can't go anywhere without this popping up. Regardless of who is right or wrong, it's no fun anymore. I'll stick to static sabers. None of these companies (Erv, Ultra, Hyper, the Big 3) are getting my money in the future because of it.:lol

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