Need advice on material for resistant,light cheap copies!

[Pannaus Props]

Guys, looks like I've received a commission! At least kind of!
Now, I need to make a detonator with the T-shaped handler (does not move) and a wire that starts from it and end inside a dynamite cilinder. All fake, nothing needs to blow up The detonator box mesaures 15/20 cm per side plus the T handler and the dynamite.

Now, the guys who are asking me this, want to make a lot of copies, but paying 4 Euros TOP for each copy. Industries and companies that produce in larger quantities asked them 15.000 euros to make a master mold and then something like 1 euro/copy (no material would cost THAT few...so I guess they get their money off the mold and not off each copy).

I've already thought about resins from smooth on, rubbers and stuff like that, but the cost is way too HIGH. I estimated that every piece would weigh AT LEAST 2.2 pounds (1 KG) and resin cost for a one KG is about 15 EUROS. at least here. The thing needs to be painted...it also needs to be resistant since the product will be use in a "party game".

Any suggestion?
They need copies to be done quickly. Let's say 100 a month (25 a week - 4 per day)

Is it just utopia or you guys think it can be solved in a decent way?

 

[Lichtbringer]

Even if the materials would be for free - 4 units for 4€ are 16€, a day. :confused

Do you really think about to work for 16€ per day? Or for next to nothing if you need to buy material?

Good luck. :love

 

[Pannaus Props]

I know, I told them...is like....100 a month is 400 Euros a MONTH! WOW! That ROCKS! ahhahaha. But anyway, I need advice on the material

 

[Lichtbringer]

Vacuformed box + wooden broomhandle for dynamite and t-handle - or found items from a dollar-store.

Sorry, but after buying material and paint you will probably loose money on each unit.

 

[DaddyfromNaboo]

I know, I told them...is like....100 a month is 400 Euros a MONTH! WOW! That ROCKS! ahhahaha. But anyway, I need advice on the material

I´d say that you can do something that cheap only with vacforming. But if you can´t have such an item produced in an industrial fashion, the amount of 4 Euros per piece is illusory, totalling out at 400 Euros.

A master has to be made, and if you charge, say, 300-350 Euros per day just for making the master, and add an estimated two hours per finished piece (assembly, painting), then you´d have 20 working days , totalling out at say 6.000 to 7.000 Euros, not included the prototype and the amount of time it takes for meetings, getting materials, delivery etc.

Come to think of it, selfexpanding foam might be an alternative, too ,but the foam alone will cost more than 4 Euros per Piece, I´d say.

My suggestion is, make them an offer between 5000 to 7000 Euros, or pass on the job.

 

[defstartrooper]

My suggestion is to tell them to get real about costs.

 

[Pannaus Props]

AHAHHAH, I know guys I know.

Ok, let's try another way.
What would be the cheapest material to use? Cheap but durable and impact resistant.
Fiber glass takes too much time to cure I think. Unless you don't make 4 or 5 molds (spending hundreds of euros for the rubber) I don't think fiber glass would be the answer.

How about the D65 ROTO casting resin from smooth on? Not considering cost, just considering the best option.
Urethane rubber? Guess it's too difficult to get a decent paint job on...

 

[DaddyfromNaboo]

AHAHHAH, I know guys I know.

Ok, let's try another way.
What would be the cheapest material to use? Cheap but durable and impact resistant.

Vacformed plastics?

Fiber glass takes too much time to cure I think. Unless you don't make 4 or 5 molds (spending hundreds of euros for the rubber) I don't think fiber glass would be the answer.

Correct.

How about the D65 ROTO casting resin from smooth on? Not considering cost, just considering the best option.

See your own observations about cure times Same goes for painting them, btw.

Urethane rubber? Guess it's too difficult to get a decent paint job on...

Again, see above.

Injection molding would of course be the fastest possible way of doing this, but that´s cost prohibitive again. That´s most certainly what the 15k in the first quote they got were about.

Michael

 

[tmfpratt]

plaster of paris is fairly cheap..and pretty durable..not sure if it would work tho

as long as the stick arent being thrown and could hit someone...

 

[Pannaus Props]

MfN, thanks!
Vacformed are not that resistant thogh. Imagine people playing with this thing, kinda like the game TWISTER. If someone falls on it or steps on it, it will get completely destroyed.

I thikn the best thing would be casting with the 65D resin I was talking about. But even if I get a MONSTROUS amount of resin, i think it would still cost about 10 euros per Kg.

Either they make it smaller, or they will end up paying some big industrial company and end up paying those 15/25 K.

 

[blue2k]

What about using a 2 part expanding foam? I've heard a little goes a long way. Coating it to preserve resilience would help, and I cannot think of any product except plastidip for that purpose and that might be very expensive. Any ideas?

 

[Finhead]

The 65D is not stronger than vac formed abs not even close. You can set your fiberglass very quickly, it would be easy to get 4 or more of those pulled a day out of glass. Still way too cheap your going to loose $$ regardless of how you do this unless they up the budget.

 

[Rocker]

It's totaly possible for that price but you will have to move to China and accept a new standard of living for yourself. Or farm it out to someone that already lives there. That's how most things we use get made for so little money.

 

[Sidewinder]

It's the old quick, quality & cheap options - pick two.

SAS

 

[Pannaus Props]

The 65D is not stronger than vac formed abs not even close. You can set your fiberglass very quickly, it would be easy to get 4 or more of those pulled a day out of glass. Still way too cheap your going to loose $$ regardless of how you do this unless they up the budget.

Well, I was thinking about making the walls of the detonator box at least 3/8'' thick That's why I thought about 65D

Nothing is stronger than styrene for that thickness.

 

[Finhead]

At that thickness fiberglass would be far far stronger. But to get the same strength from glass you would only need maybe a 1/4" thickness. It would also be 1/4 the price, which would still be above what your getting paid so neither is an option as far as I can see.

 

[Pannaus Props]

I know, right now I'm just exploring for the future

 

[Vaderman]

I can't think of anything that will make this cheap enough.

I had written up some ideas, but Ijust saw that this is for a party game? I was thinking filming and they didn't have to be robust.

I'm very curious, why would you take on a job like this? Are you hoping they will be grateful and give you future work out of goodwill you are building up?
It seems like they would respect you more as a craftsman if you told them some realistic prices, instead of scrambling to be their "super cheap" option, which you would likely be if they ever called on you again.

It's fun to try to cobble something together from scrap parts and make it look believable, but this sounds as though it is just taking advantage of your desire for a job or to work for these people.
I would also agree with what has been said above. Vac forming might be the cheapest way to go on this or injection molding pices in color, though I don't know if the 15k would cover all the mold costs for that. Also, you don;t mention if you are able to get that price for an up front cost, only that it's what the "industries and companies" have asked for.

Even if you vac formed them, in a proper color, you'd need to either glue to halves together (if you did it on it's side with the handle and box in ha;f.) Or, you'd have to do a box and a handle separately.
Either way, you will need to glue them together. Then add string or wire and the dynamite sticks (is it truly just one stick or the typical bundle of three?)
Maybe they would also be vac formed and just hollow and open at the bottom?

For fiberglass, there would be more finish work involved, of course and it's messy. You would waste a lot of product setting up and making four a day, I would think.

In all cases, I think the costs will be far too high. It needs to be done in a industrial fashion.

 

[Pannaus Props]

Well, they're "friends" of mine. And right now, I'm working on the prototype. If they like it, they might buy it. For me is just experience, so I'm good with that.

As for the copies, well, I told them already. I'll make them look at your replies guys and let them understand there's no other way