Should I break it to him?

yakcam · 01-20-2006, 02:46 AM

Well, I need a little advice.

I was about to purchase a Vader item on ebay and this guy sent me a mail saying that he has a helmet made by a guy who has moulds/molds made from the original Vader helmet and he's willing to do me a copy.

Well I thought I'd send a message to see what he had, hoping for something good, well here's his email.....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Kraig,

I'm sorry I couldn't send these pics sooner. I hope they are to your liking. My camera does not take the best pictures, but I think these show the helmet fairly well.

The lenses appear very red due to the direct sunlight and a white towel behind the lenses to protect the helmet from the stand. The helmet in the pics is the one I originally bought.

As described before, it comes from a mold that was taken directly from an original screen used helmet for the original Star Wars movie (E IV, ANH). I spent hundreds of dollars making very precise molds from my helmet, to ensure an exact copy.

I purchased the helmet on eBay for $985.00 plus $50.00 shipping, from a well known prop maker (in the secretive prop community) called Underlord, who used to be an ILM insider during the original trilogy days. I felt that the price was way too high, but I didn't want to miss the opportunity to own something so close to the original.

So my plan was, from the start, to buy the helmet, make molds and a copy for myself, then re-sell the original. I have since sold the original (for $795.00) and am preparing to ship it now. When I happened to come across the auction you were bidding on, I couldn't be silent and watch you pay too much.

I hadn't planned on making copies for other people, but I knew I could get you the exact same thing, possibly better quality, for much less. I wanted to help. I felt like I might be butting into business where I didn't belong. I'm glad you were receptive to my message. I'm not sure how you plan to get out of the current auction (if you decide you want my helmet, that is). I know you can retract a bid, but I don't know what kind of consequences follow. I wouldn't want your reputation to be damaged.

Let me know what you decide to do and I will help you out in any way that I can. Thanks for your interest and friendly communication. Take care, mate.

Kind regards,

xxxxxxxx

P.S. I'm over in Milwauke, Oregon (very close to Portland, Oregon) USA

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now I know what you're thinking, screw him he's a recaster. Well, I don't think he's a member of the RPF and I think he thinks he has a genuine item. I've had more than one email from this guy and he seems to be very nice.

Now my options are, say....

"No thanks, I already have one, which I do

(I got it before I even knew the RPF existed)."

"Well let me tell you a little I know about the origin of your helmet...."

...or just say "Thanks for your offer, but, no thanks"

I just don't want to burst this guys bubble, I know how I felt when mine was burst

:o

Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Kraig

kell · 01-20-2006, 03:59 AM

This is sad, and funny all in the same breath. Honesty is the best policy, just shoot him straight. I think what sells the spfx is the dome... The dome looks great. I know its been discussed a hundred times, and I am not trying to start a war, but who originally made the dome ? , and is it possible to buy just that dome ?

Kell

Fatherless One · 01-20-2006, 04:16 AM

PM sent.

Star Wars Helmets · 01-20-2006, 04:37 AM

Kraig,

It sounds like a lot of BS to me, especially the line

it comes from a mold that was taken directly from an original screen used helmet for the original Star Wars movie (E IV, ANH).

Has he sent you any pics so you know which helmet it is?

Its hard to know if he's unaware or trying it on so imo you should tell him

Cheers

jez

Stormtrooper · 01-20-2006, 04:50 AM

Quote:

So my plan was, from the start, to buy the helmet, make molds and a copy for myself, then re-sell the original. I have since sold the original (for $795.00) and am preparing to ship it now. When I happened to come across the auction you were bidding on, I couldn't be silent and watch you pay too much.

I hadn't planned on making copies for other people, but I knew I could get you the exact same thing, possibly better quality, for much less.

So isn't this bloke a recaster anyways?!

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but from what he said in the email to you (see above) he has bought an ANH Vader helmet from spfx, made moulds from it, re-sold the original spfx helmet and is now planning on selling you a helmet which he's made himself from the moulds??!!??!!

I know there has been some debate over where the spfx helmet came from, but "2 wrongs don't make a right".
In my book this guy is a recaster and should be avoided like the plague.

Might also be an idea to let eBay know that he's trying to sell you something *outside* of eBay and get his membership cancelled?

Just my 2 cents, of course...

Cheers,
John

apollo · 01-20-2006, 06:48 AM

Sounds to me like he knows what hes doing.

I would politely clue him in!

KevVader · 01-20-2006, 08:01 AM

...sounds like he was fed a line himself......I'd clue him in....

Darth Kahnt · 01-20-2006, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KevVader@Jan 20 2006, 10:01 AM
...sounds like he was fed a line himself......I'd clue him in....

[snapback]1163636[/snapback]

I'm with you on that Kev.

jeezycreezy · 01-20-2006, 08:42 AM

Sounds like he's trawling eBay for buyers. Did he contact you through eBay...or how did that happen?

While he does come across as amiable in his email, well, nice people aren't automatically honest people.

Cheers!
TJ

Clutch · 01-20-2006, 08:55 AM

Yes, he's a recaster.

"I hadn't planned on making copies for other people" I call bullsh#t.

Yes, you might say it's ok because he's recasting SPFX's helmet, but that means that that many more people are gonna get burnt.

And to be quite honest, I haven't seen any evidence that proves SPFX is a recaster. So I can't say anything for or against SPFX.

KevVader · 01-20-2006, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jeezycreezy@Jan 20 2006, 09:42 AM
Sounds like he's trawling eBay for buyers.Â* Did he contact you through eBay...or how did that happen?

While he does come across as amiable in his email, well, nice people aren't automatically honest people.Â*

Cheers!
TJ

[snapback]1163653[/snapback]

....agreed...after rereading his reply to you a couple of times....several warning bells are going off:

1) recaster - by his own admission, he bought the helmet just to recast it

2) trawling - good call TJ...that's exactly what he's doing....against ebay policy

3) something about his style of writing/syntax suggests that he's not from Oregon.

...as stated, I'd educate him as to what he seems to be doing and then shoot ebay an FYI....then I'd ask the Mods if posting his ebay handle here is acceptable so others don't fall for this....

Treadwell · 01-20-2006, 09:32 AM

If he thought the helmet was screenused as he claims, then he wouldn't be a recaster, at least not intentionally, as this community has been defining it (screenused being fair game).

Of course, if he's dishonest then he could be feigning that misconception to get around that.

Clutch · 01-20-2006, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Treadwell@Jan 20 2006, 09:32 AM
If he thought the helmet was screenused as he claims, then he wouldn't be a recaster, at least not intentionally, as this community has been defining it (screenused being fair game).

Of course, if he's dishonest then he could be feigning that misconception to get around that.

[snapback]1163701[/snapback]

he says:
"it comes from a mold that was taken directly from an original screen used helmet "

he doesn't say:
"I have a screenused helmet."

jeezycreezy · 01-20-2006, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Treadwell@Jan 20 2006, 03:32 PM
If he thought the helmet was screenused as he claims, then he wouldn't be a recaster, at least not intentionally, as this community has been defining it (screenused being fair game).

I disagree.

The way I read it he says he bought a replica. The replica was supposedly second gen. from a screen used helmet.

He made a copy of the replica for himself and sold the original.

He is now making replicas of his replica of a replica, ergo recasting

No way did he buy a screen used Vader helmet for $985 off eBay.

Cheers!
TJ

Clutch · 01-20-2006, 09:42 AM

Also, why would he plunk down 1035 total for it, then spend a few hundred more for molds and THEN sell it for 795 if he had only intended on making a copy for himself?

jeezycreezy · 01-20-2006, 09:45 AM

Furthermore, how much sense does it make for someone to buy a replica helmet and recreate a single copy only to sell it at a slight loss? That's just stupid.

The amount of time and material that would go into recasting a single helmet would negate any financial savings; a sane person would have just kept the original.

The only person who would do this is someone who wanted to make multiple copies. I think you would have to be more than a little naive to buy his cock and bull story.

It smacks of the sort of spiel I got from JB once upon a time.

Cheers!
TJ

JRX · 01-20-2006, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by clutch@Jan 20 2006, 04:42 PM
Also, why would he plunk down 1035 total for it, then spend a few hundred more for molds and THEN sell it for 795 if he had only intended on making a copy for himself?

[snapback]1163711[/snapback]

... exactly what I thought and wanted to say -

jeezycreezy · 01-20-2006, 09:46 AM

Stop beating me to the punch clutch!

franz bolo · 01-20-2006, 09:46 AM

It sounds like a scam to me. Why would he care about anyone paying to much other than to line his own pockets?

He seems to be playing the nice guy who wants to help bit, but is hiding his own agenda.

I might be wrong, but I don't trust him.

FB

Tyler Durden · 01-20-2006, 09:57 AM

""it comes from a mold that was taken directly from an original screen used helmet ""

Sounds like whoever told him that information "borrowed" the origin story of Darth Jones' helmet.

SethB6025 · 01-20-2006, 09:58 AM

Honesty is the best policy. I'd break the bad news to him, although he may already know. If he's honest, he'll know the real score. If he's a crook, then he'll know the jig is up. Either way, he is openly comping to recasting a helmet. At least you could let him know that that is bad form.

SithLord · 01-20-2006, 10:52 AM

I would stay away from him, sounds like recasting a recaster's work

. He's just echoing what SPFX/Underlord/Phil has claimed about his helmet in regard to it coming from the original molds which is patently false. The faceplate is a 20th C recast and the dome is a GH dome recast. I have compared a GH dome and SPFX dome in person, side-by-side, and there's no question the SPFX dome originated from a GH dome. In fact, although otherwise identical, the SPFX dome was a bit smaller than a GH dome. The faceplate matches the dimensions of a 20th C faceplate. The SPFX helmet in question was his first ANH-ESB conversion long before he ever posted for sale ads on Ebay...

,

Thomas

Treadwell · 01-20-2006, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jeezycreezy+Jan 20 2006, 10:38 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jeezycreezy @ Jan 20 2006, 10:38 AM)</div>

Quote:

<!--QuoteBegin-Treadwell

Quote:

@Jan 20 2006, 03:32 PM
If he thought the helmet was screenused as he claims, then he wouldn't be a recaster, at least not intentionally, as this community has been defining it (screenused being fair game).

I disagree.

The way I read it he says he bought a replica. The replica was supposedly second gen. from a screen used helmet.[/b]

Ah, I see your point.

Trallis · 01-20-2006, 01:43 PM

Quote:

When I happened to come across the auction you were bidding on, I couldn't be silent and watch you pay too much.

sounds like a salesman alright.
Unless there is truly something special about you and this guy just wants to save just you some money, he is sending these out to everyone else who bids on vader helmets.
I want to see if anyone else will get any e-mails from him in the future

kell · 01-20-2006, 01:58 PM

After I posted my original post and slept on it.... just a crazy though, and once again no war starting here.. what if this guy is another Phil sock puppet ?

Also just thinking about it , whenever a deal is too good to be true it usually is, it reminds me of the guys that drive around in vans and pull up to you in the grocery store parking lot, and try to pitch you on some leftover stereo speakers, or other consumer electronics at really super sweet discount price... The reason that their "product" is so cheap is because of something like "we had too many, these are the extra that wont be missed"... you get home and found you bought a "box" of rocks.....

Kell

		Replica Props	Screen Used Props	Replica Costumes	Sculpture and Makeup	General Modeling	Studio Scale Models	Movie Discussion
	Collaborate, create, and collect at the internet's largest community dedicated to props, costumes and models.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Prison break tattoo	TFrosst	Replica Movie Props	5	05-01-2012 06:14 PM
Looking for something to break down an image	Ramsey	Replica Movie Props	2	12-21-2007 12:52 PM
Prision Break Mugshots	gusw666	Replica Movie Props	1	11-01-2006 06:51 PM

01-20-2006, 02:46 AM	#1
yakcam Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,742	Well, I need a little advice. I was about to purchase a Vader item on ebay and this guy sent me a mail saying that he has a helmet made by a guy who has moulds/molds made from the original Vader helmet and he's willing to do me a copy. Well I thought I'd send a message to see what he had, hoping for something good, well here's his email..... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Kraig, I'm sorry I couldn't send these pics sooner. I hope they are to your liking. My camera does not take the best pictures, but I think these show the helmet fairly well. The lenses appear very red due to the direct sunlight and a white towel behind the lenses to protect the helmet from the stand. The helmet in the pics is the one I originally bought. As described before, it comes from a mold that was taken directly from an original screen used helmet for the original Star Wars movie (E IV, ANH). I spent hundreds of dollars making very precise molds from my helmet, to ensure an exact copy. I purchased the helmet on eBay for $985.00 plus $50.00 shipping, from a well known prop maker (in the secretive prop community) called Underlord, who used to be an ILM insider during the original trilogy days. I felt that the price was way too high, but I didn't want to miss the opportunity to own something so close to the original. So my plan was, from the start, to buy the helmet, make molds and a copy for myself, then re-sell the original. I have since sold the original (for $795.00) and am preparing to ship it now. When I happened to come across the auction you were bidding on, I couldn't be silent and watch you pay too much. I hadn't planned on making copies for other people, but I knew I could get you the exact same thing, possibly better quality, for much less. I wanted to help. I felt like I might be butting into business where I didn't belong. I'm glad you were receptive to my message. I'm not sure how you plan to get out of the current auction (if you decide you want my helmet, that is). I know you can retract a bid, but I don't know what kind of consequences follow. I wouldn't want your reputation to be damaged. Let me know what you decide to do and I will help you out in any way that I can. Thanks for your interest and friendly communication. Take care, mate. Kind regards, xxxxxxxx P.S. I'm over in Milwauke, Oregon (very close to Portland, Oregon) USA ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now I know what you're thinking, screw him he's a recaster. Well, I don't think he's a member of the RPF and I think he thinks he has a genuine item. I've had more than one email from this guy and he seems to be very nice. Now my options are, say.... "No thanks, I already have one, which I do (I got it before I even knew the RPF existed)." "Well let me tell you a little I know about the origin of your helmet...." ...or just say "Thanks for your offer, but, no thanks" I just don't want to burst this guys bubble, I know how I felt when mine was burst :o Any advice would be appreciated. Cheers, Kraig

( Don't want to see advertising between posts? Register for free and become a member of our community! )
RPF Sponsors

01-20-2006, 03:59 AM	#2
kell Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Dallas Texas Posts: 755	This is sad, and funny all in the same breath. Honesty is the best policy, just shoot him straight. I think what sells the spfx is the dome... The dome looks great. I know its been discussed a hundred times, and I am not trying to start a war, but who originally made the dome ? , and is it possible to buy just that dome ? Kell

01-20-2006, 04:16 AM	#3
Fatherless One Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,422	PM sent.

01-20-2006, 04:37 AM	#4
Star Wars Helmets Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: UK Posts: 2,821	Kraig, It sounds like a lot of BS to me, especially the line it comes from a mold that was taken directly from an original screen used helmet for the original Star Wars movie (E IV, ANH). Has he sent you any pics so you know which helmet it is? Its hard to know if he's unaware or trying it on so imo you should tell him Cheers jez

01-20-2006, 06:48 AM	#6
apollo Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 14,750	Sounds to me like he knows what hes doing. I would politely clue him in!

01-20-2006, 08:01 AM	#7
KevVader Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Ottawuh, Canaduh! Posts: 3,669	...sounds like he was fed a line himself......I'd clue him in....

01-20-2006, 08:42 AM	#9
jeezycreezy Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 807	Sounds like he's trawling eBay for buyers. Did he contact you through eBay...or how did that happen? While he does come across as amiable in his email, well, nice people aren't automatically honest people. Cheers! TJ

01-20-2006, 08:55 AM	#10
Clutch I be got no weapon! Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: The Basement Posts: 6,302	Yes, he's a recaster. "I hadn't planned on making copies for other people" I call bullsh#t. Yes, you might say it's ok because he's recasting SPFX's helmet, but that means that that many more people are gonna get burnt. And to be quite honest, I haven't seen any evidence that proves SPFX is a recaster. So I can't say anything for or against SPFX.

01-20-2006, 09:32 AM	#12
Treadwell Join Date: Aug 1999 Posts: 15,366	If he thought the helmet was screenused as he claims, then he wouldn't be a recaster, at least not intentionally, as this community has been defining it (screenused being fair game). Of course, if he's dishonest then he could be feigning that misconception to get around that.

01-20-2006, 09:42 AM	#15
Clutch I be got no weapon! Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: The Basement Posts: 6,302	Also, why would he plunk down 1035 total for it, then spend a few hundred more for molds and THEN sell it for 795 if he had only intended on making a copy for himself?

01-20-2006, 09:45 AM	#16
jeezycreezy Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 807	Furthermore, how much sense does it make for someone to buy a replica helmet and recreate a single copy only to sell it at a slight loss? That's just stupid. The amount of time and material that would go into recasting a single helmet would negate any financial savings; a sane person would have just kept the original. The only person who would do this is someone who wanted to make multiple copies. I think you would have to be more than a little naive to buy his cock and bull story. It smacks of the sort of spiel I got from JB once upon a time. Cheers! TJ

01-20-2006, 09:46 AM	#18
jeezycreezy Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 807	Stop beating me to the punch clutch!

01-20-2006, 09:46 AM	#19
franz bolo Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,951	It sounds like a scam to me. Why would he care about anyone paying to much other than to line his own pockets? He seems to be playing the nice guy who wants to help bit, but is hiding his own agenda. I might be wrong, but I don't trust him. FB

01-20-2006, 09:57 AM	#20
Tyler Durden Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,412	""it comes from a mold that was taken directly from an original screen used helmet "" Sounds like whoever told him that information "borrowed" the origin story of Darth Jones' helmet.

01-20-2006, 09:58 AM	#21
SethB6025 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: York, PA U.S. Posts: 800	Honesty is the best policy. I'd break the bad news to him, although he may already know. If he's honest, he'll know the real score. If he's a crook, then he'll know the jig is up. Either way, he is openly comping to recasting a helmet. At least you could let him know that that is bad form.

01-20-2006, 10:52 AM	#22
SithLord Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Northeast USA Posts: 5,648	I would stay away from him, sounds like recasting a recaster's work . He's just echoing what SPFX/Underlord/Phil has claimed about his helmet in regard to it coming from the original molds which is patently false. The faceplate is a 20th C recast and the dome is a GH dome recast. I have compared a GH dome and SPFX dome in person, side-by-side, and there's no question the SPFX dome originated from a GH dome. In fact, although otherwise identical, the SPFX dome was a bit smaller than a GH dome. The faceplate matches the dimensions of a 20th C faceplate. The SPFX helmet in question was his first ANH-ESB conversion long before he ever posted for sale ads on Ebay... , Thomas

01-20-2006, 01:58 PM	#25
kell Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Dallas Texas Posts: 755	After I posted my original post and slept on it.... just a crazy though, and once again no war starting here.. what if this guy is another Phil sock puppet ? Also just thinking about it , whenever a deal is too good to be true it usually is, it reminds me of the guys that drive around in vans and pull up to you in the grocery store parking lot, and try to pitch you on some leftover stereo speakers, or other consumer electronics at really super sweet discount price... The reason that their "product" is so cheap is because of something like "we had too many, these are the extra that wont be missed"... you get home and found you bought a "box" of rocks..... Kell