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  1. Likes to destroy Go-Bots RPF Premium Member Megatron's Avatar
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    Jun 17, 2011, 8:07 PM - Shapeways and "recasting" #1

    Am seeing a lot of Shapeways made items on here now and they sure look like recast of items other members had made with there hands and hard work.

    I not knocking all the computer work that goes into drawing of the items but to imply you cast and made the item in the material is really starting to make me think others should be aware of these items.

    Shapeways has its place in parts and prototyping as its intend for.
  2. modeljag's Avatar
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    Jun 17, 2011, 8:12 PM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #2

    I think I know exactly the pieces you're talking about...
  3. PepMaster is offline PepMaster
    Jun 17, 2011, 8:20 PM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #3

    Well it would be simple enough I would think if the person laser scanned the RPF member item and modified it for Shapeways. But for curosity sake what are the items?
  4. micdavis is offline micdavis
    Jun 17, 2011, 8:39 PM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #4

    No way making final parts is cost effective with them.

    Heck 2"x3"x1/"4 Star Trek Data Card is $36.

    Good for masters and prototype, but no way can it be good for any "production".

    Let's see what you're talking about.
  5. tk1055's Avatar
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    Jun 17, 2011, 9:41 PM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #5

    I think he is referring to the current builders of GL rings. Now I know that Zenix and Bimmer all did their own work on their own models. If you line them up you see they are different in quite a lot of ways, and as for both doing the Sinestro ring, they are both working off the SAME three images from Constructing Green Lantern. Now before we hoist another member over the coals who also makes Movie GL rings, he and Bimmer have teamed up, and are sharing resources (Bimmer just hasn't been given alot of credit for his work with this individual.)
  6. Bimmer's Avatar
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    Jun 17, 2011, 9:50 PM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #6

    I think i'm a little confused. IF the GL rings is what the OP is talking about does that mean i discretely being accused of recasting zenix's movie GL ring?

    If so, zenix has never come forward or accused me of such and i have various stages saved of my 3d model to prove otherwise.

    If thats not what megatron was referring to, then my bad. Just a little confused. I don't think i've seen TOO many shapeways products that have been very popular on here but i could be missing something.
  7. tk1055's Avatar
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    Jun 17, 2011, 10:02 PM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #7

    It is either that or Megatron doesn't like the idea of someone else paying to have their digital creation made into real life. If that is the case is it any different than CNC? One still has to model it in a computer and have it routered out on a machine. The only thing is Shapeways is making their printers available to the public at large for a small price, heck I know guys here have asked others to make a mold of their original work and this is not considered recasting.
  8. Likes to destroy Go-Bots RPF Premium Member Megatron's Avatar
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    Jun 17, 2011, 11:23 PM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #8

    tk1055 said: View Post
    I think he is referring to the current builders of GL rings. Now I know that Zenix and Bimmer all did their own work on their own models. If you line them up you see they are different in quite a lot of ways, and as for both doing the Sinestro ring, they are both working off the SAME three images from Constructing Green Lantern. Now before we hoist another member over the coals who also makes Movie GL rings, he and Bimmer have teamed up, and are sharing resources (Bimmer just hasn't been given alot of credit for his work with this individual.)
    nope not the GL stuff
  9. Formerly cobalt crimson Wes R's Avatar
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    Jun 17, 2011, 11:28 PM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #9

    I'm curious to find out what this stuff is.
  10. Bimmer's Avatar
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    Jun 17, 2011, 11:51 PM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #10

    Wes R said: View Post
    I'm curious to find out what this stuff is.
    As am i!
  11. Likes to destroy Go-Bots RPF Premium Member Megatron's Avatar
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    Jun 17, 2011, 11:58 PM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #11

    tk1055 said: View Post
    It is either that or Megatron doesn't like the idea of someone else paying to have their digital creation made into real life. If that is the case is it any different than CNC? One still has to model it in a computer and have it routered out on a machine. The only thing is Shapeways is making their printers available to the public at large for a small price, heck I know guys here have asked others to make a mold of their original work and this is not considered recasting.
    I design my stuff in software also, but I also make them myself. I Have made molds for others but at there request and for them of something they sent me. That's not a recast cause the owner asked for the mold. CNC something takes lots of skill its not that easy. Ordering off a website pfft and having some company make it..

    When I do things for the forum I make tales in the items just for this forum and now I see them being copied into Shapeways copies.

    Another concern is that now members are "fishing" sales via pm for items that are not available but are in the development stage or fine tuning. What they are offering are Shapeways "copies" and I mean inferior detailed copies of the other prop with a sales tactic of why wait.


    Am not here for profit..am here for the reason we make props and prop replicas, the creation and discovery, the physical connection that the prop gives us to the movie or show.

    Shapeways has an interesting feature where you can sell a digital copy of the model or make the digital copy free for others to download

    So do you think items sold via Shapeways should be tag that they are made by Shapeways? I can spot a printed item but some don't know the difference-I don't know it just disconcerting to me that the members getting the items our being mislead of the origin of the prop.
    Last edited by Megatron; Jun 18, 2011 at 5:02 AM. Reason: Micheal Bays sucks
  12. RPF Premium Member Risu's Avatar
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    Jun 18, 2011, 1:16 AM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #12

    If you have a specific example of when one of your tells showed up in somebody's print you should say exactly what it is here so the mods can have a look. Otherwise it just seems like whining without a goal.
  13. NakedMoleRat's Avatar
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    Jun 18, 2011, 2:23 AM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #13

    It's got to be the TARDIS key, but I'm not sure if I could spot a tell or not. In fact, the shapeways key is missing elemnts of the Megatron prototype.
  14. Likes to destroy Go-Bots RPF Premium Member Megatron's Avatar
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    Jun 18, 2011, 2:53 AM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #14

    the back of my key (the RPF version) has the constellation on it as was agreed upon by fellow RPFs long ago on the first run. No one has come out with any ideal of what is on the back of the real prop key yet. So when we did the run people said put the constellation on the back.

    Even a real DR. Who has used one of the members key I made and could not recall what was on the back of the real prop.

    I have seen the RPF version recast many times selling on ebay but of course in true recaster fashion with crappy detail degradation.
    Last edited by Megatron; Jun 18, 2011 at 5:01 AM. Reason: Micheal Bays sucks
  15. Megamicrofish's Avatar
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    Jun 18, 2011, 2:54 AM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #15

    Bimmer said: View Post
    As am i!
    Can we see some evidence of the items you say are re-cast and selling on the RPF , or this thread is going nowhere ?
  16. Likes to destroy Go-Bots RPF Premium Member Megatron's Avatar
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    Jun 18, 2011, 3:34 AM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #16

    Megamicrofish said: View Post
    Can we see some evidence of the items you say are re-cast and selling on the RPF , or this thread is going nowhere ?
    and your helping how with your post?
  17. your friendly rodent RPF Premium Member epilepticsquirl's Avatar
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    Jun 18, 2011, 4:25 AM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #17

    Megatron said: View Post
    the back of my key (the RPF version) has the constellation on it as was agreed upon by fellow RPFs long ago on the first run. No one has come out with any ideal of what is on the back of the real prop key yet. So when we did the run people said put the constellation on the back.

    Even a real DR. Who has used one of the members key I made and could not recall what was on the back of the real prop.
    This certainly opens up a new chapter in the realm of recasting. I took a look at the key in question and the resemblances are nearly identical. Especially with your tell in place that you and only you put there that isn't on the actual prop. Your key was obviously of primary reference to the model.

    I'm certainly interested in how this unravels. 3D Modeling and printing is here to stay, so seeing how this precedence pans out will certainly be interesting!
  18. Likes to destroy Go-Bots RPF Premium Member Megatron's Avatar
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    Jun 18, 2011, 4:57 AM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #18

    "Ask not what your forum can do for you; but what can you do for your forum!"
    Nice signature


    This certainly opens up a new chapter in the realm of recasting. I took a look at the key in question and the resemblances are nearly identical. Especially with your tell in place that you and only you put there that isn't on the actual prop. Your key was obviously of primary reference to the model.
    some one sees why am bring this up finally..in a way it is like what happens to paper props.. but now its objects because of the 3d printer.
  19. RPF Premium Member Mockle's Avatar
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    Jun 18, 2011, 5:14 AM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #19

    Sorry, but if you are going to accuse then do it.. dont speak in riddles your stirring a bee hire. or at least bring the mod's in and have them work it out. Dont you think thats the proper way?
  20. tk1055's Avatar
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    Jun 18, 2011, 7:44 AM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #20

    I seem to recall this same type of topic showing up when Pepakura hit. To me using shapeways is legit because I have to actually make the model first, then they print it and thats it. No different from me sculpting something physical and paying someone to mold it.

    As for Shapeways offering to let you download 3d models that is no different from Google 3d Warehouse. Ask before use is what it comes down to.
  21. 8 perf's Avatar
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    Jun 18, 2011, 8:18 AM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #21

    tk1055 said: View Post
    I seem to recall this same type of topic showing up when Pepakura hit. To me using shapeways is legit because I have to actually make the model first, then they print it and thats it. No different from me sculpting something physical and paying someone to mold it.

    As for Shapeways offering to let you download 3d models that is no different from Google 3d Warehouse. Ask before use is what it comes down to.



    Gotta agree here. I can see absolutely no difference in "you" using blueprints or drawings or pics of something from screen caps as reference to build your prop replica as there is in someone else using your finished piece as reference to build their prop replicas via 3d printing.
    As for the Shapeways offer to download the 3d model, you as the owner of the model can turn that option off in the models profile so no one but you can use it.
  22. zookone's Avatar
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    Jun 18, 2011, 9:31 AM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #22

    Wow while not targeted at anyone in particular I find this thread offensive. The piece I had printed by shapeways took well over 100 hours of pouring over reference images and
    3D modeling over and over the same elements to get the piece right that I had printed by shapeways. I could have made faster by hand if i had wood shop available but I don't. It takes years to become savvy with a particular software package and to think it is cheating or a short cut is short sighted. I compare it to the film academy thinking it was cheating to use computers for special effects. Lasty most prints you get back from 3D printing are pretty rough and you better have a solid set of tradition skills to polish off the piece. Both skill sets deserve respect, the Cinefx on Tron legacy has great coverage on the married of both skill sets.
  23. Member Since
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    Jun 18, 2011, 10:01 AM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #23

    So it seems that the major complaint is replicas being used as reference in themselves. But unless the person in question has access to a 3D scanner (and I would wager that's pretty limited) then the person still has to create the model digitally.

    Maybe it's not a traditional skill, but it's still a skill nonetheless. It's not taking the item in question, dropping it in rubber, and making copies without laboring on the master.

    To me, using someone else's replica as a reference to make one's own master, that's not recasting. That's just being a lazy researcher.
  24. RPF Premium Member zenix's Avatar
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    Jun 18, 2011, 10:38 AM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #24

    Well, I'm certain Megatron is talking about the tardis key that I made. While i certainly do have access to awesome 3d scanners, I'm also a skilled 3d modeller.

    I know Megatron is bringing this up because of this particular item, this topic should be discussed in a general way, and I'm assuming that is what Megatron's intent is by creating this thread. I too have extremely high respect for those creating things physically by traditional sculpting. I can't draw a circle on a piece of paper.

    As a side note, I do need to point out that the cost of 3d printing is not extremely high for most items, and disspell any rumors that it can't be used effectively as finished products. For small items it is extremely efficient to use as a production technique.

    The detail I'm assuming that Megatron is referring to specifically in this case is the pattern on the back of the tardis key. While this is the item that sparked his initial post, the topic should be discussed in general. I think the fundamental issue is this question: Is it recasting to use another member's item as reference when creating your item from scratch? This would apply in both digital and analog creation. If it's true for regular sculpting, then it should also apply when 3d modeling on the computer. So i ask the community this: If Joey hand sculpts a ring with 7 details on it, and Tom looks at the for sale pictures that Joey posted, and says hey I can make that too, and uses the pictures as reference to sculpt those 7 details into his wax master, is that recasting?

    My understanding is that while it may be bad form and looked down upon, it's not against the rules. But I'll leave that up for debate.


    As far as fishing for sales, my intent of the two PMs I sent were to spark this discussion, not to get people to buy them. I was just curious why since I've had an item available since last summer and you've been developing it for over a year why only one person has bought it. It was explained to me that 1: perhaps people mistakenly thought the item im question was in fact a physical recast of one of your items, or 2: that people prefer hand cast items over machine created ones.

    As for the item in question, I'll change the details in the front and back areas since they're the two you're psuedo-claiming 'rights' to. In light of recent discoveries, they're inaccurate anyway.
  25. Likes to destroy Go-Bots RPF Premium Member Megatron's Avatar
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    Jun 18, 2011, 1:33 PM - Re: Shapeways and "recasting" #25

    not to get people to buy them? Really?
    So why do you link to your junkyard thread in the pm's?

    as for 100's of hours of research and working on the computer..um anyone that is going to make a replica does that.
    But then I also spend hours sculpting, casting and finishing the effort is seen in the final piece.

    The Pepakura making involves just that- making, building and more. not as easy as a mouse click to order a finished item.
    Last edited by Megatron; Jun 18, 2011 at 1:47 PM. Reason: Micheal Bays sucks

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