Recaster Alert: Thermal Detonators (Here we go again)

I also just got a message from a Spanish 501st officer over on Dented Helm. Looks like they really rooked him; they sent the wrong LEDs and attachment screws or connecting hardware. Looks like they were just making a fast buck there. here's what he writes:

I read you latest post about forge props, unfortunately I bought a detonator from forgeprops and all I got was a creepy recast from your work.
No mounting tutorial, No electronics instructions! Nothing!
Here are the images...

That sucks.
I hope someone goes after these guys, if possible.

Glad I saw this. I have been thinking about getting that from them.

BH

Sorry to see this, that really sucks!!! But thank you for posting. At least we can keep a look out.

I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of their merchandise was recasts. Sorry to hear about this.

Sorry to hear about this.

Seems they are forge by name forge by nature, kinda ironic. Seriously this sucks dude I hope something can be done.

Are they still active here? If so report to mods ASAP!!

They're selling Endor bunker buster grenades as well, and the only place I have ever seen those done is TK560.com: TK560.com Blog: Bunker Busters are almost ready for 'prime time'

Forge Props?

Then it's not just a clever name!

Moviefreak said:

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Are they still active here? If so report to mods ASAP!!

I'd warn Art anyhow since these clowns are over on the helmet too.

Wes R said:

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I'd warn Art anyhow since these clowns are over on the helmet too.

Oh It's being looked into.

Please don't take this as my condoning people recasting, my understanding of the rules regarding copying things are limited and while I am totally against anyone profiteering from copying the work of others and claiming it as their own, can I bring up a couple of things.....

First, we read about recasts but have to remember that ALL these items are copies or replicas of items from movies etc, so technically are all copies of someone else's work right from the start.

Secondly, as such, if you are making an accurate replica of an item, lets use the TD as an example, regardless of how you look at it, a TD made by MR, cast by the original poster or by anyone else selling these, made from scratch or whatever the circumstances, they are all going to be pretty close. After all if it varies too much it is no longer an accurate replica (you can't have a TD that has spikes all over it or is hexagonal instead of round - just an example but you get my point) a Starwars TD is just that and anyone making one is going to make it essentially the same. Obviously we can all see the difference in quality between a first generation pull of an item and a copy of a copy of a recast, but my point is in terms of design, they are going to be very similar, the logistics of switches etc are going to be pretty close.

It's different if something is a unique design and is your own, but once again unless it is patented or trademarked, apart from being shunned by the community here, there isn't much you can do about it. Of course it is also different if I actively misrepresent something as being the work of a particular person when it is a copy or recast, that is clearly wrong, but with a TD, lots of people make these and sell these - are any apart from companies like MR authourised to make and sell? How does this work?

Again, don't get me wrong, I want to make it known that I 100% do not agree with those profiting from others work, however in one form or another, whether it be gaining inspiration, recasting or making replicas that are 80, 90 or 100% accurate, we are all sort of doing the same thing aren't we? Up to a certain point?

Pfillery,

as a quite new member you should just take the time and read up on the issue that you are now trying to discuss. Just type in "recast" and you will find a load of discussions. We just recently had one, I think it´s been just two days or so ago, should be easy to find.

It of course is great that you share your thoughts on this tricky topic with the community, but do you really think that there is one single angle that has not been discussed or mentioned when it comes to recasting?

The topic of "recasting" and "honour among thieves" does not really need another discussions.

Sorry for derailing your thread, Oubliette, now back on topic. A shame that they recast your items, but I am sure that if they are a member here they will get the boot and since TDH is connected to the RPF they sure won´t be members over there much longer.

DaddyfromNaboo said:

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Pfillery,
Sorry for derailing your thread, Oubliette, now back on topic. A shame that they recast your items, but I am sure that if they are a member here they will get the boot and since TDH is connected to the RPF they sure won´t be members over there much longer.

Not at all, Daddy F N.

The meat of the issue is that ANYONE can make their own Thermal Detonator design master, make molds, and sell them.

But they can't just take a cast I made, put some extra score-marks in it and then recast it for sale.

I hope that helps clarify for Pilfery.

Point 1) I've seen the pictures you posted over at the TDH, Oubliette, and from those pictures alone, there are enough differences which show this not to be a recast.

Point 2) The bunker busters from TK560 are completely different from the Forge ones. Surprise! Someone else sells a better variation!

Point 3) It really is sad to see everyone in this thread jump on the "BAN HIM" bandwagon without any proof whatsoever. Just on the word alone of Oubliette, suddenly the Forge is instantly shunned without any evidence, or without those who have access to TDH taking the time to inspect the "evidence" presented, which is pretty sad, I must say. Even my 10 year old son could see the differences without me saying one word.

Point 4) I could care less about how many times recasting is discussed, I agree with pfillery. If it's your specific original creation, then you have room to gripe and make a claim. But when how-to's, WIPs, and a plethora of reference pictures are posted for the world to see, it's very hard to find sympathy for someone getting upset that someone else is making the same thing they are.

And as I said on TDH, Oubliette, yes, Jaycen is my friend. But before you go accusing me here of the same thing you did on TDH; no there is nothing in this for me. It simply angers me to see a friend, or anyone for that matter, put time and hard work into a hobby to make something someone wants to celebrate their love for Star Wars only to get trashed by baseless accusations.

That is all.

We sure are getting a lot of newer guys on here supporting potential recasting. Hopefully they ban the recaster if he is a member before he goes after more stuff.

Okay...did you not read what I said? Or are you just ignoring it? I'm not sure.

Jaycen from the Forge has witnesses of him creating his detonator original piece, molding it, and casting it to sell. He is not, I repeat, IS NOT a recaster.

So, would everyone please refrain from acting like children who think that just because someone else has an R2D2 action figure that it was stolen from their collection? My God...I'm back in grade school!

And don't harsh on the "new guys." Just because we don't have a thousand posts does not mean we don't have something worthwhile to contribute to the community.

Thank you.

Did I miss something here?

Someone accused someone else of recasting. They posted photos of the alleged recaster's item, claiming that there were minor differences between their item and the alleged recaster's item.

Where are the comparison pictures?

The comparison pictures ore over on TDH. But it is clearly two different products.

I personally have spotted at least 6 distinct differences between the two dets.

What makes me sad here is what if I decide to make something like this? What would happen should I decide to make my own thermal detonator? Would Oubliette dare to accuse me of recasting her simply because it looks like hers?

Challenge accepted. Let her try...

I really don't think this should turn into a personal vendetta just on a difference of opinion.

Jaiden Turr'n said:

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The comparison pictures ore over on TDH. But it is clearly two different products.

Not a member there. Link?

Hey all, I would like to take a moment to introduce myself so Im not given the newb label immediatly.

My name is PJ Reindel and I am the Personnel Officer over at Mercs (for the last 5 years), part of the Council that runs the club. I have been producing resin cast helmets of my own and canon designs as well as a couple of commsions for others for almost 2 years.

I am realitiely new to the RPF, I joined just before the site was hacked and I think Ive only been back once or twice since then. This may even be my first post. So yes, I am new to this forum but, not to costuming in general and prop making, while newer, I have some experience with.

As part of the Mercs Council, I would like to know that as soon as the first post was seen on our forums at Mercs we initiated an investigation immediatly. Once we are done, the results will likely be made public to anyone who would like to see them and willc ertainly be posted on our forums as well. i promise the investigation will be a thorough as we can make it considering everyone involved is spread around the country. We will weigh all statement from all involved parties and witnesses and we are in the process of acquiring samples from both parties to compare them, in hand, side by side.

I will say our process is quite detailed and many of those involved in conducting the investigation/reviewing the facts are currently or are retired fraud investigators, police investigators and prop makers.

As is customary with our investigations, we put a "gag order" on those directly involved. In this case Oubliette/Xeco and any member of Forge Props. We do this to minimize contamination and additional arguement between involved parties on other online forums which could influence the investigation or create new infractions.

So with that said, for any member of the Mercs family who are on this forum I would ask that you, whether directed under the gag order already or not, refrain from further negative discussion on this topic as it will not do anything to effect the facts of the matter and may only convulute the case, drags others in as potential witnesses and may negatively impact the reputations of all involved.

Thank you all,

PJ Reindel/Falin Skirata
Personnel Officer MMCC
www.mandalorianmercs.com

Wes R said:

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We sure are getting a lot of newer guys on here supporting potential recasting. Hopefully they ban the recaster if he is a member before he goes after more stuff.

Yup, we sure are, spiky bunch too! Guess were gettin' old

Lee