Need the Help of Old School RPF members

wasnt the VSF out ages before the meatsock appeared on the scene?, and the VSF is also a three peice helmet( plus ears) isnt it?

Hi Simon

I hope you are well. I'll tell you what I have learned on this...

In the past when I have asked various members of the UKG of the origins of the VSF, I have been told that they suspect the armour looks 'FX like' and the helmet looks like a 'weak TE/Meatsock derivative'.

Even though there is no love lost between TE and myself, I have to say that usually he is right, when it comes to ANH lids - all roads tend to lead back to TE, whether directly (a TE) or indirectly (a Meatsock).

Obviously now, no-one can say for sure, but the VSF does look like a weaker Meatsock. But that's just my opinion. No offence intended

Cheers,
Steve

Thanks Guys,

yep the VSF was indeed 3 peice with ears

As mentioned The VSF was out long before the Meatstock ever exsisted and im at aloss as to understand How the VSF molds could have come from anything Relating to Meatstock.

the problem here is only Graham knows where the helmet molds came from and only Mark knows where the Armour peices came and to be honest i think they are FX.

Then there is little ole me in the middle having to find the answers to Million dollar questions, my hope is someone will remember.

supa troop said:

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Thanks Guys,

and only Mark knows where the Armour peices came and to be honest i think they are FX.

.

So if the armor is possible recast FX, could the helmet possibly be of a suspicious origin?

Well...I don't know the specifics of the helmets in question...but I can say this...

He is not the ONLY person who owns a cast of an original trooper helmet...I do as well.
Mine was given to me by the guy who molded the original...which HE owned at the time.

And just for the record...it was ME that Graham got the helmet that he produced the VM1 from.

I'm not going to get into specifics, but I know for a fact that there are or were, multiple sources for these original helmets.

My dealing with Mark (Ojika) were very positive and I found him to be a very honorable guy.

Sporak said:

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Well...I don't know the specifics of the helmets in question...but I can say this...

He is not the ONLY person who owns a cast of an original trooper helmet...I do as well.
Mine was given to me by the guy who molded the original...which HE owned at the time.

And just for the record...it was ME that Graham got the helmet that he produced the VM1 from.

I'm not going to get into specifics, but I know for a fact that there are or were, multiple sources for these original helmets.

My dealing with Mark (Ojika) were very positive and I found him to be a very honorable guy.

I was so hoping you would chime in Sporak, you have always been very helpful to me via pm
and i thank you for your contribution to this thread

And just for the record...it was ME that Graham got the helmet that he produced the VM1 from.

This is a Darth Vader helmet yeah, so the relevance to the Stormtrooper is...?

wasnt the VSF out ages before the meatsock appeared on the scene?, and the VSF is also a three peice helmet( plus ears) isnt it?

The fact the VSF is a three piece means nothing, none of the original ROTJ helmets or any others as far as I know were in three pieces. It could easily have been cut for easy vac forming. With regards to time scales the Meatsock was around before the VSF according to the RPB.

My dealing with Mark (Ojika) were very positive and I found him to be a very honorable guy.

Bit if a joke really. I think you are in the minority here friend, have a look at the RPB, there are people who have been waiting 2 years for parts without any form of communication.

FYI I am not insinutaing that Graham had anything to do with casting a Meatsock, I think Simon and Mark were the culprits and used his name to cover their tracks, it all seems very mysterious to me....Simon acting as the middleman as usual.

He is not the ONLY person who owns a cast of an original trooper helmet...I do as well.
Mine was given to me by the guy who molded the original...which HE owned at the time.

I actually said in the UK Sporak, apart from Helmetman who claims he has but cannot provide any actual evidence, I am. No offence intended Steve at all mate.

The whole point of this was to find out the truth behind the VSF, I have asked many times before to no avail. The only way to do get some answers was to use Simon's aggressive nature to uncover some the truth.

Sporak if any castings came from you, they would have come from your brother's old ROTJ helmet right? The VSF shows no resemblance to that helmet IMO....




Joe

prophunter said:

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apart from Helmetman who claims he has but cannot provide any actual evidence, I am. No offence intended Steve at all mate.

None taken. It's not that I cannot, I have chosen not to.

My reasons for not providing additional information are not to be underhanded, it is to protect my source (and friend).

That will not change. End of story.

Anyway, I agree, VSF having a seperate cap and back is no evidence at all that it isn't a TE or Meatsock derivative. This is most likely a 'corner cut' during the vac forming process.

Cheers! Steve

I never said that due to it being three piece, it couldnt have been a modified two piece helmet, I was just stating that the VSF was a three peice design, therefore in the first place it wasnt that accurate,and a littel different from the meatsock, i also thought from the few pics ive seen of one that they look more rotj shaped than ANH. Also I believed that the VSF came first, but if Im wrong im wrong, no big deal.

Also Joe no offense but to say you are the only guy in the uk to cast an original ROTJ helmet is a bit ambigious to be fair, as a lot of people who have the biggest and best collections, dont even post on the RPF, so wouldnt give out the info on these, just like Steve has with his.

But gettting back on track, I thought this whole thread was about whether the VSF is recast or not

Also I believed that the VSF came first

me 2

Hey there my friend...

Funny, you chose my last comment to begin this with...This was relavent because it was my only "deal" that I made with Graham...and part of that deal was that he promised me a copy of the helmet once the run was finished.
He died before that part could be kept...or so I thought...but I was contacted by Mark and subsequently sent that helmet that Graham had mentioned to him that I should get.

I never asked for it...
And that helmet is very special to me because of the surrounding circumstances.

As for the Trooper...
I never made any claim to have supplied any stormtrooper to anyone, nor have I... I just said you weren't the only person to have one. I did not suggest any specific person that I got it from besides someone who owned a screen used helmet.
This is true...

I guess any screen used stormtrooper helmet would be old huh?

Anyway...I'm no helmet expert.
I leave that to you guys...I just had a few things to say is all.

prophunter said:

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This is a Darth Vader helmet yeah, so the relevance to the Stormtrooper is...?

Bit if a joke really. I think you are in the minority here friend, have a look at the RPB, there are people who have been waiting 2 years for parts without any form of communication.

I actually said in the UK Sporak, apart from Helmetman who claims he has but cannot provide any actual evidence, I am. No offence intended Steve at all mate.

Sporak if any castings came from you, they would have come from your brother's old ROTJ helmet right? The VSF shows no resemblance to that helmet IMO....

Joe

Well it would seem we have reached a stalemate here..

The Truth is there are only 2 People who know the origins of the VSF helmet and that is Graham and the person he aquired them off.

Graham is sadly gone so that pretty much rules that out and as yet the person he got them from has not come forward and doesnt look likely too.

So the only discussion really available left to discuss is which came first. and what i do know is Graham died in 2004 he and Ojika had been working on the VM02 since 2002 (i think)
so between 2002 and 2004 Graham would have given Ojika the VSF molds, and i know for sure Graham had the VSF molds long before the VM molds because he actually held off doing the helmet when he recieved the VM molds from Sporak, Vader was his first love and came before anything else Prop related

Now the first VSF helmet came out either late 2004 or early 2005 i cant actually remember.

Now Joe youve labeled me here as something i am not i would like an apology however i wont hold my breath.
As for my agressive nature ................. i have Aspergers dont you know its a trait

It's been mentioned the source might have been a Meatsock although you say the VSF is older than the Meatsock Simon nevertheless it would be interesting to discount or prove the Meatsock as a source for sure.
Do you have any other pictures of the VSF Simon or anyone else here have one that they can photograph ?
Then perhaps someone can post up comparison shots of a Meatsock to show similarities/differences.
I'm not certain it would prove 100% either way but visual reference would certainly be more aid than simply reading both sides personal memories surrounding it

there are plenty of pictures on my site of both helmets

Now Joe youve labeled me here as something i am not i would like an apology however i wont hold my breath.
As for my agressive nature ................. i have Aspergers dont you know its a trait

I don't think we have proved anything here, but I do apologise for calling you a recaster.

I couldn't care less about whether 1000 people have casted a ROTJ helmet, my point is don't claim something is copied from an original if it is not.

I don't think pictures are any use at all, whatever the VSF came from, it has been cleaned up and any tell-tale signs will have been removed. It seems the origins will never be discovered.....

Joe,

Many thanks for your apology i appreciate that.

Get to know the bull before you try to grab it by the horns mate

Now i have absolutely no doubt in my mind that the VSF was not a recast of meatstock the time scale just doesnt add up and i dont think Graham would have been involved in any Re-casting, but what i will endeavour to do is try to find out its origins.
But quite how i can do this i have no idea............... sorry.

supa troop said:

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Now i have absolutely no doubt in my mind that the VSF was not a recast of meatstock the time scale just doesnt add up and i dont think Graham would have been involved in any Re-casting, but what i will endeavour to do is try to find out its origins.
But quite how i can do this i have no idea............... sorry.

I agree Si,
Graham was a man that ***** his heart on his sleave and was a very proud man.
There is no way he would have ever considered recasting, graham would always try to fill a hole in terms of accuracy and not try to make money from something that already had the quality.

If the accuracy was out there he would buy it and praise it, if it wasn't he would try his damn hardest to make it happen...if he couldn't I'm sure he would have got a ball of clay out and made the bugger himself

Simon, why didn't you just ask Mark when you used to cut them out around his house?

it's necro day lol

Zombie thread run..............