If Rubies and Hasbro make costuming sabers, why can't MR? They're not re-issuing any more Limited Editions, just adding a single line of more affordable sabers for costumers and kids?
If Rubies and Hasbro make costuming sabers, why can't MR? They're not re-issuing any more Limited Editions, just adding a single line of more affordable sabers for costumers and kids?
Only one item got my attention
Star Trek
-Assault Phaser LE
Other than the assault phaser, there is nothing on that list that I would want
I stopped buying light sabers just because of the over use of chrome and the Bling Bling
gold. I would rather have a fan made light saber than MR one any day of the week.
Sorry.......Just me thinking out-loud again :P
TK648
Gabe - Hopefully Santa will think Ive been "nice" this year so will get lots of great toysOriginally posted by Prop Runner+Dec 24 2005, 12:20 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Prop Runner @ Dec 24 2005, 12:20 PM)</div>Originally posted by BingoBongo275@Dec 24 2005, 04:03 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-bothanspyIf aluminum, plastic, and stainless steel are indeed just "slightly different," then I'd agree with you. Fortunately they're not, so I don't. And neither apparently do the customers who happily sold out the stainless steel Luke ANH EE saber in record time...@Dec 23 2005, 10:07 PM
MR has sent out an update.
There has been a lot of concern regarding the new Limited Edition/Collectors Edition strategy. Here are some key things to know regarding why we have a new Limited Edition/Collectors Edition strategy: - When the Limited Edition version of an item sells out, then it will be gone for good.[snapback]1142559[/snapback]
They forgot to add
"However we retain the right to bring out another version of the same product in a slightly different material and call it the "EE", or an "XE" or a "30th Anniv" or whatever we may decide, now or in the future"
I'm sorry to go on about this. But if you bring out a Limited Edition of something of 500 units, then its ethically wrong IMO to re release what is effectively the same product a year later when those 500 have gone.
Cheers
Jez
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Jeez, Jez - did Santa leave you a lump of coal in your stocking this year?
- Gabe
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I do take your point that they are somewhat different but IMO the principal is still the same, theyre undermining the "limited" status by reissuing very similar props again and again. Seriously I dont think anyone would be shocked if in 2007 they did re-release all the big sellers in new "30th Anniversary Limited Editions", with brass knobs on!
...and I'm sure there are many ANH EE Luke buyers who are a little peeved that a Sig editions on the way
Merry ChRistmas
Cheers
Jez
Unfortunately it appears they are reissuing a raft of limited editions as non-limited editions. I know the demand has been high for those items, so there goes the value for folks that bought the limiteds.Originally posted by alienscollection.com@Dec 24 2005, 09:57 AM
If Rubies and Hasbro make costuming sabers, why can't MR?Â* They're not re-issuing any more Limited Editions, just adding a single line of more affordable sabers for costumers and kids?
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Sorry, but I overall agree with Jez on this and it was why I got out of collecting action figures, collectible cards, etc. because of the variants that were nothing more than cosmetic. Each store had this one, some stores had that one, this was exclusive, that one was special.Originally posted by Prop Runner+Dec 24 2005, 07:20 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Prop Runner @ Dec 24 2005, 07:20 AM)</div>Originally posted by BingoBongo275@Dec 24 2005, 04:03 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-bothanspyIf aluminum, plastic, and stainless steel are indeed just "slightly different," then I'd agree with you. Fortunately they're not, so I don't. And neither apparently do the customers who happily sold out the stainless steel Luke ANH EE saber in record time...@Dec 23 2005, 10:07 PM
MR has sent out an update.
There has been a lot of concern regarding the new Limited Edition/Collectors Edition strategy. Here are some key things to know regarding why we have a new Limited Edition/Collectors Edition strategy: - When the Limited Edition version of an item sells out, then it will be gone for good.[snapback]1142559[/snapback]
They forgot to add
"However we retain the right to bring out another version of the same product in a slightly different material and call it the "EE", or an "XE" or a "30th Anniv" or whatever we may decide, now or in the future"
I'm sorry to go on about this. But if you bring out a Limited Edition of something of 500 units, then its ethically wrong IMO to re release what is effectively the same product a year later when those 500 have gone.
Cheers
Jez
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Jeez, Jez - did Santa leave you a lump of coal in your stocking this year?
- Gabe
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Look at the Playmates Trek license. It was incredibly successful for years running...and then they made the great 1701 debacle. Trek then started to wane and for the first time a licensee couldn't sell anything. They reissued this and that and it still died.
And I have already seen it with MR. The 1st edition AT-AT has dropped and is still dropping in value. When the EEs hit the equivilent LEs dropped. Many people are looking at these as either investments or a truly rare collectible. But when you have thousands of an item out there, and even more so many variations, only the real die-hards are going to bother getting them all, and many are going to just plain give up.
I have yet to see this marketing strategy work with what are collectibles. The collectible plate market died with this, the aforementioned cards, comics, etc. I unfortunately see props, which are now the "big thing to own" going the same way, especially with Star Wars effectivley dead (sorry, I have little faith in the TV shows owing to the past live ones, and you can honestly sell only so many DVDs). Time will tell though.
And I don't mean to be a downer on MR at all. I *love* MR, have many pieces myself (which I bought because I like, not for investments nor for how rare it is) and feel that no other company has done such extensive and wonderful work on their items as they are. However...I do feel this constant re-re-releasing of items under different "skins" is a huge mistake when there are literally so many other props out there to make, even in limited numbers, like the council sabers, other blasters, tons of models, the Trek license (especially TOS) has clearly shown it isn't dead if done right, and of course the mini's are fantastic. It just seems to me, like with the figures, plates, etc. previously, it's a way to cut corners, use similar tooling and molds, and keep pumping out more and more of the same.
I've always been against this line of marketing. Even back in ECO101 we were taught that you either could have a steady supply to meet demand (in other words don't limit what you make, have lower prices and sell more to compensate as Kenner successfully did with the entire '77-'85 SW figure run) or you create demand/interest by having limiteds and sticking with those limiteds creating interest in the company and its products (such as how MR started out...and look at their ANH Han!. Trying to have limiteds AND meet demands falls in-between and just doesn't seem to work from what I understand and have seen.
sorry i dont see it.
its like selling a limited 500 pc run of a $200,000 4 karat pink dimond in a platinum setting...
then making a stainless steel cubic zirconia copy for $20 that is in unlimited supply.
the stainless steel version wouldnt ruin the value of the platinum one.
period.
you guys should see how that while yes there are MANY people out there that cant tell a screen used vader from a rubies... but does that make the stuff that is better quality and more accurate worth less???
NO.
as long as there are people who know the difference then the more valuable and collectable of the 2 will always hold more value to other collectors.
when people discovered that they could make the version 5 FXs blades detachable... did that ruin the value of the anakin or vader hilts??? NO.
and we dont know how shoddy these things are going to be either.
and with the luke EE, i garauntee that the new version while maybe not on a CE level, but will have noticeable differences.
its like having a d stamped buffulo nickel, then complaining that they still make nickels.
am i making any sense here?
im hungover... but im pretty sure there was some common sense in there somewhere.
I just hope that MR continues to pick items for their EE line that lend themselves well to that format.
For example:
I have no remorse about buying the EE ep1 Obi, even though I wasn't aware that there would probably be an LE version. The EE will be made from Stainless Steel rather than aluminum and that's a difference that isn't hard to see. No one is going to mistake the EE luke rotj or the EE luke anh for their LE versions either.
As for the CE line, I'm guessing that the same logic applies. The truth is, MR HAS to maintain interest with sellable product if they are to continue to stay in business and make more of the props we love. If it takes making a more affordable "CE line" available to a larger demographic in order for a Studio Scale starship line and securing new licenses to become a reality, so be it.
I agree with the the past sentiments about our being in a golden age of prop collecting and when this 34 year old picks up his anh obisaber, I'll be happy that there's a 12 year old out there with a CE version he loves rather than the broomstick I had when ESB came out.
Originally posted by Gytheran@Dec 24 2005, 11:16 AM
MR ate my baby.Â*
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The DINGO ate your babay(Sorry,I just had to)
Steve
Jez: I mostly took issue with your accusation of MR behaving "unethically." Just because you disagree with MR's aggressive marketing strategy doesn't make the practice unethical. Car manufacturers have been doing it for decades: Limited Editions, Special Editions, Super Limited Editions, Unlimited Editions, Eddie Bauer Editions... :P
It's never been a secret that the SE, for example, is just an LE with an autographed plaque. Everybody knows that they're paying $100 or more simply for the autograph, and that practice has been around since ICONS. The EE is a Rolce Royce edition because of the quality and expense of high-end materials and manufacturing methods used. How can ANYONE say with a straight face that stainless steel is not 10 times more superior than aluminum both in looks and durability? The CE is the entry-level replica for improvished teens and costumers who don't want to scratch up their LEs, SEs, and EEs. I honestly can't believe all the fuss about this issue...
Lord A: my guess is that most collectors aren't thinking that far ahead when purchasing an LE or EE MR replica. I never buy anything wondering how much its appreciation will be a few years down the line. Sure, I'd like to sell it for more than I originally paid or at least break even if circumstances ever force me to part with it, but even before the new editions, I've seen MANY replicas go for less than the original retail both in the Junkyard and on eBay. I honestly wonder about the motives of collectors if all they care about is the theoretical future value of their products. Case in point: I have an Icons ANH Luke - my first prop replica - #1092. Do you think it's appreciated or depreciated due to the MR license? I frankly couldn't care less - that's not why I purchased it. If you think of prop replicas only in terms of a financial investment, then buddy, I don't recommend you ever tell a financial advisor, because he'll smack you upside the head for your stupidity!
To Sergio and all other non-US collectors: if I were you guys I'd start a new thread aimed at getting MR's attention to your plight. If USPS EMT and other reliable & insurable air freight services can significantly reduce your costs, then badger the hell out of Amy: e-mail campaign, petitions, phone calls - wear them down! Or, if one of you wants to be an official MR distributor, write up a business and marketing plan and send it to MR's CFO for consideration. If they believe they can get more repeat customers by making prices more accessible to overseas markets, I'm sure they'll listen.
Happy Festivus, everybody!
- Gabe
STILL no sight of the most identifiable prop of the new Star Treks: The tricorder. Come on, MR, people will buy them for the blinkyness alone!
GabeOriginally posted by Prop Runner@Dec 24 2005, 07:59 PM
I never buy anything wondering how much its appreciation will be a few years down the line.Â* Sure, I'd like to sell it for more than I originally paid or at least break even if circumstances ever force me to part with it, but even before the new editions, I've seen MANY replicas go for less than the original retail both in the Junkyard and on eBay.Â* I honestly wonder about the motives of collectors if all they care about is the theoretical future value of their products.Â* Case in point: I have an Icons ANH Luke - my first prop replica - #1092.Â* Do you think it's appreciated or depreciated due to the MR license?Â* I frankly couldn't care less - that's not why I purchased it.Â* If you think of prop replicas only in terms of a financial investment, then buddy, I don't recommend you ever tell a financial advisor, because he'll smack you upside the head for your stupidity! :lo
- Gabe
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I totally agree, I've only ever bought props for their screen accuracy. That's why I have a Graflex, not an MR Luke ANH. When I say this, I mean I'd like the prop measurements etc to be the same as the real deal, not that I believe everything is exactly like the real Luke ANH. Close enough.
As for the investments, Gabe is right, none of this will be worth much more than what it means to you to have a prop replica. Maybe in 100 years, it will be worth what a mint Superman #1 comic book costs, but... who has 100 years?
I say buy to please yourself, not as an investment. Personally, I have a loose Mace and Luke ROTJ from MR, not caring that they are of less value. They are as accurate as I can get cause MR took the measurements. anyone agree?
From the way everyone is making it sound ....me too.Originally posted by Lynn TXP 0369+Dec 24 2005, 07:05 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lynn TXP 0369 @ Dec 24 2005, 07:05 AM)</div><!--QuoteBegin-SpideyFett@Dec 23 2005, 10:16 PM
Any "Sneak Peeks PICS" on the Fett Bucket Lynn??Â*
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I'll stick with my MSH and MSH2 helmets for now.
Lynn
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Gabe, right with you there. I never buy as investement (though I have bought/sold like everyone else when necessary), and only what I really like. But I'm not talking about our little eclectic group here but the masses. People have a "collectible think" that if it has a number, or it comes with a CoA, it is to be something of value in the future. These are the same people who bought that ICONS prop as it was Star Wars and it would be rare and it would go up later in value. Whether someone wants to sell or not, they would like to know they have that "rare" piece or that "went way up" in value prop. With mass marketing and all the variations out there, they won't notice how it looks (we've all commented tha the EEs are not accurate) and they won't care what materials are used (Joe Blow won't know the Luke saber was stainless, aluminum, or tin foil). They care about "They are making 100,000 sabers that look just like mine number 125/500????" I've seen it in all manner of collecting. I just worry that MR might be shooting themselves in the foot with some of their lines.Originally posted by Prop Runner@Dec 24 2005, 02:59 PM
Lord A: my guess is that most collectors aren't thinking that far ahead when purchasing an LE or EE MR replica.Â* I never buy anything wondering how much its appreciation will be a few years down the line.Â* Sure, I'd like to sell it for more than I originally paid or at least break even if circumstances ever force me to part with it, but even before the new editions, I've seen MANY replicas go for less than the original retail both in the Junkyard and on eBay.Â* I honestly wonder about the motives of collectors if all they care about is the theoretical future value of their products.Â* Case in point: I have an Icons ANH Luke - my first prop replica - #1092.Â* Do you think it's appreciated or depreciated due to the MR license?Â* I frankly couldn't care less - that's not why I purchased it.Â* If you think of prop replicas only in terms of a financial investment, then buddy, I don't recommend you ever tell a financial advisor, because he'll smack you upside the head for your stupidity![snapback]1143140[/snapback]
I think the CEs will be wildly popular, the LEs will get clobbered and drop drastically, the SEs will not hold as solid (maybe if they are combined with EEs...but the SEs are dropping like lead on most of them) and the EEs will only go as the true "collectible." The FXs are in a class all their own as well as the minis. That seems to be the trend with each re-issue/variation coming out.
And a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone!
Sounds to me like they are cutting out the possibility of any of us being able to get the LE's from our favorite dealers. If that's the case, they'll lose my business most likely. That's a vague round about method of price gouging (gotta buy from them at their retail prices). I have a good working relationship with my current dealer and if the only thing I can get from him is the CE "lower quality" stuff, that will pretty much put me out of the MR prop game. It's a shame too. I got most of the LE SW stuff and most of the Trek stuff as well. I guess I was lucky to have gotten all my stuff thru my dealer, or using discount coupons when buying direct from MR. I guess all good things eventually come to an end.
Having said that, any decision on my part to cut ties with MR would be a personal choice and not intended to persuade anyone else to do so. The bottom line is that MR is an honest business and they make their tough decisions based on one thing: company profits. This is how businesses survive. They owe their stockholders before they owe you or me.
Some people refuse to buy a new Corvette because it's the wrong color, it costs too much or the salesman rubs them the wrong way. Whether or not you choose to buy it, it's still a sweet car and a solid company. To each his own.
Dave
I agree with Lord A here on all points. The nickel analogy doesn't hold unless it's expanded to all currency in general. OK, you buy a limited edition of something, the "limited" part being a more than implied commitment. Prices go wild because of supply and demand. There's gold in them there hills. So lets get economies of scale profits vs high end profits on the now limitless version. Being reasonable, if there is a limited replica and an FX comes out, fine. There's enough differentiation that it is really a distinct product line. Back to the nickel analogy, it would be like saying we are only going to have 500 nickels (doesn't matter how many other currency denominations). That's it, limited to 500. Then a couple years later saying unlimited nickels but there will be less copper in the alloy. So much for limited.Originally posted by Lord Abaddon@Dec 24 2005, 07:17 PM
I think the CEs will be wildly popular, the LEs will get clobbered and drop drastically, the SEs will not hold as solid (maybe if they are combined with EEs...but the SEs are dropping like lead on most of them) and the EEs will only go as the true "collectible."Â* The FXs are in a class all their own as well as the minis.Â* That seems to be the trend with each re-issue/variation coming out.
And a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone!
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I think many will reserve judgement. As far as qual goes, after the Luke disappointment, maybe the CEs will be better quality :o
Like I said I agree on all points with Lord A's opinion, but mostly in the closing line to you & your families.
Tim
i just keep telling my dad that "this MR product" or "that MR product" will only increase in value when Christmas and Birthday time come around......nevermind the fact that i don't collect for the value or intend to sell the stuff......shameless?......heh heh heh...absolutely......
Sounds like a lot of people are buying MR products for the wrong reasons.
May I suggest you look at stocks, bonds, and CDs as a form of investment?
Agreed, If people here are complaning because of all these new releases are hurting their older MR's values are buying these products for any "potentional" future investments are NOT spending their money wisely.Originally posted by Kerr Avon@Dec 25 2005, 09:46 AM
Sounds like a lot of people are buying MR products for the wrong reasons.Â*
May I suggest you look at stocks, bonds, and CDs as a form of investment?Â*
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I'm glad they are actually making product that is affordable, $200- 400 is not exactly affordable when they come out with many products that are in the similar price range.
I only have two MR products an AT-AT and Snowdspeeder, the only way I was able to afford them was to sell my TE trooper armor for the AT-AT and I did an even trade of vintage SW toys to Brians toys for the Snowspeeder, so no money even exchanged hands for that purchase. Otherwise I never could have gotten these great pieces because they are tooooooo damn expensive.
I'm hoping that the signiture edition AT-AT drops down considerably in value as well so I can be able to afford that one.
Lynn
Another thing that others have not cosidered is that the CE line will open up new opertunities for replicas for MR. What I mean in they could never make a Ki-Adi Mundi LE or Adi Gallia LE or any of the variations. At 360$ a pop, certain props just wouldn't sell enough for the investment to pay off. With a lower cost version out there, they can diversify what they are offering.
I for one think that the CE's are a great idea, and that they will open up MR products to an entirely different market that isn't willing to drop $400.00 on a lightsaber replica.
Dan Stokes
DDStokes@aol.com
My main gripe is that is I knew that MR was going to make a Luke SE, then I would most definately would NOT have bought the EE version. For me I wanted to have all of the OT sabers, and the Luke episode IV and the Vader VI were the only two I was missing. As for the the Obi EE, I would get this saber over the LE or CE any day. Due to the complexity of this saber, I feel the EE treatment is most definately warrented. At least I'll get my ROTJ vader (as ugly as it is
Happy Holidays to All!!
And see that's part of it too. How many of us bought (as Diggler mentions) certain props from MR with the very expectation that there wouldn't be other mass releases, and hence paid some pretty hefty sums only to have those sums (like the 1st edition AT-AT) drop drastically with the follow up or announcments of further variations? If I had bought all the LEs at the MR prices and then found that the CEs would look just as good, just as close to what we see on screen, I'd be pretty honked to see that I could have bought a cheaper CE or, even more frustrating, see that I could have snagged an LE for $100 or less because the CEs knocked their value down.Originally posted by Lynn TXP 0369+Dec 25 2005, 12:27 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lynn TXP 0369 @ Dec 25 2005, 12:27 PM)</div><!--QuoteBegin-Kerr AvonAgreed, If people here are complaning because of all these new releases are hurting their older MR's values are buying these products for any "potentional" future investments are NOT spending their money wisely.@Dec 25 2005, 09:46 AM
Sounds like a lot of people are buying MR products for the wrong reasons.Â*
May I suggest you look at stocks, bonds, and CDs as a form of investment?Â*
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I'm glad they are actually making product that is affordable, $200- 400 is not exactly affordable when they come out with many products that are in the similar price range.
I only have two MR products an AT-AT and Snowdspeeder, the only way I was able to afford them was to sell my TE trooper armor for the AT-AT and I did an even trade of vintage SW toys to Brians toys for the Snowspeeder, so no money even exchanged hands for that purchase. Otherwise I never could have gotten these great pieces because they are tooooooo damn expensive.
I'm hoping that the signiture edition AT-AT drops down considerably in value as well so I can be able to afford that one.
Lynn
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We're not all talking investements. Anyone who invests in toys, props, etc. (as so many did with all the stupid Target, WalMart and other Kenner/Hasbro exclusives and were burned) are just being very, very foolish. Heck even stocks and bonds are barely trustworthy nowadays with our crazy economy, to even think a TOY will get what a MOC '77 Darth Vader will with all the new toys is plain ignorant.
What we are talking about is the damage to MR this potentially could have as well as the effects on people deciding what, if anything, to buy or just always "waiting for the next version"...again like the plates, cards, comics, figures, and all the other collectible areas that have drowned in their own variation insanity.
I'll be curious to see what the CE sabers look like, and how much they cost. I sold all of my MR stuff a while back, because as nice as it is, it just sat there in it's case, day after day. Now, if the CE stuff looks decent, and it's cheap enough to use for costuming, it might be very cool indeed. I know a lot of people are upset with this, but collectibles are NEVER a good investment, and never have been.
I really think everyone needs to hold off on getting their panties in a twist untill they actually see the CE line. For all we know, they could look like Hasbro sabers, and then everyone would have whined and bitched for no reason.
I am a little peeved over the SE coming out after the ANH Luke EE, I would much rather have a signature edition, but I have already got the EE and I can't do anything about how they decide their product releases. Other than that, the CE's don't bother me, as they will be a "you get what you pay for item" , lesser quality, lesser cost.
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