I smell class action lawsuit to get group refunds once these are in hand. They cannot refuse refund and most lawyers will agree this was a classic bait and switch.
I smell class action lawsuit to get group refunds once these are in hand. They cannot refuse refund and most lawyers will agree this was a classic bait and switch.
"Yeah, I know.....I was just being.....sarcastic....and pissy."
Maybe they can change their Cultural mission statement to:
Matty, A Mattel division where failure is the best option.
I think this is totally legit. You already have BBB claims against them for this item that accuse Matty of bait and switch, the hard part if trying to figure if there is any money here for a lawyer to glean off of this as a class action case. What are the damages? How many people know how bad this thing turned out versus what it should have been--screen accurate?Moviefreak said:
I still think it's hilarious that the BEST board was the first one. The 'looks like' model was the best of the three. Ironic, really.
Ok, so I've lurked since this thread was created because I had the same concerns as everyone here. Mattel has repeatedly done this in the past with other licenses including the Ghostbusters figures line, DC Universe Classics and Voltron. Their cost-cutting measures have negatively impacted their reputation among collectors, problems including digital river customer service, Matty customer service, materials etc - It has all been bad.JakeBluesZombie said:
This company sells items at prices similar to Hot Toys yet nowhere near their quality or craftsmanship. If they don't deliver on this item I hope that more people will speak up and pursue the legal avenue that will hold this company accountable for their bait-and-switch tactics.
I like many others love these licenses and chooses beyond common sense sometimes to purchase them, hoping that they will look like the real mccoy. It is not the fault of the consumer however that they are forced into a binding agreement to buy a collectible based on promises of "screen accuracy" and then once they have secured your order to simply dismiss their own promises on delivering the product. Like many have stated before it IS a bait-and-switch and there are laws that protect the consumer.
I'm still hoping for the best outcome here...
Does it come with that fantastic display stand? Seriously, it's a plus.
I put my pre-order in as soon as they were put on on the site. I figured it would be better than the foamcore one I got of eBay (or is it now ebay? I guess the big "B" is gone...) and would make a nice addition to my "ready room" of not meticulously screen accurate prop replicas. But when I saw the videos and read the posts on MattyCollector, I thought it could become something really special. And then reading about the generosity of time and effort put forth by the veterans of the RPF into trying to contribute to the effort and pointing Matty in the right direction (plus offering honest feedback), I have to say it is a shame that so many here feel like it was all for nothing.
That said, I feel that for the amount of money I'm paying for a specialty "toy", it will still do the trick for my "needs". I have no prop building skills (although I "boiled and popped" a few action figure heads in the day for Star Trek toys) and I don't have a lot of disposable cash (but who does?) So, this type of product appeals to me in the same way I like the Diamond Direct Art Asylum Trek toys: I can't afford the EFx or Master Replica high end items, and I feel more comfortable handing my "pretty close toy" versions of phasers and triocorders. Although I'm new here, I recognize a few people I've purchased items from on ebay here, when looking for inexpensive props that still have a level of care or detail you won't find at retail, or items that no company would even think to sell!
So, I understand the great frustration to those who feel let down, defrauded or even "betrayed". Maybe a middle-of-the-road'er like me is the target audience for the hoverboard?
I've never purchased from MattyCollector before, missing out on JLU exclsuives which meant I'd never have a complete set, on not getting the Ghostbusters ghost trap before the "toy scalpers" grabbed them. I don't have confidence that they will be around for much longer. (By the way, I was at an Ollie's store which is a discount and closeout chain, and they a whole bunch of General Zod and Lex Luthor figures and a few of the Matty DC action figures for sale, if it hasn't been mentioned).
Mattel's little specialty section for the adult collector seems to have ticked off the most passionate of their audience, which is never a good idea. I hope those who want refunds will get them, but I bet you could flip your purchase on auction for a pretty penny and then use yoru profit on items made by your fellow RPF crew. It's a great community here, one of which I'm happy just to lurk in most of the time.
Could have been much better but it could have been worse (really). I still want the board and see it in person. I am sure I will be able to sell it here locally (Netherlands) if I want to get rid of it.
BUT what concerns me is the sticker application. It looks very wobbly overall in one of the first pics and the sticker on the rim doesn't look very well applied either. It has been pointed out by someone else earlier.
Point is, I can live with inaccuracies (I will be replacing the strap though)as long as the overall board is well made.
I think you put it perfectly, friend. Seriously, everyone who's pissed should just take a chill pill and re-read this post.Tommunist said:
I pre-ordered the board as soon as they were announced and I'm keeping it. Those who are unhappy, get a refund or flip the board on The Junkyard or eBay. What's done is done...and all the angry posts in the world isn't going to change anything.
-Jonaas
just thought i'd post this, thought it was interesting. I emailed Matty to see how i'd go about cancelling my order if i wanted to, this is the reply i got...
Thank you for contacting the MattyCollector.com online store.
We have received your request to cancel shipment of your order;
unfortunately we were unable to do so. Your order was processed for
shipment immediately upon completion, and no changes were able to be
made.
This is outlined in our refunds and cancellations policy, located at:
MattyCollector.com Online Store - Returns and Cancellations
If you do not wish to receive the shipment and you would like a refund,
you may refuse delivery. We apologize for this inconvenience.
I actually didn't ask them to cancel it, i asked how i would cancel it if i wanted to. Since the email is all in the past tense i replied asking if this has already been shipped?! No reply yet. Not great that you can't cancel a pre-order though if it hasn't been shipped yet
Will be interesting to see what happens with mine. My card expires next month that I used for the pre-order.
Except that it's more than just that though - it's not just a case of being disappointed but a case of being disappointed, knowing it's not what we want, and knowing Mattel are now going to try and force it on us by claiming that we are legally bound to buy it regardless - even though such an act, considering we're talking about a bait and switch. It's this secondary that makes it more agitating and gives everyone who bought one the right to take it more personally than a mere disappointment over it not being what we hoped.Janum said:
The time to let it drop will be when it's all over, which wont be until after it ships. On that note, Alan's posts have been highly flawed as he's claimed that Mattel aren't trying to rip us off here. The fact that as Razorsharp has just proven with Mattel are playing games as opposed to allowing people to opt-out of preorders; trying to scam us is precisely what Mattel is doing here.Janum said:
Last edited by bowspearer; Oct 14, 2012 at 8:22 AM.
Actually wouldn't you guys in the states would be much better off filing a formal complaint with the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) than the BBB?JakeBluesZombie said:
Here we go againbowspearer said:
After seeing the reply razorsharp192 received, it is self-evident that Mattel does not intend to give refunds merely on request.
However, they did not say they won't.
razorsharp192 said:
If the board is different from their original promotional specs, then there is grounds for a refund, and they are not denying you (in general for those who want it) that.
I say 'if', because till I see the final board that is actually being shipped (yep, call me St. Thomas if you wish, its the way I am.), nothing is set in stone yet.
Now for the real crux.
Let's assume that the board turns out to be different from their original promotional specs.
Is this fraud or a scam ? No, it isn't.
It is, in simple terms, the unfortunate reality of "The final product may vary yada yada yada yada ..." disclaimer, made right from day 1.
Are you entitled to a refund ? Yes. And they will give it to you, as they said above. Just refuse the delivery.
Is this the correct way to do it ? Ethically, absolutely not. That is a PR disaster for diehard fans. Mattel should have allowed opt-outs from their pre-orders.
Yet, technically, they are doing nothing wrong I'm afraid. They said the product may vary, and the procedure to get a refund if you feel it is different, is as they said - refuse delivery.
Want the deposit you paid back before then ? Do a charge-back through your credit card.
Notwithstanding what anyone may say, eg that it is fraud, a rip off, a scam, legal suits and the likes, is utter nonsense.
That statement comes from direct experience in the legal side of consumer related matters, spanning over 20 years (European).
Fraud only comes into play if a refund is refused.
And that is because there are zero 'actual damages' - except emotional. Here, no judge will award 1c to anyone who may claim they have been scarred for life because their toy is not 'right'.
It is nothing except, as I said, a PR disaster for Mattel vis-a-vis their diehard consumer base.
Rest assured, however, that they will still sleep at night, and still declare a profit at the end of the year.
This hoverboard is but a drop in their ocean of enterprises.
If one chooses not to accept these realities, then there is little else I can say except repeat my original advice : take it easy, its not worth the ulcer.
Last edited by Alan Castillo; Oct 14, 2012 at 9:09 AM.
Alan, here in the states, the legal proceedings for Bait and Switch are pretty standard, however, the State of California has extra laws on this specifically to protect the consumer. In this case, with Mattel being based there, they face stricter and broader legal definitions which make it easier for the consumer base to pursue such a breach. Just a heads up on this particular issue.
I got someone who was there to take a photo of the underside of the board... Haven't seen it yet. They are posting it soon.
Eagerly awaiting for it. Thanks, man!!!!Clock88 said:
I got someone who was there to take a photo of the underside of the board... Haven't seen it yet. They are posting it soon.
And this is what has annoyed me about Alan's utterly smug and condescendingly dismissive response.tripoli said:
The fact is, as you've rightly pointed out, that both in the US where Matty are based and in my case and here in Australia where I'm based (and I'm sure the same holds true for the EU), this is a bait and switch. That's not an exaggeration - that is a statement of legal fact. Furthermore it falls under the category of fraud.
Yet rather than trying to clarify, we're simply told to "get over it" and blamed for buyin an expensive item to begin with.
Also Alan claims that noone is forcing this on us. Yet if you look at the terms and conditions on the product page for it, it reads:
So there you have it. As Mattel has made no public offer to opt out; it stands to reason that they are trying to hide behind the terms and condition of the preorder until they find themselves in sufficient legal hot water for them to back away.How Pre-Orders Work
When you place a pre-order for your Hoverboard, your bank card will be pre-authorized $120 plus shipping/taxes/fees for each Hoverboard you order. Your bank will "reserve" this amount from your available balance until your Hoverboard(s) ships in November/December, at which time you will be charged. Orders may not be modified or cancelled once they are placed. If you need to change your card information or shipping address, please call Customer Service at 1-877-GO-MATTY. Please note that this product is larger/heavier than the majority of products we sell on MattyCollector.com, so you should expect higher than normal shipping charges. Charges will vary depending on where you are and the shipping method you choose. And yes, the Hoverboard is available for shipment internationally!
Response to BBB Hoverboard Claim on the Matty BBB page:
"The hoverboard sample on display at San Diego Comic-Con was not final and was clearly labeled as such. Matty Collector is aware there is some confusion over this on our forums and is working to address the concern with fans, but we wish to confirm that this was never intended to be presented as final at any time. MattyCollector has posted a video to explain this here: Video: Back to the Future Hoverboard Prop Accuracy - YouTube While we stand by our commitment to this product, and the hoverboard was offered for pre-sale with a no cancellations policy, if he still wants to cancel his pre-order, we will honor his request at this time."
Matty Collector/Digital River Business Review in Ontario , CA
I think if enough people were to cancel their orders by filing claims, they would open up a cancellation option. This isn't worth a lawyers time for class action because the damages aren't really there. Class action would be great if the hoverboard caused injuries or something like that, bait and switch isn't that sexy to attorneys.
This ^bowspearer said:
For those of you content with the bare minimum, it is you the reason companies like this get away with it time after time. You are paying for a product; one that was promised to you as "screen accurate". Now I know we're talking about toys here BUT if someone were to tell you about a product, in detail mind you, and then they delivered an inferior product you would not part with your money. That's not the case here. Here they took your money and because of it, the company has already figured that they won't lose as much money producing what they promised. Instead they will give you an inferior item and still keep all of your hard-earned cash. It's bait-and-switch and a bad business practice. You shouldn't just accept what you are being given. Especially not for the amount of money you have just paid.
At Matty I am a subscription holder and I fully support the subs because I want some of these hard to find figures. The difference with the subs is that you have something to go on. They have made similar figures before therefore you know exactly what you will be getting. Not so in this case. Which is why they think they can get away with it. Not cool.
I have to agree wholeheartedly with this breakdown. I have dealt with Matty for many years and it is damned near impossible to get anything cancelled. Most collectors, who are apparently here also, know that the only way to get out of a purchase is to cancel your credit card. That's hands down the only way to go about doing this. Matty creates these "fear" campaigns to get people on the hook to buy the product saying that it is limited and that they have to meet a certain number of purchases etc etc. But once they have you on that hook they are not gonna let go easily.bowspearer said:
I know that there is a ton of butt-hurt going on in this thread and that I have joined it but damn it! People have to speak up!
California's law specifically:
"17500. It is unlawful for any person, firm, corporation or
association, or any employee thereof with intent directly or
indirectly to dispose of real or personal property or to perform
services, professional or otherwise, or anything of any nature
whatsoever or to induce the public to enter into any obligation
relating thereto, to make or disseminate or cause to be made or
disseminated before the public in this state, or to make or
disseminate or cause to be made or disseminated from this state
before the public in any state, in any newspaper or other
publication, or any advertising device, or by public outcry or
proclamation, or in any other manner or means whatever, including
over the Internet, any statement, concerning that real or personal
property or those services, professional or otherwise, or concerning
any circumstance or matter of fact connected with the proposed
performance or disposition thereof, which is untrue or misleading,
and which is known, or which by the exercise of reasonable care
should be known, to be untrue or misleading, or for any person, firm,
or corporation to so make or disseminate or cause to be so made or
disseminated any such statement as part of a plan or scheme with the
intent not to sell that personal property or those services,
professional or otherwise, so advertised at the price stated therein,
or as so advertised. Any violation of the provisions of this
section is a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county
jail not exceeding six months, or by a fine not exceeding two
thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500), or by both that imprisonment
and fine."
Note specifically they do impose fines AND jail time. Given the statements publicly made and documented, I would be nervous as a spokesperson if several claims were filled and anyone decided to pursue it in court. There is a bit of serious repercussions and given the fan.collector mentality to doggedly pursue, this could turn into something more than just bad PR. Given more Matty has a bad history with the BBB, the courts might lean more to push a stiffer penalty for any such case brought before them.
From the FTC @ Guides Against Bait Advertising
16 CFR PART 238
§ 238.0 Bait advertising defined.
§ 238.1 Bait advertisement.
§ 238.2 Initial offer.
§ 238.3 Discouragement of purchase of advertised merchandise.
§ 238.4 Switch after sale.
Sec. 238.0 Bait advertising defined.1
Bait advertising is an alluring but insincere offer to sell a product or service which the advertiser in truth does not intend or want to sell. Its purpose is to switch consumers from buying the advertised merchandise, in order to sell something else, usually at a higher price or on a basis more advantageous to the advertiser. The primary aim of a bait advertisement is to obtain leads as to persons interested in buying merchandise of the type so advertised.
Sec. 238.1 Bait advertisement.
No advertisement containing an offer to sell a product should be published when the offer is not a bona fide effort to sell the advertised product. [Guide 1]
Sec. 238.2 Initial offer.
(a) No statement or illustration should be used in any advertisement which creates a false impression of the grade, quality, make, value, currency of model, size, color, usability, or origin of the product offered, or which may otherwise misrepresent the product in such a manner that later, on disclosure of the true facts, the purchaser may be switched from the advertised product to another.
(b) Even though the true facts are subsequently made known to the buyer, the law is violated if the first contact or interview is secured by deception. [Guide 2]
Sec. 238.3 Discouragement of purchase of advertised merchandise.
No act or practice should be engaged in by an advertiser to discourage the purchase of the advertised merchandise as part of a bait scheme to sell other merchandise. Among acts or practices which will be considered in determining if an advertisement is a bona fide offer are:
(a) The refusal to show, demonstrate, or sell the product offered in accordance with the terms of the offer,
(b) The disparagement by acts or words of the advertised product or the disparagement of the guarantee, credit terms, availability of service, repairs or parts, or in any other respect, in connection with it,
(c) The failure to have available at all outlets listed in the advertisement a sufficient quantity of the advertised product to meet reasonably anticipated demands, unless the advertisement clearly and adequately discloses that supply is limited and/or the merchandise is available only at designated outlets,
(d) The refusal to take orders for the advertised merchandise to be delivered within a reasonable period of time,
(e) The showing or demonstrating of a product which is defective, unusable or impractical for the purpose represented or implied in the advertisement,
(f) Use of a sales plan or method of compensation for salesmen or penalizing salesmen, designed to prevent or discourage them from selling the advertised product. [Guide 3]
Sec. 238.4 Switch after sale.
No practice should be pursued by an advertiser, in the event of sale of the advertised product, of "unselling" with the intent and purpose of selling other merchandise in its stead. Among acts or practices which will be considered in determining if the initial sale was in good faith, and not a stratagem to sell other merchandise, are:
(a) Accepting a deposit for the advertised product, then switching the purchaser to a higher-priced product,
(b) Failure to make delivery of the advertised product within a reasonable time or to make a refund,
(c) Disparagement by acts or words of the advertised product, or the disparagement of the guarantee, credit terms, availability of service, repairs, or in any other respect, in connection with it,
(d) The delivery of the advertised product which is defective, unusable or impractical for the purpose represented or implied in the advertisement. [Guide 4]
Note: Sales of advertised merchandise. Sales of the advertised merchandise do not preclude the existence of a bait and switch scheme. It has been determined that, on occasions, this is a mere incidental byproduct of the fundamental plan and is intended to provide an aura of legitimacy to the overall operation.
Footnotes
1. For the purpose of this part "advertising" includes any form of public notice however disseminated or utilized.
Man, trip, that's a lot of BS legalese, but the point is definitely in that paragraph--about halfway down. The groundwork for such legal avenues however, would be several claims, filed for FREE with the BBB or FTC.tripoli said:
Last edited by JakeBluesZombie; Oct 14, 2012 at 12:20 PM.
Ok, there you go. Bottom side of the hoverboard thanks to CoolToyReview:
At first sight, holders half-corrected (there are no bumps where screws go but the connections to the battery pack are not perfect), magnets look better, battery pack is awful and looks like full of writings. The screwholes are not right (they were on the look-a-like prototype. This was easy to do it right and they screwed it up for some reason)
Overall... maybe I'll keep the board and do some tweaks to make it right, including a new battery cover in fiberglass or something like that, because this is awful.
Let debate begin....
Last edited by Ojobenito; Oct 14, 2012 at 7:55 PM.
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