Firefly & Serenity gun assessory questions.

I'm hoping to do Zoe's serenity Mare's leg, and I have a few questions.

Where can I get the loop that goes on the left side? (To hand it on the holster)

Where can I get the metal part that goes at the base of the stock? (where its been cut down)

What should I use for the brass scope thing on top, and what should I use, to hold it on?

Also, I'm doing Mal's firefly pistol, and I would like some bullets to lay around both of these guns, to make them seem more real. What type of bullets do I need for these guns? (I realize they probably take different bullets, so I would like to know what kind they each require)

Thanks
Jason

Well, for Zoe's bullets, you could go with dummy m-16 ammo. Most army surplus store sell them and they're pretty similar in size and shape to 30/30 ammo.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jason1976 &#064; Nov 29 2006, 08&#58;14 AM) [snapback]1367637[/snapback]</div>

I&#39;m hoping to do Zoe&#39;s serenity Mare&#39;s leg, and I have a few questions.

Where can I get the loop that goes on the left side? (To hand it on the holster)

Where can I get the metal part that goes at the base of the stock? (where its been cut down)

What should I use for the brass scope thing on top, and what should I use, to hold it on?

Also, I&#39;m doing Mal&#39;s firefly pistol, and I would like some bullets to lay around both of these guns, to make them seem more real. What type of bullets do I need for these guns? (I realize they probably take different bullets, so I would like to know what kind they each require)
[/b]

1. You&#39;re looking for a "saddle ring"
Many lever guns (and replicas) have this on them already. If you don&#39;t have one, your local gunsmith may have one he pulled off a &#39;94 no one wanted. If that doesn&#39;t work, you can order a new from Dixie Gun Works for around &#036;12-20. (Zoe&#39;s is a Winchester 1892, but there&#39;s a good chance any of &#39;em would work, so long as it has the ring and screw stud. Hard to tell without pics. Call up Dixie and explain what you need, and they&#39;ll help you)
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/advanced_sear...rds=saddle+ring
Dixie Gun Works: 1-800-238-6785

2. To the best of my knowledge, this would have to be custom made from sheet steel, as the cut-down stock isn&#39;t a standard size.
(edit -- forget the repro butt plate. Just checked a picture of the original props - both the Firefly and Serenity version just have a piece of sheet steel screwed onto the back. From the looks of it, I&#39;d say around 1/8" thick or less - I&#39;m not sure what gauge that would be. )

3. Again, this is kinda hard as its custom made. I&#39;d look for a .45-70 case, and cut it off to length and use it as a "scope" Of course it would be kind of flimsy - a custom turned "scope" lathed from brass would be better, but spender. As far as mounting it... ugh.

edit -- I originally suggested a magtube-mounted flashlight mount to hold the "scope" - on looking at the image again - that wouldn&#39;t work. You&#39;ll have to go scratch build - I&#39;d suggest finding a thin sheet metal and bending it to shape. (Actually I&#39;d suggest doing the firefly version as the "scope" is kinda goofy, but to each their own). The tipoff is that that the mount on the movie gun seems to wrap around the wood forearm, which is just not something any real-world firearms parts maker would do - they&#39;d have the mount attach to the barrel instead, and inlet into the wood to make room.

HOWEVER.. in looking around, I found a couple flashlights that might work as a scope as well:

This is the closest (actually nicer looking than the original I think, provided the size is about right)
http://www.historichouseparts.com/detail.aspx?ID=1079

And here&#39;s some runners up --
http://www.pocketlights.com/peak_sha...d_keychain.asp
http://www.imagometrics.com/FLReviews/PeakShst_1.htm



4. If you want to mimic what the props actually used:
a. Mal&#39;s gun: .38 special. This is a common round you can find anywhere, even in Wal-mart.
b. Zoe&#39;s gun: .44-40. This is a rather antiquated round, but a gun store should have it.

In either case if you don&#39;t want live ammo, at many gun stores you&#39;re likely to run into folks that make their own ammo from components. You can ask them to just make you up some dummy rounds for display - easy, and cheap. Alternately, this guy makes dummy rounds on eBay:
http://stores.ebay.com/Yesterdaze-Treasures

WOW, thanks for all the info.

I&#39;m also thinking of doing Zoe&#39;s firefly Mare&#39;s leg". The loop on the large loop 1892 Denix, is wrong. (The one on the show was kind of tear drop shaped, but the Denix version is more D shaped.) Is it possible to buy the wright loop, and in stall it on the Denix? If so, where can I find the correct loop?

The only large-loop levers I&#39;ve seen have been for Marlins or Winchester model 94s - neither of which would fit your 1892.

Your best bet I think would be to take a propane torch, heat the lever you have (slowly, I presume it&#39;s zinc or suchlike, and prolly has a low melting temp. You don&#39;t want to melt it, just soften it) and tap it to shape... if you know someone with an anvil, that&#39;d be easiest I think - you&#39;ll need some kind of round "nose" to hammer around. Come to think of it - I bet a section of steel pipe stuck in a vice on a heavy table would be an adequate "anvil" for this application.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jason1976 &#064; Dec 1 2006, 05&#58;34 PM) [snapback]1369712[/snapback]</div>

WOW, thanks for all the info.

I&#39;m also thinking of doing Zoe&#39;s firefly Mare&#39;s leg". The loop on the large loop 1892 Denix, is wrong. (The one on the show was kind of tear drop shaped, but the Denix version is more D shaped.) Is it possible to buy the wright loop, and in stall it on the Denix? If so, where can I find the correct loop?
[/b]

My Grandfather was a vet, (exmilitary that is) and he used to do the 21 gun salute at funerals. I forgot that he used to give me the empty blanks. I have a bunch of them. There about the correct diameter for the 44-40 bullets, but there way too long. I was thinking that I could maybe cut them down, and fabricate something for the led looking part.

Can anyone tell me how long the brass part it on a 44-40 bullets? (I realize this may be a stooped question. lol )

Jason

When I finally find the time (and money) to work on this project, I thought I might have a large loop machined for me. It might not be all that expensive .

Jason

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kaylee &#064; Dec 2 2006, 01&#58;57 AM) [snapback]1369834[/snapback]</div>

The only large-loop levers I&#39;ve seen have been for Marlins or Winchester model 94s - neither of which would fit your 1892.

Your best bet I think would be to take a propane torch, heat the lever you have (slowly, I presume it&#39;s zinc or suchlike, and prolly has a low melting temp. You don&#39;t want to melt it, just soften it) and tap it to shape... if you know someone with an anvil, that&#39;d be easiest I think - you&#39;ll need some kind of round "nose" to hammer around. Come to think of it - I bet a section of steel pipe stuck in a vice on a heavy table would be an adequate "anvil" for this application.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jason1976 &#064; Dec 1 2006, 05&#58;34 PM) [snapback]1369712[/snapback]

WOW, thanks for all the info.

I&#39;m also thinking of doing Zoe&#39;s firefly Mare&#39;s leg". The loop on the large loop 1892 Denix, is wrong. (The one on the show was kind of tear drop shaped, but the Denix version is more D shaped.) Is it possible to buy the wright loop, and in stall it on the Denix? If so, where can I find the correct loop?
[/b]

[/b][/quote]

Why not just buy yourself some 44-40 bullets?

Get yourself a box, and a kinetic bullet puller, it will let you pull the bullet out safely, all the powder will fall out, and then you can put the pullet back in for perfect dummy rounds.

You&#39;ll have to shave down the lead bullet a bit to get it to fit back inside the shell casing, but you should be able to pull that off pretty easily.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mechamaniac &#064; Jan 17 2007, 11&#58;13 PM) [snapback]1399403[/snapback]</div>

Why not just buy yourself some 44-40 bullets?

Get yourself a box, and a kinetic bullet puller, it will let you pull the bullet out safely, all the powder will fall out, and then you can put the pullet back in for perfect dummy rounds.

You&#39;ll have to shave down the lead bullet a bit to get it to fit back inside the shell casing, but you should be able to pull that off pretty easily.
[/b]

Wouldn&#39;t that be kind of pricey? I&#39;ve never bout Bullets before, but I thought they were a little pricey.

I have the empty blacks here and ready to be modded out.

Jason

Lotsa good info from Kaylee.

Would like to point out that Zoe&#39;s Mare&#39;s Leg from Serenity is different from the Firefly version.
The Firefly rig has the lever with the loop for spin-cocking.
The Serenity version has the flat lever and the brass greeblie.

I just finished my mare&#39;s leg replica and it falls between the two.
If I could figure out how to post pictures on the RPF beyond the limit I&#39;d include them,
but I haven&#39;t figured that out, yet.

The Propstore Of London has great pics of Zoe&#39;s Serenity rig
(tho&#39; I can&#39;t remember whether they are sill in the for sale section or the archives).
There are numerous pics on the web of the Firefly version,
both screencaps and pics from a prop display in England.

I have a decent "in-process" shot in my photo gallery on the propcircle site.
Since then I finished painting my Zoe pistol.
I haven&#39;t put those shots up yet.
I use GM semi-gloss black and I find it looks the most like a gun finish to me.

I sent the following description of the process to a fellow Browncoat on
a little of the work inolved in converting a Denix 1892 to a Mares Leg.
And I totally wimped out on the loop-lever conversion.

Re; the Zoe carbine/pistol.
I cut the barrel off with a hand hacksaw, but I cut the stock with the vertical bandsaw.
The replacement buttplate was traced on to a piece of 1/4" aluminum flat stock,
cut out on the bandsaw and
sanded to final size with an industrial belt sander.
I drilled and countersunk the attaching screw holes in the Bridgeport,
although a decent drill press would work fine.
The act of cutting off the barrel creates two problems.
1: Removing the foot long section of barrel creates a huge mismatch between the
stub muzzle end and the barrel remnant coming from the receiver.
I semi-solved that problem by machining a custom, extra-heavy barrel band out of aluminum.
To do that I used a Bridgeport for the drilling and some forming, filed the rest.
I also had to saw the front sight off of the original die-cast barrel band,
then drilled and tapped both the sight piece and the barrel band for a 4-40 screw.
I cut-off a 3/8ths inch long 4-40 screw to make a stud to attach the sight to the band.
I then blended it with JB Weld.
The custom barrel also helped solve the second problem which was:
2: There isn&#39;t really a way to attach the stub muzzle piece to a barrel that isn&#39;t a barrel at all.
The propcircle pics show how the barrel becomes half a barrel under the wood.
I left a little piece to drill
(which actually leads to a third problem, my Zoe pistol is about an inch too long)
but I clamped it to the side of the Bridgeport work table and used an end mill to make the hole
so it wouldn&#39;t walk off and create an oval instead of a hole.
I then turned the end of the stub muzzle end to make a decent fit
inside the custom barrel band and then did the same to the tube magazine stub end.
Last was to drill and tap the tube magazine stub end and the rceiver front so
I could tie the whole thing together with a piece of all-thread.
I refinished the stocks and need to paint all the metal black, yet.

All of this can be done by hand but YIKES&#33;, what a job&#33;

Hope something in this is helpful,
Mike

Oops&#33; also, about the shells.

The vet blanks you have are probably 30.06 or .308 shell casings.
They are actually a good choice to make dummy rounds if you aren&#39;t an accuracy fanatic.
The trimmed cases should give you the right diameter to crimp or glue some .44 caliber bullets in the end.
The real 44-40 rounds are rimmed or semi-rim cartridge;
the 30.06 and .308 are rimless cases.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jason1976 &#064; Jan 17 2007, 06&#58;32 PM) [snapback]1399415[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mechamaniac &#064; Jan 17 2007, 11&#58;13 PM) [snapback]1399403[/snapback]

Why not just buy yourself some 44-40 bullets?

Get yourself a box, and a kinetic bullet puller, it will let you pull the bullet out safely, all the powder will fall out, and then you can put the pullet back in for perfect dummy rounds.

You&#39;ll have to shave down the lead bullet a bit to get it to fit back inside the shell casing, but you should be able to pull that off pretty easily.
[/b]

Wouldn&#39;t that be kind of pricey? I&#39;ve never bout Bullets before, but I thought they were a little pricey.

I have the empty blacks here and ready to be modded out.

Jason
[/b][/quote]

Nope, 44-40 runs about 20 bucks a box...

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=282664

Kinetic Bullet Puller - 13 bucks

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/64836-8050-1636.html


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pennausamike &#064; Jan 17 2007, 06&#58;40 PM) [snapback]1399416[/snapback]</div>

Oops&#33; also, about the shells.

The vet blanks you have are probably 30.06 or .308 shell casings.
They are actually a good choice to make dummy rounds if you aren&#39;t an accuracy fanatic.
The trimmed cases should give you the right diameter to crimp or glue some .44 caliber bullets in the end.
The real 44-40 rounds are rimmed or semi-rim cartridge;
the 30.06 and .308 are rimless cases.
[/b]

If you&#39;re going for accuracy, then 30-06 or .308 is not the way to go. Zoe&#39;s Mare&#39;s Leg fired 44-40 which was a pistol caliber, so as Mike pointed out they would be rimmed cartridges. Be careful if you buy 44-40 NOT to buy the rimless modern rifle version. Go for the rimmed pistol version.

One other thing, if you are going to be using altered real ammo. After you empty the powder, discharge the primer cap, you don&#39;t want one going off by accident. It probably wouldn&#39;t hurt you, but it would probably pop the bullet off, and the noise wouldn&#39;t do anything for your nerves either.

David.

Thanks for all the help guys. What does "rimmed" mean? The blanks I have are from the early 80&#39;s, and the lower half of them looks a lot like the bullets they have next to Zoe&#39;s gun, in the firefly visual companion. They have a groove by the base of the bullet (like a couple of millimeters from the bottom) They&#39;re a hair over 7/16" in width. (12 mm actually)

I was thinking I could just cut down the bullets I have, and use either gray scalpy, or modified gray, domed, plastic buttons for the led part. (see I have all that stuff, and it would be free, where as it looks like doing real ones, or buying dummies on ebay, would be &#036;20-&#036;35)

I like to be accurate when I can, but these are really just a fun touch, and aren&#39;t really for costuming, or anything. I just want to have a few, strune among my firefly money, and other small props, to give that out law (guns and money) kind of feel. There not going to even be close to the guns themselves.

Jason

I honestly think that buying the dummies off eBay would be the best route to get what you want. They&#39;ll be the right kind of cartridge, with all real materials, safely inert, and best of all already done. Don&#39;t get me wrong I&#39;m all for doing things yourself, but the money/time ratio just isn&#39;t good on this one, especially if you just want a handful. (As opposed to pulling bullets and making your own dummies, which leaves you with a tool you&#39;ll never use and way more cartridges than you plan on using, as catridges are sold in boxes of 50).

As to modding your .30-06/.308, well... as already mentioned it&#39;s not that close a match, and I can tell you from experience getting anything like an even cut on a brass cartridge case without a specialized tool (called a case trimmer I believe) is a PITA.

This is one case where unless you&#39;re on a serious budget - just buy the darn dummies. I imagine you could get a small handfull of both types for less than the cost of a tank of gas if you wrote him and said "I need 5 of each, what&#39;s the cost?"

It&#39;ll look better, it&#39;ll work better, and it costs next to nothing.

PS - A rimmed case means just that -- there&#39;s a little "rim" of brass around the base of the case, so that it projects outside the diameter of the cartridge itself. "Rimless" - what you have -- has a groove at the base, so that the "rim" doesn&#39;t project from the base. If that doesn&#39;t make sense, try this simple test -- try to roll the case down a slanted book or something. If it goes straight down, it&#39;s a rimless case. If it curves around in a circle, it&#39;s a rimmed case.

Ah, now I get it. Well, I am on an extremly tight budget, so I was liking the free aspect of my idea, but now that I understand the hole rim thing, I guess I&#39;ll have to go another way.

What do they do with the empties, at a shooting range?

Jason

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jason1976 &#064; Jan 18 2007, 08&#58;17 AM) [snapback]1399753[/snapback]</div>

Ah, now I get it. Well, I am on an extremly tight budget, so I was liking the free aspect of my idea, but now that I understand the hole rim thing, I guess I&#39;ll have to go another way.

What do they do with the empties, at a shooting range?

Jason
[/b]

Depends on the range, but most of them recycle the brass, or sell it to companies who remanufacture ammo.

The problem with a round like .44-40 is that most of the people who shoot it, do so from revolvers or carbines like Zoe&#39;s, and will more than likely keep their own spent shells for home reloading.

Quite true, but there&#39;s no harm in asking.

Try this -- call up your local (outdoor) range and ask when the next Cowboy Action shoot is.
Those folk tend to be right friendly - I bet if you talked to some of &#39;em, you could get a handful of used .44-40 and .38 special brass for the asking, if you&#39;re nice enough. It&#39;d be good manners to offer &#39;em a few dollars though.

Depends on the range, but most of them recycle the brass, or sell it to companies who remanufacture ammo.

The problem with a round like .44-40 is that most of the people who shoot it, do so from revolvers or carbines like Zoe&#39;s, and will more than likely keep their own spent shells for home reloading.
[/b]

Are Mal's bullets rimmers too? I picked up a bunch of 38 rimmers cheep.

Jason

Speaking of Firefly Firearms...I have a sweet resin rep of Mal's shootin' iron but the maker missed the thumb handle on the left side. Is there an existing part I can order to attach to the replica or does someone make just the thumb switch that I could buy to mount on my rep?

greatwazoo42 said:

---

Speaking of Firefly Firearms...I have a sweet resin rep of Mal's shootin' iron but the maker missed the thumb handle on the left side. Is there an existing part I can order to attach to the replica or does someone make just the thumb switch that I could buy to mount on my rep?

Sounds like the wilco version. I have one of those too, and everone is telling me that I will just have to make a lever myself, but I would think there must be something close out there.

Jason

Yup, the very same. Wilco told me he's working on making the missing lever but that was months ago. I wonder if there's a prop shop or gun part retailer that sells the real lever online. The replica is resin so drilling the mount holes is a snap.

I haven't had time to look for a lever yet, but if you look at the hardware store, kitchen store, dollar store, or pretty much anywhere, you should find something close, or at lest something you could mod out to look right.

I was looking at out of those ice-creme scoops with a lever on it, and it was prety close. There are tons of different Ice-creme scoops out there, so if you look around, you might see something that will work. Plus, there usually cheep, and it you could have some ice-creme, to brake it in.

Jason