Every single picture we have seen, shows a dark area. It just seems too unlikely that the same effect has occurred, no matter what the variations of lighting at the time, in every shot of the gun. For this reason I'm gonna have to opt for John's theory. It just seems to make more logical sense than any other explanation. What a curious conundrum!
I'll agree with the weathering theory, which I suggested in a much earlier post.
Phil
Hey Phil! I already posted that pic! In fact it was my first piece of evidence.
Now who's being stubborn. [img]images/smiles//icon_wink.gif[/img]
That is a very nice capture by the way. The outline of the tip is pretty clear.
Here was my enlargement-
LP-1
Nick
Here is a composite of all the butt plate pics presented in this thread so far.
Youc an actually start identifying some of the exact scratches when comparing pics to pic.
The Bradbury- 3 pic is from that first low res pic that Phil posted. It would be nice to have a better version if anyones got it.
Nick
The "distressed area" theory works for me, too. I'm not even gonna guess what that metal replica cost but I think it helped shed some light on the debate, if you'll pardon the pun. Now I gotta dip into my Ramen noodle money to save up for a replica. [img]images/smiles//icon_lol.gif[/img]
EDIT: Can anyone identify this piece? I found it on my hard drive, but I can't remember where it came from. I'm almost sure it's a replica, but does anyone know who made it?
Nick: great photo compilation! Phil and Paul, thanks for the pic!
It shows clearly to me this tree things:
-There's definitely a ring of a clearer metal that rings a darker area (may black or dark grey- I opt for satin black or gloss dark grey). This ring is so clear in photos 1, 3 and 4 that I can't still believe you don't see it.
-There's a kind of flat circle relief between the two screws. I had noticed this in some pictures I had but as I never had a clear image of it I didn't know if it was a hole, a ring or a relief. Now is quite clear is in relief.
-About the LED. I don't understand what you want to point out Phil, because in that photo it looks much like a LED. And I think the stills that should be taken more in account to define it are the ones of the blaster on the floor, where the gun is much better lighted.
I'd like to bring again what was said on the first post:
The dummy guns were molded before the hero prop was finished, so there are a few differences between (not talking about colors now) them being:
-Butt plate differs. The Butt plate on the stunts is a block with parallel sides, has no screws on the bottom. The hero butt plate has the indent for the pinky finger, the back of it follows the curve of the grip frame (thanks Nick) and there are two screws and what seems to be a raised circle.
- On the stunt casting the Steyr clip has no detail or modifications made. On the hero prop the Steyr clip was modified: right where the birds are, a hole for a fifth red LED was made. This hole is framed by a washer of 9mm in diameter.
-On the stunt castings the laser pointer has nothing added neither in front nor in its back. On the hero prop a piece was added at least in front of it (some people believe is an acrylic rod, others a LED), and maybe in its back too.
Sergio
John,
I believe the picture above is a shot of an early Richard Coyle BR blaster. He made several before he and I partnered up on the C&S blaster project.
Even before the C&S, Richard's earlier blaster was one of the most accurate made. Relatively few of them were produced,
however.
Sergio, I'll respond to your post later this morning.
Phil
Sergio,
I agree with all the assertions delineated in your last post.
In regards to the LED: I donÂ’t think the captures of the blaster falling to the floor provide as good a reference as the blaster when seen against the wall in SebastianÂ’s apartment. This is because the gun on the floor is being dropped, which causes the shot to be quite blurry (although it is well lit). The one moment the gun is still is very short. Conversely, the wall scene shows the gun in a very steady state.
Also, given that it has been established that the "dimple" on the blaster buttplate is in relief, I think this further buttresses the idea that the bottom of the plate is "weathered" silver.
Phil
For starter's, I LUV this thread ! I'm taking a HUGE interest in it as i am getting ALL the info I can for construction of my BR Gun ! I was lucky to get an old Doppleganger {spelling??} kit off a Board member who no longer wanted it. I've left it set to one side until I was ready for my FULL attetnion to it ! [img]images/smiles//icon_wink.gif[/img]
I do have two question's tho. Mainly for Phil ?
One, what is the deal about the Grip's ? Did I miss it someplace
{ Getting to be a nice LONG thread ! }
or is thise new info you have going to be posted at a later date ???
Two, I am planning on HEAVILY modifying the kit and I WANT that Bolt action on the Steyr ! Here' my question's, do you have the measurment's to the Bolt on the gun ? Or ANY place I could referance FOR the size of it's part's ?
I have a TON of pic's but nothing to use as a referance for scale ??? I could " quesstimate " it. But, as anyone know's, it's FAR easier to go from a SET SIZE then to EYEBALL it ?!?
Again, GREAT THREAD !!! Keeping it rolling as it's
adding to my knowledge and helping me out TON'S !!!
[img]images/smiles//icon_wink.gif[/img]
The grips are inarguably transparent amber. Although some have offered a tortoise shell variation (which looks nice) the original gun did not have this.
When it comes to the Steyr bolt, I'll need to post length and width caliper measurements taken from my original later tonight.
If I forget, email me at philips@pressroom.com to remind me.
Phil
Thank you Sir !!
I appreciate the time your taking to help me out
on that part of my project ! [img]images/smiles//icon_cheering.gif[/img]
Mabye, just mabye this info will help out any
other guy's out there wanting to do a FULL
BLOWN version of the Blaster ? GOD know's
WITHOUT your help I have NO clue where
I could even get ahold of a REAL one to do
measurement's ! [img]images/smiles//icon_frown.gif[/img]
Again, Thanks !
GOTTA' LUV THIS PLACE !!
[img]images/smiles//icon_cheers.gif[/img]
the pic lighthammer posted matches the kit i had bought a long time ago from another board member.
i think the kit came from japan and supposedly was cast from a stunt gun.
it was cast in only a couple pieces and the end result is a totally static version with no moving parts.
Thanks, Phil. I was wondering if it was a Coyle, but the grips kept stumping me.
OK here is my 25 cents worth:
The picture of the model with the brown grips (At the time we did not know about the abler gripsÂ…) is one a friend cleaned up and painted, and was made from the first runs of the stunt casting made by friends in LA back about 85, this is the same castings I used to make my first runs of the Blaster starting back in 85.
This is not one of mine and is not from Japan. There are a few shots of this model and a couple of others on my web site, www.racprops.com
Darn it now I had to rewatch the film.
Yes in the chase of Zora the bottom led is there. By the way did you see the cocking lever swing out and then down as Deckard takes aim the first time?? Disk 1 frames 41088 to 41096, I can it in my Laser Disk version.
And same Side, frames 41179 to 41191 the full sized flat no finger relief , silver rim black bottom butt plate.
And disk 3, from frame 11400 where Deckard is washing up the gun is clearly shown with the amber grips and the Flat no finger relief butt plate.
Later in the same setting frames 12190 to 12268 you can see a well lighted Harrison, shirtless, the trigger guard is lighted sliver, and the butt plate is dark/ black as he pivots about 45 degrees and you can watch the light pan across the whole gun and across the trigger guard and it stays dark/black all the time. AND there is no bottom led nor hole nor washer in this shot, as with the trigger guard you can watch the light pan across the ammo clip cleanly.
Disk 4 starting at frame 5759 to 5906 hunting Pris, as he reaches the top of the stairs he pulls out the gun, no Led lite on the bottom of this gun. And again a black butt plate with silver sides.
Frame 8796 just after he shoots Pris and is still on the floor, silver edged black bottom.
I will concede that the washer for the Led IS visible on the bottom of the ammo clip in the shot of the gun along the wall, it is very clearly there.
Again as Batty takes the gun from Deckard, sliver edge black bottom. As he gives it back I can see the finger relief butt plate, sill with the dark bottom. Frames 13102 to13140 and as Deckard pulls the gun out of the hole again finger relief black bottom butt plate frames 13225 to 13247. But I also see what looks like the front part of the pistol frame looks painted black with some ware near the butt plate, one person said he thought the front side of the pistol frame was black, could beÂ…
And the famous drop the gun shot, I still see well light grips on both sides, silver trigger guard, and again black front side of the pistol frame and black bottomed butt plate with silver rim, frames16818, 16819 and 16820.
This also shows the loose swinging out cocking lever, which I believe was just loose in the receiver due to having the real bolt being removed and replace with a hollow aluminum tube or tubes to make the two sizes needed to fill the receiver and then step down to the cocking lever and rear cap which I believe was held into the receiver by that extra little round head Allen screw just to the rear of the Styer safety, all which had a slot cut into it to clear the top of the BulldogÂ’s frame and the front large tube had a cut made into the side to show thought the ejection port.
The bottom Led is seen in frame 16817.
But I also see what looks like a green LED in the tip of the side rod; it is the same from frames 16820 to 16831. I do not believe in to the water drop, as I am using a laser disk on a 1000 line 53 inch Sony and as the laser is an analog system with NO digitalization, EACH FRAME is a still and clean and clear as can be, I see a round greenest rod sticking out the end of that rod, that is in 14 stills or frames.
And in his apartment at the end, I can now see the finger relief butt plate, frame 33395 to 33429. And the Led Ring frames 33488 to 33513.
Conclusions, I still believe they had a black bottom on the butt plates. I believe that was done to stop glare during filming. A common problem during filming is to have some metal object reflect light and become a glare in a shot. The common fixes are a dulling paint and then paint it black if the dulling paint doesnÂ’t work.
I also now believe the fifth LED was there during at lease about ½ of the filming with the gun as well as was the finger relief butt plate. They did seem to have problems with the LEDs, the bottom one did indeed die, and these is a shot where the two on the side, one is dimmer that the other.
In fact I now can see that all LEDs were added after they made the stun casting, as I got out my copy of the stunt casting and found no evidence of the LEDs in either the sides of the ammo clip nor the fifth LED in the bottom, interesting is the fact that the two holes for the on /off switch are all ready there.
My guess is after they made the mold it was handed to someone to add the lighting and he made all the changes and may even have tried to add a green LED to the side rod, leaving only the LED behind when he could not wire it up.
I also still believe these was a green 3 mm LED head stuck into the tip of the rod on the hero gun with the fifth Led and Finger Relief butt plate, and that this butt plate has some kind of recess in it as well.
Phil, I would like to ask you if you may share with us clearer versĂ*ons of these photos. I always though that photos of the blaster on the RAC site were from a painted stunt, not a copy (as the one posted before). I was using them to make minor detail adjustments to my C&S Blaster and now I knoe I may have been taken a wrong reference.
If you don't mind me to ask you I'm terribly curious about when you first came to the idea that inside the blaster was revolver?
Sergio
Sergio,
I'll post some clearer photos tonight.
In the meantime, most of the answers to your other questions can be found in the article I wrote about the blaster here:
http://home.pressroom.com/philips/bldrunbl.htm
I explain how it was Richard who convinced me that there was a revolver in the gun, and my gunsmith who identified the pistol as a .44 Charter Arms Bulldog.
Phil
Richard, thanks for taking the time to go through the movie! (by the way-What a Home Cinema!). Quite happy that we agree in many points! Your anti-glare theory for the black butt plate seems quite possible, but maybe they should have choose flat black (it behaves like semi-gloss many times).
Phil, thanks in advance for the pictures.
Before I read Richard's post I was taking some captures of the dvd in my computer, to post them here as proofs of my theories, so here they'll go.
First of all, the famoous (or infamous? [img]images/smiles//icon_wink.gif[/img]) scene where I see that the tip of the pointer is a green LED.
As the light gets darker the silouette of the LED is more clearly visible and it still retains the green tint.
On this one the hole for the fifth LED is quite clear there
On this ones the black buttplate is clear too and the frame grip is gloss black (at least in the front)
On this tree images: the butt plate is black, back part of butt plate follows the curve of grip, the indent for the pinky finger is seen.
Enjoy the pics.
Sergio
One problem is that the photos of the stunt model in Planet Hollywood is that it is a later made casting with some (In my opinion) major carvings and fixes to the then disintegrating mold.
I have held and owned a very fresh copy of the stunt blaster, back in 85, it was what I cut up to make my first runs, unlike all you late comers I held it and remember how it was detailed like, and made my models off two of them.
Sadly this first and best mold only lasted a little while and I am told about 15 to 20 pulls was all they could do, and worst they sold off all copies so they were unable to recreate this model.
The First thing that whent was the front of the Styer receiver, then the front of the ammo housing, and none ever had good castings of the diamond pattern grips, I am not sure if they messed making the mold or that the stunt casting they were working from came with the bad casting of the grips.
The stunt model at Planet Hollywood has many parts reworked and thus IS NOT the one to go by, the pictures of a stunt model with the red back ground on my web site is nearly as old as the original stunt model and is the closes to the real thing there is.
I really like the laser disk for studying props, no digitalization to contend with, but I also cannot do caps with my computer. I need a video capture card to bring it in.
Those last shots of the green LED stay rounder and clear on my laser where they seem to distort on the DVD, I am betting due to the digital process.
And I can step fame by frame, forward and backwards over and over as I like, which I did to see if I could see the trimming or distortion of the LED, and it stayed true thought all the frames.
As does the black bottom of butt plate.
And Damm it I now have to go and repaint a bunch of butt plates with black bottoms, I really was hoping I would be convinced they were silver.
All I got to say is....these photos you guys are grabbing are fantastic!!!! WOW !!! this is FUN!!
Is Coyle still doing the metal hero verson to sell ???
After this reading these post and discussions... I WANT ONE!!!
Dean
Yes Richard, most probably the Laserdisc has a much better resolution. The big problem here is that Blade Runner was one of the firts dvd's to be released, and it shows a lot of pixelization and compression artifacts (in fact is one of the worst quality image dvd that I have-but its Blade Runner!). Maybe the day they release the long awaited special edition (I hope they've found the scene when Deckard reloads the gun-its going to be quite interesting to see!) it will be a new master and a cleaned copy, with image quality up to today's standars.
I always thought the Laserdisc was also digital (same as the cd). Could anyone please explain how it works?
Sergio
Richard, the edge of the buttplate should be beveled. That will provide the silver ring you need.
I still think the buttplate is silver. One day, I'll prove it to all of you naysayers...mwaaaaaa...
I'll agree that there's an LED in the tip of the laser, however.
Phil
Now I will have to retool the butt plate with the finger relief, add the little indenture detail to the bottom, bevel the edge and also try to see if there was two sizes of screws holding the but plate to the gun and get soft green LEDs to put into the rod, and add a fifth LED to the bottom of the ammo clip.
I had just switched to a great one step satin black paint that looks very much like bluing, as well as useing three coats of Alclad chrome to the finish.
So this will be version 4.
I'll go to bed now so I think it would be nice to let you here something to talk about.
Captures from the scene when Deck is washing his mouth and talking to Rachel. Light is coming from up and the butt plate is looking up and there are no shadows casted on the piece, so if silver it would read white on the film. Guess what? read dark to medium grey.
There's a ring of silver, and the darker area is separated from the silver by a darker line. This may mean:
-The darker area is raised (may be an anti-slip sticker)
-The darker area and the ring are separated by an engraving.
pic1
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Have fun.
Sergio
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