11th Doctor's Sonic: "Fatally Flawed" Design? Discuss...

LeAngeSolitaire said:

So you were there by his side constantly, on every occasion that he handed the prop out for demo except for 6 hours? I hate to rain on your bromance but I really don't buy that.

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Dude, slow your roll. While I know it's fun to stick with unsubstantiated beliefs (especially when they are your own) you're just dead wrong in this case. Check your facts. Philip was IN THE BOOTH, right next to Nick for almost the entire comic con. EVERY time I went to the QMX booth, he was there, literally standing right behind the sonics. While Philip needs no defending, nor do his claims, you're just coming off sounding like an uninformed whiner right now. If anything, I'm trying to help you.

If philip says he didn't see them break, take it as truth.

I assume you were NOT there??

Also, for the record, i DID handle the 11th sonic, DID flick it, and it did NOT break.

Rebelscum said:

I'd suggest that since you weren't there, you might consider that you really don't know anything that happened there. You only have heresay and you should temper your comments based on that fact.

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Now THERE is a new idea to the internet!!!! Though I doubt it will gain any traction.

MattMunson said:

Dude, slow your roll. While I know it's fun to stick with unsubstantiated beliefs (especially when they are your own) you're just dead wrong in this case. Check your facts. Philip was IN THE BOOTH, right next to Nick for almost the entire comic con. EVERY time I went to the QMX booth, he was there, literally standing right behind the sonics. While Philip needs no defending, nor do his claims, you're just coming off sounding like an uninformed whiner right now. If anything, I'm trying to help you.

If philip says he didn't see them break, take it as truth.

I assume you were NOT there??

Also, for the record, i DID handle the 11th sonic, DID flick it, and it did NOT break.

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Matt, I wasn't there but if friends tell me they saw something I believe them. Guess someone is lying/mistaken. Instead of arguing the accuracy of these claims why don't we just ask Nick? I think we have established that the sonic doesn't break every time the sonic is flicked but the fact that it does and has with incorrect handling.

LeAngeSolitaire said:

Matt, I wasn't there but if friends tell me they saw something I believe them. Guess someone is lying/mistaken. Instead of arguing the accuracy of these claims why don't we just ask Nick? I think we have established that the sonic doesn't break every time the sonic is flicked but the fact that it does and has with incorrect handling.

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You're doing it again. You're accusing philip of lying. Don't try to weasel around it, that's what you're doing.

Here, let me give you a quick fact rundown, for your reference:

Philip was there almost the entire con, within about four feet of the sonics.
I saw philip in the booth every time I walked by, which was many times.
I handled the sonic, flicked it, it didn't break.
Philip says he did not see them break.
You were not there.
You have second hand info from friends who say they WERE there, and saw them break frequently.

Do the math.

You've got it backwards, by the way. The burden of proof falls on you, as you were not there, and have only second hand info. So far, we've got a few eye witnesses to contradict your claims. Do try to be reasonable.

And again, let me be clear: reign in the veiled insults at respected board members. I understand that you are clinging to your second hand info, though I don't know why. However, the proper way to substantiate your claims is not to attack the word of a respected board member who has contributed A LOT more to this forum than his opinion, but is instead to present credible evidence of your own.

Organic Mechanic said:

I've got an idea! Why don't all of us SS lovers get together so we can just punch each other in the face and be done with it?

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I LOL'ed. :lol Bad Zoot! Naughty Zoot!

MattMunson said:

You're doing it again. You're accusing philip of lying. Don't try to weasel around it, that's what you're doing.

Here, let me give you a quick fact rundown, for your reference:

Philip was there almost the entire con, within about four feet of the sonics.
I saw philip in the booth every time I walked by, which was many times.
I handled the sonic, flicked it, it didn't break.
Philip says he did not see them break.
You were not there.
You have second hand info from friends who say they WERE there, and saw them break frequently.

Do the math.

You've got it backwards, by the way. The burden of proof falls on you, as you were not there, and have only second hand info. So far, we've got a few eye witnesses to contradict your claims. Do try to be reasonable.

And again, let me be clear: reign in the veiled insults at respected board members. I understand that you are clinging to your second hand info, though I don't know why. However, the proper way to substantiate your claims is not to attack the word of a respected board member who has contributed A LOT more to this forum than his opinion, but is instead to present credible evidence of your own.

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Ok, let me put it this way, if your friends tell you something would you call them liars? Because that's what it boils down to. i choose to believe my friends not some guy I don't know. Why are you buying into this? I'm not going to drop it because you want to stick up for your buddy. like I said, let's ask Nick. This arguing the toss is totally derailing Jack's thread.

LeAngeSolitaire said:

Ok, let me put it this way, if your friends tell you something would you call them liars? Because that's what it boils down to. i choose to believe my friends not some guy I don't know. Why are you buying into this? I'm not going to drop it because you want to stick up for your buddy. like I said, let's ask Nick. This arguing the toss is totally derailing Jack's thread.

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If I were Nick, I'd stay way away from this because I think you have an axe to grind, you're not going to believe him and will rather believe your friends as already stated, and Nick can only lose in a discussion with somebody like that.

I'm not here to argue with you at all. I didn't appreciate your saying I called you a liar, thus my reply. I wonder why I even respond frankly.

To address the OP, I'm reposting on the subject from another thread below. Based on my time there in the booth I wouldn't agree the sonic is fatally flawed. It's certainly not as strong as a major league bat, but then again it has to do more:

While baby-sitting my TARDIS, I was with Nick in the QMX booth all during Comiccon when Smith's sonic was handled by countless numbers of people, sometimes very differently than it was designed to be and it never failed. Generally, people were encouraged to be careful, but many weren't and some were told to not be too careful or it might not fully deploy (the reason for handling it quickly). I think the main worry was that it would slip out of their hands and it's not designed for that particular stunt.

The sonic definitely didn't appear to be vulnerable to falling apart unless it was mishandled. Even on the show. Smith definitely puts it to the test nearly episode. It's not hard to image he slips from time to time, or just plain wears it out.

As I recall, the main change that would have been necessary is the way the battery connected, which wasn't user friendly.

Considering Nick's demonstrated skill I saw, the design probably doesn't have much, if any, room for improvement, while still working as needed for the show.

This is completely out of hand.
I was really hoping that because the thread was so absurd it would just die of natural causes but I guess not.

like I said, let's ask Nick.

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You have the balls to come at a guy that is at the top of the industry (and considerate enough to post things he is working on here) and based on blog post from China want him defend the quality of his work. You have got to be ****ing kidding me :angry.

The subject of this thread is not, "I wonder if the slide on the Sonic ever hangs up" it is "Fatally flawed Design".

In every single episode Matt Smith throws the Sonic up in the air spinning, back and forth between his hands, across the room to other actors and the most likely reason you can come up with that the Sonic would break (we do not even know from what he said in the video if he is talking about the hero props or the stunts) is because a design flaw in a part that weighs about 6 ounces (about the weight of two butter knives from you kitchen drawer) is hitting the front of the Sonic. Not only that but if this was the case (and it is not) that a world class prop maker could not solve this problem over the span of two years.

The fact that this thread is here is insulting, embarrising, and really shows the lack of understanding in even simple things when building props.

Ok, let me put it this way, if your friends tell you something would you call them liars?

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Lets assume everyone who has posted about the prop who actually handled it is 100% telling the truth. No one being called a lier. Did your friend have any idea how it got broken? Did the person that stopped at the booth before them try to flick it and hit the floor? I don't think that really matters to your argument does it? If it hit the floor it does not lower the quality of the QMX and show how the bootleg will amazingly overcome this imaginary issue.

There is one Hero Prototype, two Hero Sonics and two stunts that do not open. Two hero props is completely industry standard and would not be sufficient (or acceptable) if a catastrophic failure of the mechanism was happening twice a day. This is common sense.

There is nothing new here. The exact same names trashing actual experts (which I do not claim to be one of) and back door attempts to boost the sales of a banned member at the expense of whoever gets in the way as always in these Sonic threads. I think having to attack the design of the original prop because there is nothing else to attack on the QMX has hit a new low point though. :facepalm

LeAngeSolitaire said:

I'm not going to drop it because you want to stick up for your buddy.

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I would not expect that. However, faced with overwhelming evidence contrary to your assertions, I would think you would do the smart thing and just let it drop.

For reference, it's threads like this and pig-headedness like that witnessed herein that lead MANY valued members or guests not to bother posting. Do you REALLY think that Nick would take time out of his busy schedule to not only read this nonsense, but then try to defend himself to a crowd that will accept nothing except confirmation of their suspicions? You attack Philip, who has contributed nothing but AMAZING builds and talents to this board, while your contribution is your opinions on things you know very little about? Do you see why people would want to NEVER come back here again???

Do the board a favor: go build something. Then post pictures. Then discuss YOUR build and how you did it.


I will leave this thread to you, as it's clear to me that there's nothing to be gained here. I'll also be sure to keep my HD video of Nick's sonics to myself.

Amen....(HD video you say?)

Rebelscum said:

To address the OP, I'm reposting on the subject from another thread below. Based on my time there in the booth I wouldn't agree the sonic is fatally flawed. It's certainly not as strong as a major league bat, but then again it has to do more:

While baby-sitting my TARDIS, I was with Nick in the QMX booth all during Comiccon when Smith's sonic was handled by countless numbers of people, sometimes very differently than it was designed to be and it never failed. Generally, people were encouraged to be careful, but many weren't and some were told to not be too careful or it might not fully deploy (the reason for handling it quickly). I think the main worry was that it would slip out of their hands and it's not designed for that particular stunt.

The sonic definitely didn't appear to be vulnerable to falling apart unless it was mishandled. Even on the show. Smith definitely puts it to the test nearly episode. It's not hard to image he slips from time to time, or just plain wears it out.

As I recall, the main change that would have been necessary is the way the battery connected, which wasn't user friendly.

Considering Nick's demonstrated skill I saw, the design probably doesn't have much, if any, room for improvement, while still working as needed for the show.

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Thank you very much for your input. I really appreciate it. :thumbsup

phez said:

This is completely out of hand.

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I agree. Simmer down, guys, before I start having to report posts to the Mods. Life's too short to get this heated over something so trivial in the grand scheme of things!

I was really hoping that because the thread was so absurd it would just die of natural causes but I guess not.

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Why is it absurd? A few people at various places on the internet (including some members of the RPF) raised a valid concern that I thought would make an interesting topic for discussion. Several folks here at the RPF are trying to recreate this prop, and they may want to know these things.

I think having to attack the design of the original prop because there is nothing else to attack on the QMX has hit a new low point though. :facepalm

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Nobody held a gun to your head and forced you to come participate in the topic, did they? I'd seen a few references to this problem/flaw, and this being THE RPF, I thought "here's an interesting topic of discussion". If you don't like the topic, you're free to navigate away from the page at any time!

I would wonder how long it would take before you chimed in again Phez. I'm not attacking Nick's work or asking him to defend it. It would be cool if he could give an honest answer to the question as it was something that was raised since the first spy shots of the prop broken were published. This was substantiated by someone outside of the production team who has examined the props, who has proven he did, and has been correct in pretty much all the info he has shared. You don't like this person, he doesn't like you, but it doesn't mean he doesn't raise an interesting topic for discussion or make what he has to say an less informative because Phez, he does have interesting stuff to say and share unlike you.

Other poster have said it doesn't matter whether the thing breaks. I don't care, it's a prop and they break. It's a non issue especially if QMx are offering a lifetime guarantee on the thing. Why the hell are we arguing about this? Phil called me a liar because three separate people saw that the prop broke during SDCC. It may have been a fluke or they all saw the same instance, I don't know but the fact remains, the thing breaks. FACT. I don't care if you choose to think it's indestructible just because Nick Robatto made it. It doesn't matter. Many things break.

One final point, I've looked high and low and I don't see any trashing of Nick going on. I see you sucking up to him and I see you talking like you are some kind of expert, but I can't see Nick being bashed so get off the high horse and get over yourself.

but it doesn't mean he doesn't raise an interesting topic for discussion or make what he has to say an less informative because Phez, he does have interesting stuff to say and share unlike you.

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As he is a banned member it should be "discussed" on his blog and not back doored into this community.

One final point, I've looked high and low and I don't see any trashing of Nick going on.

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Read the name of the thread, who designed the Sonic?

I see you sucking up to him and I see you talking like you are some kind of expert, but I can't see Nick being bashed so get off the high horse and get over yourself.

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One thing that drives the builders of this board is the respect of industry professionals that make the props that we copy (if you select to call that sucking up in your world so be it). When people who build nothing show up and start throwing around ridicules accusation you will see the builders get pissed off. We do not not want to drive the pros from out community due to this kind of trash.

phez said:

As he is a banned member it should be "discussed" on his blog and not back doored into this community.

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He didn't raise the issue. There was a question mark since the first published pics. Jack has edited the original post.

phez said:

Read the name of the thread, who designed the Sonic?

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AFAIK it was Dan Walker. Nick built it and I didn't start this thread.

phez said:

One thing that drives the builders of this board is the respect of industry professionals that make the props that we copy (if you select to call that sucking up in your world so be it). When people who build nothing show up and start throwing around ridicules accusation you will see the builders get pissed off. We do not not want to drive the pros from out community due to this kind of trash.

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Oh, I geddit, so this board is where the professionals come to get their egos massaged? Don't be so dramatic Phez. If you want to be respectful, no one is stopping you but please don't be so ridiculous in your statements. There is a fine line between respectful and being a sycophant, and it is a line you seemed to have crossed a long time ago.

I believe another one of the flaws (not fatal, but annoying) is the claws not staying closed. I asked Nick and he said it would stay closed due to sheer friction, though in a number of series 6 episodes, the claws are slightly open and look like they have trouble staying closed for a period of time, or at the slightest movement. I think to remove this flaw they should have had some catch to keep it closed until actually flicked. The toy has this with the button (cos I removed the spring )

Oh, I geddit, so this board is where the professionals come to get their egos massaged?

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I will leave this right here (it is not a win or lose situation for me, the only way I lose is if I can no longer learn modeling tips from pros more advanced than I am). You can not expect people who work in the industry to be drawn into silly internet battles. They come to chat, share there work with us, and give us some cool tips on how they do things as long as it is fun. Once it becomes a drag what is the point in coming here? They simply leave which is perfect if your goal is to never hear the actual stories from the people who were there (Think Dr Who confidential filmed 3000 miles away with no one in the production in it, well that would be fun wouldn't it :lol).

It would be cool if he could give an honest answer to the question as it was something that was raised since the first spy shots of the prop broken were published. This was substantiated by someone outside of the production team who has examined the props, who has proven he did, and has been correct in pretty much all the info he has shared.

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Lets put it this way, how about BEFORE you post something negative like this based on a photo and confirmed by some one 3000 miles away not involved in the production, you simply ask the person who fixed it as fan of there work (which I think both of us are supposed to be). If that very simple courtesy was extended before all of this, this thread would not be here.

Read that last paragraph twice before you post again because that is the way we should be acting here. That is the kind of simple respect that could be extended that I am talking about.

AFAIK it was Dan Walker. Nick built it and I didn't start this thread.

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I ment the mechanisim we are talking about here .

phez said:

Lets put it this way, how about BEFORE you post something negative like this based on a photo and confirmed by some one 3000 miles away not involved in the production,

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Phez, stop being such a drama queen. I didn't post anything negative about the prop or the maker. We know it breaks. The star of the show even confirmed it. Big deal. It's a non-issue. Accept it and let it go. For your own sanity and our's!

phez said:

you simply ask the person who fixed it as fan of there work (which I think both of us are supposed to be). If that very simple courtesy was extended before all of this, this thread would not be here.

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The way I see it, this thread is doing just that. It is a perfect arena for the person who made the prop to be asked publically in the interests of communal education rather than in private, that way these little disputes would not happen, would they not?

Yeah, but remember that people getting a little to crazy about this sort of thing is exactly why Nick stopped posting about the sonic.
I don't see this thread going anywhere good as it stands now, at least not without actual evidence from Nick himself which I don't think we will get.