Oct 19, 2007, 6:06 AM - Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
I know that there is a no live auction rule on the forum, but I have questions regarding the authenticity of this prop which is being promoted as original by Elstree Props - I would be interested in hearing the opinions of collectors here about any insights they may have.
This is a prop that has been discussed previously, and reading older topics, it seems some have had an opportunity to inspect it first hand.
Here is a link to the details:
Elstree Props "Original" Return of the Jedi Lightsaber at Auction
Oct 19, 2007, 6:26 AM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
Too many questions and discrepancies.Bad reputation.Dubious nature of the actual piece.Not a good combination.Replica.Very nice replica but a replica nonetheless.I have a replica ROTJ Luke saber made by Norman Harrison and I wouldn't dream of selling it as he made the originals but it doesn't make it original nor should it ever be claimed to be.Much like this.
Oct 19, 2007, 7:11 AM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
youd need to know the letter from the maker is real, and you can follow it up with your own enquiries.
Cant comment on the bad reputation, but this is a large 'company' who would stand to loose more than they gain by ripping people off.
Lets face it, the kind of person who would be in a position to buy this sabre, would be the kind of person willing to go the extra mile to prove its worth !!!
Sounds amazing though......
Oct 19, 2007, 7:30 AM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
You might be surprised how much money is spent on truly un-authenticated pieces. My opinion on this piece is it may have been made while the film was in production etc. but never saw screen time and should not command such a price regardless. And considering the sellers already tarnished reputation on the community I seriously doubt 30K will make him worry too much more.
Oct 19, 2007, 8:08 AM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
In regards to the original prop market and the prices regularly garnered for questionable and outright fake pieces i think it would be naive to assume that they would lose more than they would gain.I should say 30K is a fairly substantial gain and to trust a piece purely because they are a company and trade on the name of Elstree is risky at best and one of the reasons they continue to trade on that name in order to dupe unsuspecting collectors.I would not trust a letter accompanying this piece anyway.
I would not even be very confident that this piece was made or intended for the production.In the listing he states Daniels remembers waiting outside the cave.What cave?The scene was purportedly to be shot in Kenobi's hut.For me the green crystal is the giveaway.It was not supposed to be green during filming and was originally intended to be blue and was only changed to green in post to prevent the blade blending with the sky on the sail barge.So why would a piece made DURING the production have a GREEN crystal when this was only altered to green after filming and after all props would have been manufactured?Answer:because this piece was not made for the production.
Oct 19, 2007, 9:08 AM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
I wonder if that one was built for the scripted but unfilmed scene of Luke building his new lightsaber in Ben's old home in RotJ. It looks like it was meant to be filmed open with Luke inserting a crystal in it just like the scene was written. Eithet that or a replica built with that scene in mind.
I think it's a beautiful piece.
Oct 19, 2007, 9:18 AM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
It is most certainly a beautiful saber-no doubt or arguments there.Elstree have variously claimed it was intended to be filmed or actually filmed for the Luke saber construction scene which was unfilmed as you say.Bottom line is I cannot see how this piece was crafted during the production therefore making it a replica and not an original piece.A very nice replica.NOT worth £30K however as Lee has also said.
Oct 19, 2007, 9:22 AM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
looks like I would be a sucker then!- I would have expected Elstree.... to be reputable.
What have they sold in the past thats been dodgy?
Oct 19, 2007, 9:35 AM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
Dont confuse Elstree the prop dealer with Elstree Studios. Even though they rent an office space at the studio, they do not represent them.
Oct 19, 2007, 11:05 AM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
Some better close up pics of the control box and I'd be able to settle this debate.
Oct 19, 2007, 11:29 AM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
I have no idea of the provenance of this piece.
However... the pics in the auction do NOT match the pics on Elstree props website of presumably the "same" piece. The detailing is vastly different look at the extension above the control box and also the detailing inside the emitter head.
Of course they could have made several to get the look and feel right before they were signed off on by the prop master or director, if they were indeed intended for filming. Oddly the auction doesn't mention that, but simply implies that this was the piece built for the unused/unfilmed scene.
Oct 19, 2007, 11:37 AM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
Ummm, wasn't Luke's blade originally blue, and hard to film correctly?
This is the Revenge trailer from 82', note the saber is blue, not green.
I dunno, it looks as though they shifted colours after filming, but shouldn't it still have a blue crystal?
Last edited by AndySertin; Oct 19, 2007 at 11:44 AM.
Oct 19, 2007, 11:58 AM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
There have been a few threads here about this piece. In this thread, one poster suggests that there were three of these built.
Some other mentions here and here.
Oct 19, 2007, 1:17 PM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
Just as an FYI, there is another topic Niall started on the Movie Prop Forum discussing this piece:
As Barry mentioned and Mike illustrated on the other forum, there are distinct differences between the saber on the Elstree Props website and as pictured in the Specialist Auctions website.
Oct 19, 2007, 1:21 PM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
Like I posted above, if someone can provide some good close up shots of the control box section, I can tell you for sure if it is authentic. All the tells are in the control box.
Oct 19, 2007, 3:14 PM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
I have no insight about the Elstree saber, but the "cave" thing is accurate.
Daniels was shot outside a cave entrance in Death Valley for an establishing shot that would have used this live action plate and a matte painting. You might have seen this painting, it shows the Falcon and an X-Wing parked in a canyon with a blank space in the painting up on the wall. The cave would've gone there. The interior of the cave, with Luke having a telepathic conversation with Vader and placing the saber in Artoo's head, would've been shot during pickups, but no evidence of that ever having occurred has surfaced. (Hamill has stated he didn't shoot his portion.)
Note that the Elstree guys had contacted T-Bone and provided shots of their saber, and a story about the scene being set in Kenobi's hut. Now, having seen T-Bone's entry, they know it was actually a cave and have changed their story. Something to think about.
We all know the ROTJ saber was a hand-me-down in the form of the shared stunt, with duplicates made to match, so MacQuarrie would not have designed it. It just gets fishier, IMO.
He went on to say via e-mail to me: "Luke's new saber for ROTJ
was made from a rough sketch on a bit of paper by Ralph McQuarrie just saying add a bit, take a bit off, make some fins etc. Once we had one right we had to make two more as spares, but one accidentally got damaged and thrown in the scrap."
Oct 19, 2007, 3:22 PM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
Interesting as I didn't know that so thanks for the information and the details about the matte.TBone's always amazing resource site (perhaps I should pay some more attention to my own links section!).Still doesn't explain why Daniels remembering that would have anything to do with the construction of the saber or the fact that the call-sheet,listing actors,props and the like needed for the day,would have the reminiscences of an actor on it.
Oct 19, 2007, 6:27 PM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
I don't even care about the saber but I think the scene would have been kickass! Why didn't they add this in 1997?
Oct 19, 2007, 7:05 PM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
Maybe because it was never actually filmed.
Oct 20, 2007, 1:07 AM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
Neither was "Jedi Rocks". I'd gladly trade that POS for a CG version of this scene.
Oct 20, 2007, 5:24 AM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
The scene,I am now reliably told,was indeed filmed and even edited apparently.However that does NOT make this piece authentic.In my opinion this piece is nothing more than a very nice replica.That is just my opinion and everyone has to make their own mind up however I cannot urge enough caution when dealing with Elstree Props.Two different sabers on two different sites,questionable reputation and a "guarantee of no further resale" together with provenance that is dubious at best and laughable at worst.
This is now the THIRD "original" Luke ROTJ saber that Elstree have sold or attempted to sell.Are we really supposed to believe that that many sabers got away from the LFL archives?
Oct 20, 2007, 9:24 AM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
So what? Lucas could have easily refilmed it. Didn't Scott refilm scenes using joanna Cassidy in his rerelease of Blade Runner? C'mon, this scene would have provided some continuity between the scenes with Jabba. If it was filmed, I wonder if we will ever see it!
Oct 20, 2007, 9:31 AM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
I'm sure they probably didn't edit that scene into the final because it didn't keep the flow of the film going. At that time, there were not many films that were of long durations in the theaters either. It's all about money. Shorter films make more showings per day... That's why you get the director's cut.
Keeping my lousy nickname
Oct 20, 2007, 10:20 AM - Re: Elstree Props "Original" ROTJ Lightsaber
Including the scene would have ruined the whole surprise with R2 ejecting the lightsaber. I think they did the right decision not to include the scene.
Same with the Jabba scene in ANH-SE - it ruins the effect of the "What a piece of junk" scene, not to mention making Jabba himself something of a mystery until ROTJ.
Last edited by Darth Lars; Oct 20, 2007 at 10:23 AM.
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