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  1. Lucius Fox's Avatar
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    May 1, 2013, 10:09 PM - Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #1

    Hi folks. I signed up to come here and get some input on a project from people who know before I get started on it. I'll try to keep is short and see how much interest there is before I bother to go into too much detail. I am completely serious about this so bear with me.

    I want to make a titanium Cap shield but I'm thinking of doing the older heater shield because it's just so much cooler and best of all much more doable. I saw the thread on the titanium shield that a member here made but can't see the pics so I don't know how that turned out. I've been working with titanium for years and I knew the problem he had before he even described it. Titanium doesn't like to draw which is basically bending in all directions. Also, the pure grade 2 stuff isn't much harder than hard brass and there are alloys of aluminum that would offer more protection. Still, it's an awesome idea that I can't get out of my head so I have to do it.

    The heater shield only curves in one direction which means that I can do it with rollers with no problem but I can also use 6AL4V titanium for a lot tougher shield. I'm thinking 2mm thick and if my math is correct (and it always is) the rectangle I would need to cut a 19x26" shield from would weight just under 6.5 pounds before I even cut the shape. The curve would strengthen it considerably and at that weight I am also thinking about laminating some carbon fiber and ballistic Kevlar to the backside to stiffen it up beyond belief along with a backer of tight weave Kevlar or Nomex to give a nice padded surface.

    And all of that was enough to make me think the project was worth taking on but here's where I got really excited about it. I searched for pics and liked this style the most, http://www.sideshowtoy.com/mas_asset...ress05-001.jpg

    Then I came across this picture, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rtCon_book.jpg
    and I like the pointer design. But something cool occurred when I noticed the way he was holding it like the arm straps were at a 90 degree angle to the usual way they would be mounted so the shield would cover most of the torso. I thought, "dang, that would make quite an offensive weapon. I bet that would knock a few teeth out if you wanted to." So I considered mounting the straps that way on a slightly pointier shield.

    Then I thought about having it both ways. What if the arm straps were mounted on a very sturdy titanium and carbon fiber pivot that would unlock with the push of a thumb lever so it could be quickly snapped into either position? Better offensive capability than simply throwing the thing and hoping it finds it way back to you. Awesome. I'm going to do that!

    One final thought before I wrap this up. Titanium will blue anodize very easy and red can be done under very controlled conditions. I could skip the paint job and anodize the stars and stripes right to the metal. It would have that cool metallic look of the movie version.

    So here's the plan and it goes far beyond just one shield.

    1. Get as much input from real Cap. fans as I can since I'm new to him. I'm a Batman guy and always have been and Captain America was never on my radar until I saw the movies. Movie Captain was just so awesome that I really took notice and my interest in WW2 history made the whole thing very fun for me.

    2.Settle on a final design and build it as best I can. I have carbon fiber and kevlar from other projects so I can do the several layers of kevlar that would make this thing undoubtedly handgun bullet proof with 2mm of 6-4 titanium bonded to it. I have $500 to put into this so I may play around with the ti weight calculator and go with something thicker if the weights come out right. How much should Cap's shield weigh? I assume it's rather heavy and his strength lets him handle it the way he does.

    3. Make it unbelievably awesome and put it up for sale on ebay. How much would something like this go for with nice aluminum ones selling for a few hundred? I don't know but it'll have to be worth the materials cost and then some.

    4. Use that money to buy materials to make and sell several more until I have enough to...

    5. Contact a maker of titanium pressure vessels and see if they can provide some 6-4 vessel heads of the right thickness, diameter and dish depth. Then I can make movie accurate versions from a good durable alloy of titanium. Just out of curiosity, would a flat round shield interest anyone or is the dish an absolute requirement?

    7. And the ultimate goal and real reason I'm doing this, make enough money to fund the build of a kevlar Batsuit with carbon kevlar armor plates using multiple layers of black kevlar cut resistant sleeve material. But that's a whole different post.

    Thanks in advance to anyone who wants to get in on this conversation and help me out with some Marvel knowledge.
  2. Lucius Fox's Avatar
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    May 2, 2013, 12:59 PM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #2

    Gratuitous bump for another thought, I have lots of kevlar and CF from a boat project. Like a few rolls of each. I saw the thread on the fiberglass shield and it turned out beautifully. Now I'm wondering who might like an aluminum shield with about a bulletproof helmet's thickness of Kevlar layers built up on the back side? Should make the whole thing about 1/2" thick and level 3A rated...maybe.
  3. BananaBlitz's Avatar
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    May 3, 2013, 6:11 PM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #3

    Sounds like something to keep my eye on! I like that you're taking some artistic license with this project. Best of luck!
  4. Fly4v's Avatar
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    May 3, 2013, 7:08 PM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #4

    A titanium heater shield sounds like a great idea. I'm always looking for a more durable shield and like your final idea for a real batsuit.

    Here is what I used for my heater shield.

    The drawing I started with:


    The finished shield:


    For the round shield, it has to have a dome shape. Flat shields look strange. Considering the estimated cost it would have to be movie perfect.

    Good luck on this project.
  5. Member Since
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    May 4, 2013, 4:06 AM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #5

    This sounds like an awesome build.. If you want to get your money back from the titanium you might have to wait a while for the right person to come around, but knowing the RPF there will be buyers
  6. RPF Premium Member roblenzz's Avatar
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    May 4, 2013, 2:12 PM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #6

    Very cool watching this one for updates...
  7. Lucius Fox's Avatar
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    May 4, 2013, 4:31 PM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #7

    I keep finding ways to refine this into something I think I'll like even better than the dome shield in Ti. Here's the absolute toughest most hardcore paint to be had in,

    Bright white, Cerakote Coatings: H-140Q Bright White
    S&W Red, Cerakote Coatings: H-216Q Smith & Wesson Red
    Ridgway Blue, Cerakote Coatings: H-220Q Ridgeway Blue

    I have a friend with a knife that was sprayed with this stuff and it just won't scratch. It is expensive since it has to be sprayed and baked like a powdercoat but I think it will be worth it. I'm kind of a stickler for doing projects like this the most premium way possible.
  8. Lucius Fox's Avatar
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    May 4, 2013, 4:40 PM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #8

    Fly4v said: View Post
    A titanium heater shield sounds like a great idea. I'm always looking for a more durable shield and like your final idea for a real batsuit.

    Here is what I used for my heater shield.

    The drawing I started with:
    http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/a...USOShield9.jpg

    The finished shield:
    http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/a...SOShield13.jpg

    For the round shield, it has to have a dome shape. Flat shields look strange. Considering the estimated cost it would have to be movie perfect.

    Good luck on this project.
    Thanks Fly. I want to replicate the movie heater shape and paint scheme since most potential buyers would want that. What's did you use to make that template? Can you give me a length and width of a licensed replica? I'm shopping for Ti sheets today and the cutoff corners may make their way into an Arkham style folding batarang.
  9. Lucius Fox's Avatar
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    May 4, 2013, 5:30 PM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #9

    Fly4v said: View Post
    Considering the estimated cost it would have to be movie perfect.

    Good luck on this project.
    I've been talking to some aerospace guys in my family and they suggested contacting a company that makes titanium vessel heads. Dish heads would be perfect and are the easiest type to form.

    http://dishedheads.com.au/asset_file.../dish_edit.jpg Just have to specify diameter, depth and thickness. And maybe have the braces tiged on.

    It would cost less for each the more I ordered so this may have to turn into a Kickstarter project once I get some quotes done and find out if they can be reasonably priced. I'm just not sure if I would run into any licensing issues with Marvel if I finished them. May have to sell them raw like the spun aluminum shields.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  10. Fly4v's Avatar
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    May 4, 2013, 8:25 PM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #10

    Lucius Fox said: View Post
    Can you give me a length and width of a licensed replica?
    Mine is not a licensed replica but I will get the measurements tomorrow.
    I came up with the template using the image of the 'Rescue' Cap walking away, made the template and then modified a pre-made medieval shield.

    Those Cerakoe coatings look great.

    Will you keep the base color of the titanium for the back of the shield?
    While it would not be movie accurate, I like the color of titanium based on a watch I have compared to the same in stainless steel.
  11. Lucius Fox's Avatar
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    May 4, 2013, 9:47 PM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #11

    Fly4v said: View Post
    Mine is not a licensed replica but I will get the measurements tomorrow.
    I came up with the template using the image of the 'Rescue' Cap walking away, made the template and then modified a pre-made medieval shield.

    Those Cerakoe coatings look great.

    Will you keep the base color of the titanium for the back of the shield?
    While it would not be movie accurate, I like the color of titanium based on a watch I have compared to the same in stainless steel.
    I just ordered the titanium sheet 24"x29" which is what the heater replica specs are. It's .110" thick which makes it 12 pounds before I cut the corners off and will be pretty darn stiff on it's own. I'm going to laminate the same thickness of carbon/Kevlar/carbon sandwich onto the back just to have something to bond the carbon fiber pivoting attachment point that I was talking about. It would be easier for me than trying to get some hardware welded on there and extremely strong. I'm going to use this hexagon CF for the back layer. Carbon Fiber - Fabric, Cloth, Tapes & Tow - Wasp - 3k, 12x18 Carbon Fiber Fabric so it will look great from the backside too. But I think I'm going to skip the white Cerakote and just go with red and blue and the natural silver color of the titanium since I like that look so much on the round movie shield.

    The Ti cost $230 which is less than I thought so I still have more than half of my $500 budget for this build. Got to do the pivoting mount. I've actually shot a .125" titanium scrap piece with .40 and 9mm NATO and it stopped them both flat with a significant dent. The carbon and Kevlar backing bonded to a sandblasted backside will increase that resistance a bit but I'll never make any claims to it being bulletproof just because I don't want some bubba buying it and having someone hold his beer whilst they shoot at him with a .308!

    This is the video that gave me the idea of how to make my Batsuit armor plates. I wouldn't count on this type of construction for ballistic protection without the titanium up front but impact resistance and the ability to spread those forces over larger areas will be off the chart. This is the same application that will go onto the back of the shield and the hardware attachment points will subligate under the layers that bond to the titanium to spread the forces across the widest area. Should be rock solid and under 12 pounds when done.

    I know it's a lot of big talk but the Ti is on the way so no turning back now and there's no part of the process that I'm not familiar with so it's just a matter of time.
    Last edited by Lucius Fox; May 4, 2013 at 10:07 PM.
  12. BoogieBear's Avatar
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    May 4, 2013, 10:59 PM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #12

    Love the concept. Staying tuned....
  13. Fly4v's Avatar
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    May 5, 2013, 11:17 AM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #13

    Quick and dirty. The measurements are in inches. The width's are all actual contour.

  14. Member Since
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    May 5, 2013, 10:15 PM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #14

    wow very interesting stuff. I can see the passion you have about your projects. I am very interested in the idea of a titanium Captain America shield (the round one). I will be following your posts. amazing stuff.
  15. Member Since
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    May 5, 2013, 10:25 PM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #15

    might be a stupid question, but how did you do the weathering and scuffs on the shield?
  16. BananaBlitz's Avatar
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    May 6, 2013, 12:52 PM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #16

    Keep in mind the concept of impact momentum and the benefits of a curved surface in terms of something hitting the surface. While the titanium, kevlar, and carbon fiber are great at taking a punch, all are very stiff and will dent unless you do something to them to increase the amount of time the moving object strikes the sheild or the angle it hits. Both will make it more durable. Basically, add a layer of something cushy and give the metal a slight curvature.
  17. RPF Premium Member
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    May 7, 2013, 10:37 AM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #17

    What titanium grade are you using? From the price I would guess at grade 2. I have grade 2 titanium spinning and we tested it at the gun range. This one is only .1 thk, and stopped everything we shot at it. I have a second spinning that I'm actually make a shield out of still, it's just been on hold as i'm on other jobs. I want to make a grade 5 version, but the material costs alone are jump up over a thousand. The spinning costs for titanium are insane, even with grade 2.
  18. Lucius Fox's Avatar
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    May 7, 2013, 1:57 PM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #18

    Chris Fields said: View Post
    What titanium grade are you using? From the price I would guess at grade 2. I have grade 2 titanium spinning and we tested it at the gun range. This one is only .1 thk, and stopped everything we shot at it. I have a second spinning that I'm actually make a shield out of still, it's just been on hold as i'm on other jobs. I want to make a grade 5 version, but the material costs alone are jump up over a thousand. The spinning costs for titanium are insane, even with grade 2.
    Well, I had some sourced and it turned out to be grade 2 which I didn't want and then I found a piece of 6-4 the exact size I needed that I'm buying today. The beta stuff I already have would be better suited to Batarangs since it's a springy alloy used for knives and hardware. This article talks about why 6al4v it the best armor ti alloy and why the military uses it so that's good enough for me.

    Low-Cost Titanium Armors for Combat Vehicles


    Are you done with trying to get the grade 5 rounds done? If so can you point me to the spinner that you were using? Also, I don't want to step on your turf with the round Ti shields. If you were planning on making more to sell I'll stick to just my one heater shield. I have plenty going on with the Batstuff so just let me know.
  19. RPF Premium Member
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    May 7, 2013, 2:52 PM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #19

    Grade 5 is the same as 6Al 4V. In order to get the best properties out of it, you need to heat treat it though. Grade 2 is a pure titanium, not an alloy like 6Al 4V, so it can't be heat treated and will never be as strong. Still seems to do the trick though. I have not made a grade 5 round version yet, as the material and spinning costs would be well over 2 grand or more.
  20. Lucius Fox's Avatar
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    May 7, 2013, 8:35 PM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #20

    Yeah, I've been working with the stuff for years so I'm pretty familiar with most of the alloys. Used to be a machinist for a company that made parts for Allied Signal and Honeywell. Now it's just a hobby making sculptures and jewelry from ebay scrap. 2 grand for spinning is bad news, I may never get a round grade 5 done at that price. I'm waiting on quotes from several Chinese companies for grade 5 dish vessel heads but something about a Captain America shield being made in china just seems downright wrong to me.

    But there's some good news on the titanium horizon, New Titanium Refining Process Promises Lower Costs and More Efficient Processing | Steel, Aluminum, Copper, Stainless, Rare Earth, Metal Prices, Forecasting | MetalMiner
  21. Member Since
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    May 7, 2013, 10:34 PM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #21

    For a movie accurate, bullet proof titanium shield, I would be very interested in purchasing that, even considering your high cost of production.


    Chris Fields said: View Post
    Grade 5 is the same as 6Al 4V. In order to get the best properties out of it, you need to heat treat it though. Grade 2 is a pure titanium, not an alloy like 6Al 4V, so it can't be heat treated and will never be as strong. Still seems to do the trick though. I have not made a grade 5 round version yet, as the material and spinning costs would be well over 2 grand or more.
  22. Lucius Fox's Avatar
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    May 8, 2013, 5:56 AM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #22

    Incredibleerk said: View Post
    For a movie accurate, bullet proof titanium shield, I would be very interested in purchasing that, even considering your high cost of production.
    Yeah, it just seems like one of those high end sort of items that you see on geekologie and just know people are falling out of office chairs reaching for wallets.
  23. Member Since
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    May 8, 2013, 9:31 AM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #23

    Yeah it's one of those high end items that I have to tell my wife it only cost $100 bucks and I got a really great deal. And being a quality, bulletproof shield it would serve well in the zombie apocalypse, or any apocalypse of some sort. lol. Thank god for talented, resourceful, dedicated people like you for aspiring to make such great items that otherwise would not be available.

    Lucius Fox said: View Post
    Yeah, it just seems like one of those high end sort of items that you see on geekologie and just know people are falling out of office chairs reaching for wallets.
  24. borskaegel's Avatar
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    May 8, 2013, 9:37 AM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #24

    This is absolutely awesome! Watching for updates...
  25. RPF Premium Member
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    May 8, 2013, 9:47 AM - Re: Another titanium Captain America shield... maybe. #25

    Awesome... I work at those companies currently, been here for 11 years now. (Honeywell and Allied merged)

    I would be real careful of the ti coming from China, I know they've shipped a bunch grade 5, and it turned out to not be grade 5 at all, but some random alloy that didn't have the equivalent properties.

    The major cost driver on the spinnings is due to the process and because the process is so intensive, most spinning shops require a minimum order because they won't do just a few. Again, I honestly think grade 2 is more than capable as it is. Still difficult to get good spinnings though.

    Lucius Fox said: View Post
    Yeah, I've been working with the stuff for years so I'm pretty familiar with most of the alloys. Used to be a machinist for a company that made parts for Allied Signal and Honeywell. Now it's just a hobby making sculptures and jewelry from ebay scrap. 2 grand for spinning is bad news, I may never get a round grade 5 done at that price. I'm waiting on quotes from several Chinese companies for grade 5 dish vessel heads but something about a Captain America shield being made in china just seems downright wrong to me.

    But there's some good news on the titanium horizon, New Titanium Refining Process Promises Lower Costs and More Efficient Processing | Steel, Aluminum, Copper, Stainless, Rare Earth, Metal Prices, Forecasting | MetalMiner

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